Apostles!

[journey41]

[

QUOTE=Graybeard;460459]have you seen the land of Israel lately?
it's happening already, God is preparing the land for the return of our Lord!

[/QUOTE]Thanks Graybeard. I dont percieve Israel to be like the garden of Eden yet!

The people in Israel are not living in peace, they are now surrounded by their enemies. Not one single ally. Even the west is putting pressure on them There is going to be a big war there before Christ returns. Israel will be ruined. I am not puffed up about this but it is in the scriptures. Then Christ will come to stop the war, otherwise all flesh will be killed. He will Christ set up his kingdom there, in Israel, but the borders will change. it will be paradise, like the garden of eden was. Of by hand I think the kingdom is gong to be around 2225 km long and wide.

 

[journey41]

Well, okay, you all can stay on the earth.

I want to live in New Jerusalem with Jesus and with the Father.

Actually, I really want to be one of those who has His name on my forehead, and that I be allowed to serve Him night and day forever. To be in His presence and see His face.

We all want that VW. Theres so many different interpretations and there should only be one. Thats why when Christ comes the truth will flow out of Zion. No more debates or arguments amongst brothers.

 

[journey41]

Well, you said that it will be on the earth, but it does not say that, so we cannot know if it will be on the earth or not, from reading scripture.

I believe that it will stay above the surface of the earth, just this big 1400 mile cube, floating in the air.

But scripture does not say this either.
In Christ,

[/QUOTE]It does say, but not in those exact words you are looking for.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to decieve the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, God and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea (Israelites)

Beast and false prophet thrown into the lake of fire.
Satan locked up for a thousand years.
Saints live and reign with Christ for a thousand years (Rev 20:20)
The rest of the dead dont live again until 1000 years up. (Judgement day)
Satan let loose after the thousand years.
Satan gathering to attack the camp of the saints. (they will be there with Jesus ruling)
Satan is decieving the nations to come side with him. So if there are nations, it must be on earth.
Satan will be attacks the holy camp but does not enter nor succeed.
Satan now thrown into the lake of fire
esus has cleaned up, done his job as a faithful son. He has weeded out evil
2nd Judgement
Jesus has cleaned up this earth, done his job as a faithful son. He has bought more children into the kingdom. He has weeded out evil.
New Jerusalem comes down from heaven. This is God coming down now, not Jesus. Jesus already here.
Jesus hands his kingdom back to his Father.
The earth is melted and even death is thrown into the lake of fire
God will dwell with men.
No more evil will ever exist again.

 

[VW]

Isaiah speaks of a highway, that is in the sky, a golden highway, which only the redeemed will walk on. I believe that this highway goes to the new heavenly city, Jerusalem.

 

[zone]

Actually, it's true. A little research would prove it to you.

2 Tim 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

The first century church grew very quickly, then fizzeled quickly.

And the manifestations and gift ministries are still available, and will be until the return.

Stay ignorant if you want, zone. After all, ignorance is bliss, right?

oh my...........sure thing.
fizzled quickly? why's that? because you know full well the church has not looked for those gifts for 1900 years > so we have to rewrite history.


sheer luck i guess The Lord's will wasn't thwarted because the christians immediately "lacked faith" enough to perform the foundational miraculous stuff.

lemme know when you can do this:

Acts 9
The Healing of Aeneas
32 Now as Peter went here and there among them all, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda. 33 There he found a man named Aeneas, bedridden for eight years, who was paralyzed. 34 And Peter said to him, “Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed.” And immediately he rose. 35 And all the residents of Lydda and Sharon saw him, and they turned to the Lord.

and once again: what is the ultimate purpose?

And all the residents of Lydda and Sharon saw him, and they turned to the Lord.

why we can not honour and give Glory to God for what the Lord did in laying the foundation for His Church (choosing His own vessels) and be satisfied with building on top of what they did i will never know.

