Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

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L

livingbygrace

Banned
#641
Dec 19, 2009
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#641
aworldexport67 said:
i dont need to provide you a link to a modern day sermon it is what has been taught and believed since Jesus walked the earth Scriptures The Apostles and early Church fathers who studied under the apostles..You deny the deity of Christ that is not Christianity.. I doubt you belong to any affiliation to Catholic Orthodox or Protestant churches they would reject your doctrine outright as Heretica..so no there is no need for me to wait till i meet the Lord to understand that you are outside the faith..You can be right in every aspect of doctrine yet miss the central theme about who Jesus is and be lost to all eternity..your welcome to believe Jesus si a created being but it is not Christian belief..If you reject the deity of Christ you are in no way shape or form a Christian nor saved..that is biblical fact..
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Then please give me one plain scriptrure where Christ commanded anyone to believe he is God Himself, the one true God.
Not a scripture where you infer this is what is meant.
I believe we worship the diety of the Father seen in the son, don't you?

Well the Biblical fact is that Christ plainly stated manmy times that if a person believes he is the son of God they have eterrnal life on that Basis. Please show me in scripture where he added to that

So you believe salvation is dependant on something Christ never demanded anyone to believe

Can you give me one clear cut scripture where Christ said

Unless you believe I am God Himself you can have no eternal life

And are you saying your church does not plainly preach from the pulpit that if a person believes Christ is the son of God but not God Himself they can have no eternal life. Why do they not preach that and tell people plainly it is not a belief that can give a person eternal life


If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God
1 John 4:15

I acknowledge that, why will you not accept it?
 
L

livingbygrace

Banned
#642
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
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#642
BTW

You haven't answered my question. Do you believe that the angel of the Lord is God Himself?
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#643
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#643
Crazy4GODword said:
ok bro just showing, i actually studied on this subject
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and you have done well young man.
some people say study shows a lack of spirituality (carnality and pride they say), and so do not know about Christophony, nor do they look to see what words the English translators chose: the greek often has more than one meaning. and the English language itself has changed since 1611.

begotten today doesn't mean what it used to.

they say they believe in CERTAIN manifestations of God (glossolalia for example), but not others throughout Biblical History.

good job C4Gw....JESUS IS GOD.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#644
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
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#644
LBG,

You are one stubborn fool who continues to live in unbelief. Many have already answered your question before even being asked because they have the Spirit and they understand the nature and doctrine of Christ, who is God and was manifest in the flesh as the Son of God, making an invisible God visible. You have no such understanding nor do you adhere to the same Christ that died and shed His blood for the remission of sins. Those that deny that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh, that is the spirit of antichrist that comes from the world system, which regenerated believers have been translated from and are no longer a part of. Those that have been regenerated by the Spirit have no such testimony that denies that Christ was God in the flesh. To deny that Christ was God in the flesh is to be under the spirit of this age and under the god of this world system.
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#645
Dec 19, 2009
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#645
livingbygrace said:
Zone

Sorry but I have been getting confused here. I know I am not the brightest of people:eek: but if the angel of the Lord is God Himself, Christ was raised above the angels

Does this mean that Christ was raised above God Himself?

But how could he be, you said the Father and son are equal

And if Christ is the angel of the Lord, weren't angels created beings?

You said anyone who believed Christ was created was an idolator and could not be saved

And if God himself is the angel of the Lord does this mean He was created too?

And if Christ and his Father are angels of the Lord then how can either of them be God?

And does this mean that the angel of the Lord sent the angel of the Lord to die for our sins?

Could you explain please
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Could you explain the above please Zone
 
L

livingbygrace

Banned
#646
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
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#646
Red33 said:
LBG,

You are one stubborn fool who continues to live in unbelief. Many have already answered your question before even being asked because they have the Spirit and they understand the nature and doctrine of Christ, who is God and was manifest in the flesh as the Son of God, making an invisible God visible. You have no such understanding nor do you adhere to the same Christ that died and shed His blood for the remission of sins. Those that deny that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh, that is the spirit of antichrist that comes from the world system, which regenerated believers have been translated from and are no longer a part of.

