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Jul 3, 2011
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The irony of perfectionism is this: Though it seeks to distance itself from antinomianism, it relentlessly and inevitably comes full circle to the same error.
Well i will just believe what the bible says on the subject, and leave you to your opinions.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Re: I know you wanted 4runner to answer this Zone, buuuuuut...

I know that you were asking 4runner, but I know the answer! and I can't contain it!

What am I worthy of? Well, considering our sinful nature, absolutely nothing.

What have I done? I have sinned.

What do I deserve? To be condemned.

BUT there is a positive side to these answers!! Guess who came and saved us from condemnation and from our sins becoming totally fatal to us? JESUS!! :D And He has given us mercy and He gave us everything we didn't deserve...eternal life, grace, mercy....and much much more.
amen lil-christian.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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It's interesting to me that you asked whether a person could define the difference. Everything Jesus said, every thing He did including; the direction He took, north, south, east and west, Upward, downward, crossing over from one side to the other, using creation in a specific form.... and all this has hidden in it the difference between sin and accidental sin. In His walk, Jesus reveals that law also judges accidental sin in a way I could not see without Him.
The Law of Moses does as well.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Because Jesus loves us.
That does not make us deserve it. Thats why it is called grace. He loved us and GAVE IT TO US. We can never deserve it!

Only a proud man would claim he deserved it. And only because he does not understand what Grace is!
 
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eternally-gratefull

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Yes I fast because i am in love with the one who calls me to fasting...Jesus Christ, but once again I have no religion
The blood of Christ, or at least He thought so. You are worthy of it too.l
I have made Jesus Lord of my life.
I deserve to be called son, king, priest, beloved of my God, or at least that is what God tells me in His word. Is God a liar?... I thought you were sola scriptura, you should know this.​


yes,
not surprised by your answers.
please don't lay claim to sola scriptura.

just take your religion and leave Sola Scriptura out of it.​
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Re: I know you wanted 4runner to answer this Zone, buuuuuut...

You are hraming this girl with a heart for God. shame on you
I would say you are harming her. But she has seen right through you. Seen truth, and found you to be lacking..

God had spared her your phariseeicle gospel. and brought her to grace and truth.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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That does not make us deserve it. Thats why it is called grace. He loved us and GAVE IT TO US. We can never deserve it!

Only a proud man would claim he deserved it. And only because he does not understand what Grace is!
Only a proud man would think He knows more than God, and only false humility says i am not worthy when Jesus says you are. People do this because they do not understand grace
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Only a proud man would think He knows more than God, and only false humility says i am not worthy when Jesus says you are. People do this because they do not understand grace
I am not worthy. His blood is what is worthy; It washed me and made me clean. That is the only way I will enter heaven.

you will never be worthy my friend. NEVER!

If we could ever be worthy. we would stop needing Grace. The fact scripture states Grace mainains us proves we will never be worthy.
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
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Grace is giving in spite of the fact that they don't deserve it
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Re: I know you wanted 4runner to answer this Zone, buuuuuut...

But as you said before, God demands holiness and perfection. And when Adam and Eve messed up in the Garden, well, that went down the drain. And we lost everything. We aren't exactly worthy of a Savior. I mean, it IS our fault we sinned. And so Jesus could have said "You know, I'll just stay up here. It's THEIR fault they sinned anyways." but He said instead "I'll go down there. I want them to be saved from that wretched Satan. I love them." and He went down. We were given grace.
 
Jul 3, 2011
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I am not worthy. His blood is what is worthy; It washed me and made me clean. That is the only way I will enter heaven.

you will never be worthy my friend. NEVER!

If we could ever be worthy. we would stop needing Grace. The fact scripture states Grace mainains us proves we will never be worthy.
And as long as you have this mind set you will never be worthy.

2nd Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Keep refusing to hear God's word and you will never be worthy.
 
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NoahsMom

Guest
Grace= unmerrited favour. Unmerrited kinda says to me, I dont really deserve it, yet, I got it.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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To be who God has called us to be we need to see Jesus as He is as King, as Bridegroom, and as Judge, and we need to see ourselves as God sees us, not as we see ourselves, not as the world sees us, and certainly not as the Devil tries to tells us we are. We need to know who Christ really is and who we are in Christ.
smooth words, but lets remember your real doctrines and mentors, ok?