Revelation 21:14
The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[Necto]

Ministry of the Apostle means to carry the Word in the power of the Spirit. Ministry of the Apostle is not wisdom but force. The Кingdom is not in word but in power of the Spirit. Being in this grace people are healed, filled with the life of Christ, filled with joy and receive the gifts of the Spirit Who gives according to His will! Ministry of the Apostle brings life instead of endless dead doctrines that deceive listeners and led away from Christ!

 

[VW]

Ministry of the Apostle means to carry the Word in the power of the Spirit. Ministry of the Apostle is not wisdom but force. The Кingdom is not in word but in power of the Spirit. Being in this grace people are healed, filled with the life of Christ, filled with joy and receive the gifts of the Spirit Who gives according to His will! Ministry of the Apostle brings life instead of endless dead doctrines that deceive listeners and led away from Christ!

Every true witness leads to Jesus Christ.

What we must watch for are witnesses who lead to other witnesses.

There is no "once removed" salvation. We either know Him and are known by Him, or we are not His.

Every witness that leads to Jesus Christ is true.

 

[WordGaurdian]

No problem.

A few points.

Not all people have this gift born into their person. The creation is full of the testimony of God and His majesty, but many never see it. When God chooses to reveal Himself to a person, if they recognize the One speaking, then God gives them the inner gift of the Holy Spirit, the inner testimony of God having raised Jesus from the dead. Still, they have not received all that God would give them. There is a baptism of the Holy Spirit, a surrender to His leadership, a desire and a need to become just like Jesus as one walks this world. God will and does answer this desire with power, the power to live a godly life, and to become witnesses to Jesus Christ.

So many believe that this power was only given to start the church, to finish the scriptures, and that then it was taken away. But the goal of a godly life is why this power is still available to us, and to witness to the risen Lord Jesus Christ, in the power of God.

God is in charge, and if He wants to bring apostles back in this day, that is His choice. Same for prophets. I believe that He is doing so, because even though we have the written epistles, the bible; God also desires to have living epistles, people who have Jesus written in them and on them, in and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I look for the day when faith in God glows like a light from His people, love for God which shines so brightly as to light up the night sky like day.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love.

In His love,
vic

I do agree with you that God is in charge. I do not believe people can appoint themselves as apostles or prophets or any other gift of office. Not everyone has the gift of an apostle. But I do believe that each one has a gift of some kind or another. For God is fair and just. Why would He in His infinite rightiousness only give gifts to some people. I do however believe that not all the gifts are the same. Paul makes clear that no gift must be regarded higher in purpose than another for God could easily have made you the other.

But I certainly agree that not all are prophets and not all are apostles but every one has a gift. And that gift is specially designed to aid you. and the other way around. You being specially made with that gift in mind. You are right of course that not every gift's ability and perception is the same. For a pastor cannot observe what a prophet does. However a prophet cannot take care as a pastor can. in the body the eye can see, the hand can grip. The eyes cannot grip and the hand cannot see. Both however are equally needed for the body to function proparly.

Furthermore I don't believe the gifts were ever taken away. We merely had a lack of knowledge. Example the fabled Joan of Arc. Often displayed the characteristics of a prophet. No one called her prophet though. The same goes for a lot of people in history. If you think logically about this. Why would Paul mention the different gifts in his epistles, we learn and study them, but we do not believe that they have any relevance to us today. Why does he mention the different gifts of healing, words of knowledge, etc. Or do we also believe now that God does not heal anymore?

However, this is not necessary for salvation, but to aid. For God is love and the gifts are there to aid.
I must strongly agree with your last statement. I also long for the day when the light of God shines brightly in all men. And we can all unite in the beauty of God's love. It is said that Stephen's face shone like an angel before he died. What a testimony!

Peace be with you friend.

 

[unclefester]

I do agree with you that God is in charge. I do not believe people can appoint themselves as apostles or prophets or any other gift of office.

Why not ? I see it daily here on this forum and in the charismatic circles. It's the new thing today, no ? Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. This is the great and powerful Oz speaking.