Well as I have consistently said that God was manifest in the flesh of Christ and you know that I am suprised by the above comment

Those that have been regenerated by the Spirit have no such testimony that denies that Christ was God in the flesh. To deny that Christ was God in the flesh is to be under the spirit of this age and under the god of this world system.
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Can you give me a scripture that says Christ was the one true God in the flesh?

And can I ask you

Do you believe the angel of the Lord is God Himself

Just for once give me an answer please Red

BTW

The spirit would not contradict the words of Christ as to the required belief in him to have eternal life

So we can easily know who is being led by the spirit and who is not
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#647
Dec 19, 2009
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#647
Anyway, at least we agree on one thing Red

Kathryn Khulman was mightily used by God in the ministry she was given
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#648
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#648
livingbygrace said:
Could you explain the above please Zone
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been here done this.
if you choose to believe Jesus is a created entity go for it.
you've bene offered more light and truth than most in the cults.
if you're not worried or convicted or even curious, can't help you.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#649
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
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#649
First, a person may be ignorant of the truth so you give them the benefit of the truth and hope they begin to understand. When they do not receive that from you and from many others that testify of the same truth, you think maybe they might be having a hard time understanding, so you continue with them in the truth. But when they insist on another way, then you realize that they are blind and have no capacity to receive the truth because of unbelief in the heart. It would not matter how many verses or passages of scripture you could give them, with full explanations, they would remain blind and opposed to the truth. This is how a blind and stubborn heart responds to the things of God, especially when it involves the Deity and incarnation of Christ.
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#650
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
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#650
Red33 said:
First, a person may be ignorant of the truth so you give them the benefit of the truth and hope they begin to understand. When they do not receive that from you and from many others that testify of the same truth, you think maybe they might be having a hard time understanding, so you continue with them in the truth. But when they insist on another way, then you realize that they are blind and have no capacity to receive the truth because of unbelief in the heart. It would not matter how many verses or passages of scripture you could give them, with full explanations, they would remain blind and opposed to the truth. This is how a blind and stubborn heart responds to the things of God, especially when it involves the Deity and incarnation of Christ.
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Well I notice that YET AGAIN you have no answer to the question asked. I knew it was a hopeless request.

As for your words, I will pass this time.

But I do wonder how someone who believes they have been raised up as a teacher/preacher of the word can never answer any questions put to them regarding scripture
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#651
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
#651
zone said:
been here done this.
if you choose to believe Jesus is a created entity go for it.
you've bene offered more light and truth than most in the cults.
if you're not worried or convicted or even curious, can't help you.
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Well I thought you would duck answering the questions

You are the first person I have heard say that the angel of the Lord is God Himself

So God Himself is an angel?


And Christ is an angel of the Lord

I thought that was the JW belief that you rail against so ,much

But I don't think they would go so far as to say God Himself is the angel of the Lord

But as I know nothing of their beliefs I cannot be sure

Hopefully someone can tell me one way or another
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#652
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
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#652
livingbygrace said:
Anyway, at least we agree on one thing Red

Kathryn Khulman was mightily used by God in the ministry she was given
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The difference between Katherine Khulman and others is that she was humble even though some of her doctrine was way off. She was used by God because she had an understanding about grace in her heart despite her weaknesses and faults. She followed God as best she knew and had been taught, but God never despised her because of her broken and contrite heart. She was kind and loving and forgiven and was a believer that did not think evil of others. In all of her 'charismatic flavor' she operated in that love with one motive in her heart and that was to bless others in any way that God would chose to use her. That is how I saw Katherine Khulman and you will not get me to judge or separate myself from others that I love not matter how much you try.
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#653
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
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#653
Red33 said:
The difference between Katherine Khulman and others is that she was humble even though some of her doctrine was way off. She was used by God because she had an understanding about grace in her heart despite her weaknesses and faults. She followed God as best she knew and had been taught, but God never despised her because of her broken and contrite heart. She was kind and loving and forgiven and was a believer that did not think evil of others. In all of her 'charismatic flavor' she operated in that love with one motive in her heart and that was to bless others in any way that God would chose to use her. That is how I saw Katherine Khulman and you will not get me to judge or separate myself from others that I love not matter how much you try.
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I guess it was just a pity she did not know as much sound doctrine as you do Red

So if you understand grace in your heart will you be used as she was?
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#654
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#654
livingbygrace said:
Well I thought you would duck answering the questions

You are the first person I have heard say that the angel of the Lord is God Himself

So God Himself is an angel?