IHOP & The Latter Rain

Earlier this year the International House of Prayer (IHOP) sponsored a conference in Kansas City entitled Passion for Jesus that was heavily promoted toward young people. The purpose of the conference was to "cultivate intimacy with Jesus."

In the conference's second session, IHOP president and director Mike Bickle preached a message based on an allegorical interpretation of a Matthew 25 parable in which he explained his end times theology and "revelation of the bridal paradigm." Bickle claims that Jesus cannot return until something drastically changes in the church: "He is not coming any day. He is not coming until the people of God globally are crying out in intercession with a bridal identity under the anointing of the Spirit."

If you do not understand what he means by that it is likely because you have read the Bible literally and have never found anything regarding a special anointing that imparts a revelation of a "bridal identity." In fact, much of Bickle's terminology will be strange and foreign to most Christians.

In this article I will show that Bickle's movement is based on allegorized scripture, deeper life pietism, and mysticism, representing a slightly modified version of the heretical Latter Rain movement of the 1940s. Bickle claims that he began his ministry through the hearing of an audible voice of God in 1983 that told him to start 24-hour prayer in the spirit of the tabernacle of David. He further claims that he erected a sign to that effect and that he himself did not even know what prayer in the spirit of the tabernacle of David was, despite that God had told him to establish it. It turns out that it is "prophetic singing prayers." Once they figured out what it was, IHOP was born"Mike Bickle and International House of Prayer: The Latter Rain Redividus,"

The most requested article topic in the past year from Herescope readers has been an in-depth article on the subject of Mike Bickle and the International House of Prayer (IHOP) movement. We received numerous requests especially after our May 1st post on "Mike Bickle's Gigolo Jesus" and our July 17th post "God's Dream?" which examined Bickle's involvement in TheCall and related groups with a clear intent on creating a youth movement Joel's Army.

The opening two paragraphs above are from a new article by Pastor Bob DeWaay, posted HERE, which details the controversial doctrines of Kansas City "prophet" Mike Bickle and his involvement in the IHOP movement. DeWaay pays particular attention to the theological details of the Latter Rain theology, refuting it scripturally. He does not delve into the historical interconnections and associations between Bickle and the Latter Rain. However, he refers the reader to an earlier article he wrote on "The Roots and Fruits of the New Apostolic Reformation" which includes some fascinating history.

We can also refer Herescope readers to Jewel Grewe's booklet Joel's Army, now posted online, which chronicles Bickle's early involvement in what is now termed the "New Apostolic Reformation."

Pastor Bob DeWaay, who is the noted author of Redefining Christianity - Understanding the Purpose Driven Movement, insightfully comments in his IHOP article that:

The elite-minded leaders at IHOP are selling a bill of goods.

They have bought the lie that by imagining "passion for Jesus" along the lines of sensual intimacy that they have ascended into an elite class that will make them like Moses and they will be able to call down the plagues on the world.

They have pumped themselves up into imagining that the Great Tribulation will be the stage where they show off their exemplary spiritual powers and prowess.

It gets truly scary when they call for Christians to send their teenagers to Kansas City to get this same "passion." This is actually happening, so be warned. These young people are being inducted into a reworked version of the elitist Latter Rain heresy. If children believe Mike Bickle they will return home convinced that their parents' faith is totally inadequate. They will think that way because Bickle's doctrine is an attack against grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, Scripture alone, and to the glory of God alone. They will have been taught to add "the revelation of the bridegroom God" which amounts to thinking of Jesus as a sensual lover in order to avoid being one of the foolish virgins whom the Lord says He does not know. The foolish "virgins" are supposedly anyone who does not believe Bickle's false teaching.


The Truth:

"...even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 15b-16)

Herescope: IHOP & The Latter Rain
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Re: I know you wanted 4runner to answer this Zone, buuuuuut...

I would say you are harming her. But she has seen right through you. Seen truth, and found you to be lacking..

God had spared her your phariseeicle gospel. and brought her to grace and truth.

AMEN!
Thank You Faithful Lord