 

[WordGaurdian]

I do agree with you that God is in charge. I do not believe people can appoint themselves as apostles or prophets or any other gift of office.

Why not ? I see it daily here on this forum and in the charismatic circles. It's the new thing today, no ? Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. This is the great and powerful Oz speaking.

Hi there. I apologise. I must have expressed myself wrong again. These word games are a bit tricky some times. Ok. You could probably say you are an apostle or say you are a prophet or even say you are a Holy Spirit filled christian. That doesn't mean you are one. But if God made you one by creating you with that gift then you have that gift. Take a look for example at Jeremiah. He was a prophet. But he was a prophet before he was born. God told him that. However only after a few years after his birth was he revealed by God to be a prophet.
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

So yes they can claim to be apostles or prophets but they cannot appoint themselves. Since spiritually they will not be that gift unless they were made that way by God. Their Soul which was forged by God, the part of the soul that contains the abilities and reactions of your gift will not be there. You will not display the characteristics of the gift if you do not have the gift. You can act it. If you know what to act. But there are some things that you will not be able to do, except if you truly have the gift.

If I may use an example from the movies: In Star Wars there are Jedi's. They have certain abilities. Now many can claim to be a Jedi. But if they are not Jedi they are not Jedi. They cannot suddenly become Jedi by slapping their hands together and in turning around three times and shouting at the top of their lungs : "WE ARE NOW JEDI!" LOL. Just kidding.

But seriously God makes us what we are. He designs us. We are not an accident.
He planned us. Every detail in infinite detail. To such a degree that no man can understand the full extend of himself, let alone others.

Peace be with you.
I am but a grain of sand in God's hand.

 

[zone]

No problem.

A few points.

Not all people have this gift born into their person.

born into their person?
you were born a prophet right VW?

which of course means you were born SAVED....God had a special plan for you.

here's some innovative soteriology if i've ever seen it:

When God chooses to reveal Himself to a person,

if they recognize the One speaking,

then God gives them the inner gift of the Holy Spirit, the inner testimony of God having raised Jesus from the dead.

Still, they have not received all that God would give them.

There is a baptism of the Holy Spirit,

a surrender to His leadership, a desire and a need to become just like Jesus as one walks this world.

God will and does answer this desire with power, the power to live a godly life, and to become witnesses to Jesus Christ.

does not resemble biblical soteriology in the slightest, contradicts the Word.

nothing about being dead in sins and trespasses, and of COURSE nothing about hearing the PREACHING OF LAW & GOSPEL from the scriptures.

no, we have God just deciding to "reveal Himself" to a person.

then we have the person "recognizing" the One who is "speaking": - so, naturally we have the image of a man with the gift of prophecy born into his being; to whom God one day reveals Himself in person.

if the prophet recoginzes the voice, THEN God gives the man the gift of the Holy Spirit.

and the Holy Spirit provides an inner testimony that God rasied Jesus from the dead: didn't God tell the man anything about Jesus being God in the flesh, dying on Calvary being made sin though He knew none?

what about His living a perfect life under The Law? did God tell the man WHY Jesus did that? does it matter? one would think if the man was being EMPOWERED to witness, the Gospe message would be reasonably important.

i wonder if while the man was having a personal encounter with God, he was told he was a sinner destined for hell before granting the Holy Ghost? did the man agree? or did it matter?

~

THEN, we are told, the man does get the Holy Spirit...but there's MORE God wants to give people but since they don't want it apparently, they don't get it. our man apparently wanted all God could (but can't) give, so he received a Second Baptism (total unbiblical).

presumbaly this is where his prophetic mission was initiated and he received power from on High to transmit NEW REVELATION. this is the man's mission: to prophesy to THE CHURCH.

the man apparently was told the scriptures are not sufficient and authoritative, canon is not closed, and that the workers need a prophet to tell them what God will now reveal.