And Christ is an angel of the Lord

I thought that was the JW belief that you rail against so ,much

But I don't think they would go so far as to say God Himself is the angel of the Lord

But as I know nothing of their beliefs I cannot be sure

Hopefully someone can tell me one way or another
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huh?:rolleyes:
you inferred i said that.
nice try though.

if you weren't so anti-intellect you would look up words like: Theophony or Christophony.

why do you keep asking people to "tell you' things?

you have an aversion to believing Jesus is THEOS, LOGOS, ARCHE, I AM, One with PATER so the only other explanation is you must be proselytizing for a cult.
 
L

livingbygrace

Banned
#655
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
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#655
zone said:
huh?:rolleyes:
you inferred i said that.
nice try though.

if you weren't so anti-intellect you would look up words like: Theophony or Christophony.

why do you keep asking people to "tell you' things?

you have an aversion to believing Jesus is THEOS, LOGOS, ARCHE, I AM, One with PATER so the only other explanation is you must be proselytizing for a cult.
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Seems like you are trying to backtrack now Zone

In post #626 I wrote four of what I consider to be your belifs. One stated that you believed the angel of the Lord was God Himself

When I then said I was glad I had not misinterpreted your views, after you responded to the post, you replied

ME TOO

And who am I asking to tell me things? Just for you to clarify your strange beliefs

So do you believe God Himself is the angel of the Lord or not? Or don't you know what you believe?
 
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zone

zone

Senior Member
#656
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#656
livingbygrace said:
Seems like you are trying to backtrack now Zone

In post #626 I wrote four of what I consider to be your belifs. One stated that you believed the angel of the Lord was God Himself

When I then said I was glad I had not misinterpreted your views, after you responded to the post, you replied

ME TOO

And who am I asking to tell me things? Just for you to clarify your strange beliefs

So do you believe God Himself is the angel of the Lord or not? Or don't you know what you believe?
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LBG:
there are millions of others who believe as you do.
why not just fellowship with them and feel good about your stuff?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophany

zone said:
i don't care about "time as we know it". Jesus is either eternally God or He isn't.

- if Christ is a creature and not the Creator (Theos Logos Arche), it is idolatry to worship Him.

- JWs and Mormons aren't Christians.

- Arianism/Polytheism add to and subtract from what Jesus said about Himself.

- the Apostolic Era miraculous gifts ceased exactly as paul said they would with the complete, once for all delivered body of Scripture. charismatics desire to turn back to incomplete and partial, and in so doing have entered into spiritism.

- God has appeared to and revealed Himself to mankind in many ways, all recorded in scripture. Finally in His Son.
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livingbygrace

Banned
#657
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
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#657
zone said:
LBG:
there are millions of others who believe as you do.
why not just fellowship with them and feel good about your stuff?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophany
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Well I hope everyone notices you did not answer the question.

Is the angel of the Lord God Himself

The answer is yes or no

If you cannot directly answer I will take it you are not sure either way

But I repeat, I don't think the JWS would go that far
 
A

aworldexport67

Guest
#658
#658
Sure i will provide a scripture but first let me ask you this..Can I believe that Jesus was a space alien who was sent by the Father to be born a man and still be saved? Does it matter Who Jesus is? because Jesus is very serious about folks believing who He is for salvation..

Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Clearly Jesus is not created like us..He is from above we are from below....

Jesus clearly says that if you do not believe Who He is you will die in your sins...

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

It matters alot Who Jesus is....
 
zone

zone

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#659
Jun 13, 2010
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#659
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aworldexport67

Guest
#660
#660
What is Jesus nature?..no He is not the Father seen in Jesus..Jesus is God the Son and all over scripture Jesus claims deity and accepted worship..this is without question
 
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