Apostles!
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The bible says they were spirits in prison. You say they were in abraham's bosom. Looks like a contradiction to me.
It says they were in prison, not Abraham's bosom. Abraham's bosom is not mentioned anywhere close by. Who is reading into it?
They were very evil. So evil that God chained them up until the future judgement.
It says they were in prison, not Abraham's bosom. Abraham's bosom is not mentioned anywhere close by. Who is reading into it?
They were very evil. So evil that God chained them up until the future judgement.
Commas were added by men. It properly belongs after "today".
Lk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
IOW "I'm telling you today that you will be with me in paradise."
Again, Jesus was dead for three days and nights. The thief is still dead, but will be raised at the resurrection.
Lk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
IOW "I'm telling you today that you will be with me in paradise."
Again, Jesus was dead for three days and nights. The thief is still dead, but will be raised at the resurrection.
Since when does dead mean something besides DEAD?
Generally, when you're dead, you are not conscious or aware of where you are.
That is not what the scripture says:
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Remember, all punctuation was added by the translators. Grammatically, it can go either before or after "today" and make sense. But the bible teaches that the dead are dead, so the comma has to go AFTER the word "today". Jesus was emphasizing the truth of what He was saying to the thief. "Verily I'm telling you today, you shall be with me in paradise".
Generally, when you're dead, you are not conscious or aware of where you are.
That is not what the scripture says:
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Remember, all punctuation was added by the translators. Grammatically, it can go either before or after "today" and make sense. But the bible teaches that the dead are dead, so the comma has to go AFTER the word "today". Jesus was emphasizing the truth of what He was saying to the thief. "Verily I'm telling you today, you shall be with me in paradise".
When he opened the fith seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained
They called out in a loud voice. How long sovereign Lord, Holy and true until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood
Rev 6:9&10
Who are these people? Where are they? How can they call out if they are dead as you believe dead for people who have left this earth?
He was put to death in the body, but made alive by the spirit, through whom he went also and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built
1 Peter 3:18&19
How can Christ be put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit and go and preach to people who disobeyed in the days of Noah if they are dead as you believe dead applies in this case?
Dead in respect of not being alive on earth, or in Heaven, yes, but not dead as you believe is dead where they await the resurrection of the dead
I will leave it there. I don't think we will agree. I don't agree with your explanation of Luke 23:43 btw
They called out in a loud voice. How long sovereign Lord, Holy and true until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood
Rev 6:9&10
Who are these people? Where are they? How can they call out if they are dead as you believe dead for people who have left this earth?
He was put to death in the body, but made alive by the spirit, through whom he went also and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built
1 Peter 3:18&19
How can Christ be put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit and go and preach to people who disobeyed in the days of Noah if they are dead as you believe dead applies in this case?
Dead in respect of not being alive on earth, or in Heaven, yes, but not dead as you believe is dead where they await the resurrection of the dead
I will leave it there. I don't think we will agree. I don't agree with your explanation of Luke 23:43 btw
It was a vision given to John telling him that those killed during the tribulation would have to wait longer to be raised.
He was made alive by the spirit -after- he spent three days and nights dead. He was actually, fully, dead for three days and nights. He had to be to be declared -legally- dead so He could be the payment for sin.
OK. God bless.
He was made alive by the spirit -after- he spent three days and nights dead. He was actually, fully, dead for three days and nights. He had to be to be declared -legally- dead so He could be the payment for sin.
OK. God bless.
I wonder how those killed during the tribulation called out.
I mean, dead people don't call out to the Lord, do they?
The soul dies only when it is away from God. That does not mean that it has ceased to exist. The second death is the lake of fire, where the souls who end up there are tortured day and night forever. That is dead, but it is not a cessation of existence.
I mean, dead people don't call out to the Lord, do they?
The soul dies only when it is away from God. That does not mean that it has ceased to exist. The second death is the lake of fire, where the souls who end up there are tortured day and night forever. That is dead, but it is not a cessation of existence.
John was very specific that he was caught up into heaven. He did not know if it was in the body or not, but he saw real things, not phantasms. If what je saw is not real, then we need to throw it out of the bible.
The people who are thrown into the lake of fire burn day and night forever, along with Satan and the Antichrist and the false prophet, forever. This too is according to scripture.
When you wake up, I will be in bed, having been up all night at work. But we can continue.
In Christ
The people who are thrown into the lake of fire burn day and night forever, along with Satan and the Antichrist and the false prophet, forever. This too is according to scripture.
When you wake up, I will be in bed, having been up all night at work. But we can continue.
In Christ
A
can you explain Lazarus, dead four days in the grave?
Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
Matthew 11:5
The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
Matthew 17:9
Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”
also as for dead spirits and if they can talk and be perceived. look at Samuel raised up by a medium by King Saul (forbidden by God by the way)
1 Samuel 28:8-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a séance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.”
9 Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”
10 And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, “As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”
11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”
13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”
And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit[a] ascending out of the earth.”
14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”
And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
And Saul answered, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.”
now you have a Biblical example of the dead speaking.
Demonic practices are not said to not exist or not work, they are just harmful for the spiritual life of believers and are forbidden by God. Mainly because demons want to pervert and take control of God's creation and will eventually kill or drive crazy their worshipers. God tells us we can be slaves of righteous or slaves of Satan and sin.
Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
Matthew 11:5
The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
Matthew 17:9
Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”
also as for dead spirits and if they can talk and be perceived. look at Samuel raised up by a medium by King Saul (forbidden by God by the way)
1 Samuel 28:8-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a séance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.”
9 Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”
10 And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, “As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”
11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”
13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”
And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit[a] ascending out of the earth.”
14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”
And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
And Saul answered, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.”
now you have a Biblical example of the dead speaking.
Demonic practices are not said to not exist or not work, they are just harmful for the spiritual life of believers and are forbidden by God. Mainly because demons want to pervert and take control of God's creation and will eventually kill or drive crazy their worshipers. God tells us we can be slaves of righteous or slaves of Satan and sin.
[/QUOTE]Hi Shroom, do you agree that Paradise is the 1000 year reign? The place where Jesus will reign from, on earth in Israel? The reason I ask this is because of these scriptures, it gives us a clue
Isaiah 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.
Ezekiel 36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.
Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
This sounds like paradise to me;
Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Hi, Ananda,
What about him?
I'm not sure why you're posting these. While some have been raised from the dead, they lived out their lives and died. Jesus Christ is the only one raised to eternal life, so far.
That was not Samuel. It was a devil spirit, a "familiar" spirit, so-called because the spirits doing the impersonating are familiar with those they are presenting themselves as. That's why it's forbidden by God. The dead are dead.
Yes. They also claim to be your long dead grandma, even though she died. Devil spirits can impersonate the dead, the people they are impersonating are dead.
God bless.
What about him?
I'm not sure why you're posting these. While some have been raised from the dead, they lived out their lives and died. Jesus Christ is the only one raised to eternal life, so far.
That was not Samuel. It was a devil spirit, a "familiar" spirit, so-called because the spirits doing the impersonating are familiar with those they are presenting themselves as. That's why it's forbidden by God. The dead are dead.
Yes. They also claim to be your long dead grandma, even though she died. Devil spirits can impersonate the dead, the people they are impersonating are dead.
God bless.