~

of course, all of this is wrapped up with the statement that anyone who was not granted their "gifts" (and salvation apparently) in this unique way; anyone who does not receive (seek) that Second Baptism where they "surrender to His leadership, a desire and a need to become just like Jesus as one walks this world " doesn't know that "God will and does answer this desire with power," and so they really, if the prophet is honest and logical, never receive "the power to live a godly life, and to become witnesses to Jesus Christ."

but that's been the NAR teaching all along, hasn't it.

So many believe that this power was only given to start the church, to finish the scriptures, and that then it was taken away.

there's a reason so many believe(d) it: THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

but the NAR is having much success in sweeping that away and injecting this NEW WINE, this LATTER RAINT into the church...because after all: who wouldn't want to "receive the power to live a godly life, and to become witnesses to Jesus Christ."?

and for it to just be PRESTO! a private encounter with a supernatual impartation of a foundational power...amazing!

who needs stupid old Bible study when you can just do get a one-of and you're just GROWING in POWER!

But the goal of a godly life is why this power is still available to us, and to witness to the risen Lord Jesus Christ, in the power of God.

claiming to speak first person verbatim words directly from Jesus Christ (channeling), where He supposedly spews vitriol against His church for her prayers and assemblies is one of the most ungodly things i know of.

but it doesn't seem to daunt any: they LOVE THIS!

God is in charge, and if He wants to bring apostles back in this day, that is His choice. Same for prophets. I believe that He is doing so, because even though we have the written epistles, the bible; God also desires to have living epistles, people who have Jesus written in them and on them, in and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

sounds nice.

to bad it isn't His Will at all: but who cares!

I BELIEVE! THEREFORE it is! (AND I'VE ALREADY SAID I'M A PROPHET AND SPOKEN UTTERANCES DIRECTLY FROM "JESUS", SO NOW WHAT?)

I look for the day when faith in God glows like a light from His people, love for God which shines so brightly as to light up the night sky like day.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love.

In His love,
vic

fruit?
false prophets do not bear good fruit VW.

your doctrines are skewed and unbiblical, but that's OK, since the scriptures are passe.

 

[zone]

OOOPs....here are two more aposltes:

7 Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

The Twelve are His FOUNDATION...surely you agree with Scriptures on this maggie?

the prerequiste or requirements for apostle are having been chosen by Him specifically IN PERSON (the 12), having seen Him in His life and/or Resurrection (Paul).

who also were in Christ before me :

1 Corinthians 15:8
and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

and if you actually spent time reading the scriptures instead of Peter Wagner, you'd know why the others are called apostles, and why when they died the office ceased.

but: wrestle with it all you want to, since you need to justify your beliefs.

 

[zone]

"JOURNEY:
It does say, but not in those exact words you are looking for.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to decieve the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, God and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea (Israelites)

Beast and false prophet thrown into the lake of fire.
Satan locked up for a thousand years.
Saints live and reign with Christ for a thousand years (Rev 20:20)
The rest of the dead dont live again until 1000 years up. (Judgement day)
Satan let loose after the thousand years.
Satan gathering to attack the camp of the saints. (they will be there with Jesus ruling)
Satan is decieving the nations to come side with him. So if there are nations, it must be on earth.
Satan will be attacks the holy camp but does not enter nor succeed.
Satan now thrown into the lake of fire
esus has cleaned up, done his job as a faithful son. He has weeded out evil
2nd Judgement
Jesus has cleaned up this earth, done his job as a faithful son. He has bought more children into the kingdom. He has weeded out evil.
New Jerusalem comes down from heaven. This is God coming down now, not Jesus. Jesus already here.
Jesus hands his kingdom back to his Father.
The earth is melted and even death is thrown into the lake of fire
God will dwell with men.
No more evil will ever exist again"

~

DISPENSATIONALISM REFUTED:
http://dispensationalismrefuted.blogspot.com/2006/05/heresy-of-dispensationalism.html

 

[zone]

Every true witness leads to Jesus Christ.

What we must watch for are witnesses who lead to other witnesses.

There is no "once removed" salvation. We either know Him and are known by Him, or we are not His.

Every witness that leads to Jesus Christ is true.

Luke 24:27
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Mark 4:34
He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.

Acts 28:23
They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. From morning till evening he explained and declared to them the kingdom of God and tried to convince them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.


LOVE FOR GOD’S WORD
Most perfect is the law of God, Restoring those that stray;
His testimony is most sure, proclaiming wisdom’s way.
The precepts of the Lord are right; with joy they fill the heart;
The Lord’s commandments all are pure, and clearest light impart.
The fear of god is undefiled and ever shall endure;
They warn from ways of wickedness displeasing to the Lord,
And in the keeping of His word there is a great reward.
~The Psalter, 1912

 

[zone]

I do agree with you that God is in charge. I do not believe people can appoint themselves as apostles or prophets or any other gift of office. Not everyone has the gift of an apostle. But I do believe that each one has a gift of some kind or another. For God is fair and just. Why would He in His infinite rightiousness only give gifts to some people. I do however believe that not all the gifts are the same. Paul makes clear that no gift must be regarded higher in purpose than another for God could easily have made you the other.

But I certainly agree that not all are prophets and not all are apostles but every one has a gift. And that gift is specially designed to aid you. and the other way around. You being specially made with that gift in mind. You are right of course that not every gift's ability and perception is the same. For a pastor cannot observe what a prophet does. However a prophet cannot take care as a pastor can. in the body the eye can see, the hand can grip. The eyes cannot grip and the hand cannot see. Both however are equally needed for the body to function proparly.

Furthermore I don't believe the gifts were ever taken away. We merely had a lack of knowledge. Example the fabled Joan of Arc. Often displayed the characteristics of a prophet. No one called her prophet though. The same goes for a lot of people in history. If you think logically about this. Why would Paul mention the different gifts in his epistles, we learn and study them, but we do not believe that they have any relevance to us today. Why does he mention the different gifts of healing, words of knowledge, etc. Or do we also believe now that God does not heal anymore?

However, this is not necessary for salvation, but to aid. For God is love and the gifts are there to aid.
I must strongly agree with your last statement. I also long for the day when the light of God shines brightly in all men. And we can all unite in the beauty of God's love. It is said that Stephen's face shone like an angel before he died. What a testimony!

Peace be with you friend.

maybe you should have given this some more thought and study before you either bought into, or deliberately decided to push this unbiblical position.

you are not an Apostle and you know it.

so does God.

 

[zone]

Hi there. I apologise. I must have expressed myself wrong again..

a truly inspired and chosen Apostle (and the apostles were ALL also prophets) NEVER expressed themselves wrongly about their commission or their message.

These word games are a bit tricky some times. Ok...

word games?

i thought you were the WordGuardian.

Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

You could probably say you are an apostle or say you are a prophet or even say you are a Holy Spirit filled christian. That doesn't mean you are one. But if God made you one by creating you with that gift then you have that gift. Take a look for example at Jeremiah. He was a prophet. But he was a prophet before he was born. God told him that. However only after a few years after his birth was he revealed by God to be a prophet.
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. .

you could probably say you were born a prophet like Jeremiah (long before the coming of Christ AND PENTECOST)...what does that have to do with God's Purposes in redemptive history?

is the Book of the Acts of The Apostles open ended?

or is a book about the Acts of The Apostles?

So yes they can claim to be apostles or prophets but they cannot appoint themselves..

happens every day, because some people will always believe and listen to men instead of the Bible...even when the information about where this is coming from is readily available: because who doesn't want POWER?

Since spiritually they will not be that gift unless they were made that way by God. Their Soul which was forged by God, the part of the soul that contains the abilities and reactions of your gift will not be there. You will not display the characteristics of the gift if you do not have the gift. You can act it. If you know what to act. But there are some things that you will not be able to do, except if you truly have the gift.

you are not an Apostle.
you're living in a fantasy, or a deliberate deceiver.
either way, you can't be trusted.

If I may use an example from the movies: In Star Wars there are Jedi's. They have certain abilities. Now many can claim to be a Jedi. But if they are not Jedi they are not Jedi. They cannot suddenly become Jedi by slapping their hands together and in turning around three times and shouting at the top of their lungs : "WE ARE NOW JEDI!" LOL. Just kidding..

oh yes! THE STAR WARS GOD, THE FORCE:

STAR WARS FILM DEPICTS NEW AGE MESSIAH
by Thomas Horn

An important part of New Age theology is the belief that God is animistic or pantheistic and that humans are divine members of the whole "that God is." Animism is the theory of the existence of a principle or Force inseparable from matter and to which all life and action are attributable. Pantheism is the doctrine that the Force totals the whole of the universe and is God. According to New Ageism, Jesus came to reveal this animistic or pantheistic nature of God and to teach humanity how to live in harmony with "the God of Forces," or as George Lucas coins, the Force. New Agers believe that Jesus was a divinely born master who ascended to a place of distinction to live among other Masters of the Spiritual Hierarchy - Buddha , Krishna, (Yoda?) etc. - after illustrating the principles of the Force. ​

According to New Agers the "Force" is revealed during significant times in world history, and modern followers look for the imminent appearing of the next divinely born World Teacher who will, as Jesus did, illustrate the divine Force living within and around us. In this way, New Age theology prepares the world for the coming of the False Prophet and thus the Antichrist.

This is the picture:

* A group of divinely born and ascended masters are in tune with the Force.

* Because of divine birth, the Force lives in the blood of each master.

* Occasionally, a new master is born equally in tune with the Force.

* The new master illustrates how others can live in harmony with the Force then takes his place among the ascended masters.

* Another master will come along at the right time to help us feeble humans.

Some note the unusual parallel between New Age theology and the Star Wars Jedi.

Star Wars Depicts New Age Messiah - anakin / anakim - god of forces The Force - anakin skywalker anakim nephilim connection - star wars​

But seriously God makes us what we are. He designs us. We are not an accident.
He planned us. Every detail in infinite detail. To such a degree that no man can understand the full extend of himself, let alone others.

Peace be with you.
I am but a grain of sand in God's hand.

you are in a lot of trouble.
i would try to repent.

 

[WordGaurdian]

Alright Zone...

Star Wars is just a movie, but if you wish to critically analyze it and see some kind of new age stuff in it, I suppose you could. The same you could do with just about every other movie, including the Matrix, Superman returns and so forth. Me personally I kind of like to see the movies and see good conquers evil. And that is basically how far I take it. But if you want to go and make something out of it, I suppose that you could. Certain movies like SAW and Twilight and Underworld and Vampire movies, hey there I'll agree that it is evil. But most people like to sweet talk that as some kind of romantic story, or "it is ONLY a horror film.

As to the rest. Give me one scripture that specifically state that the gifts that God gave ceased to exist.

 

[NoahsMom]

Apostles! It just struck me funny....star wars, the matrix, twilight.....in the apostles section. Sorry, it does kinda make ya giggle.

 

[VW]

I have been much happier, and much less distracted since I have put Zone on ignore.

There comes a time when someone becomes so contentious that you can no longer listen to what they are saying. As Jesus said, it is better for a man to live in the corner of an attic alone than in a wide house with a contentious woman.

In Christ,

 

[shroom2]

I have been much happier, and much less distracted since I have put Zone on ignore.

There comes a time when someone becomes so contentious that you can no longer listen to what they are saying. As Jesus said, it is better for a man to live in the corner of an attic alone than in a wide house with a contentious woman.

In Christ,

Actually, I think that was Solomon.

But whoever said it, I believe it's appropro.

She's a pistol.