misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,246
6,538
113
#41
None of this has any Biblical basis. Where in the Bible does it speak of baptism having any special power with respect to sin. Baptism is ceremonial. It does not endow any powers, forgiveness or anything mystical on the recipient.

The conflict with Catholics is not with other Christians. it's with the Bible.

For example, can you explain this practice from a biblical standpoint:





I await your Biblical support for this.
Pay very close attention. John the Baptist baptized adults who came to the place of baptism of their own free will. Here is the part that should convince anyone, even Balam's donkey, these were Jews who received John's preaching with joy, and they had been dedicated as enfants. There is the difference, dedication in the TEMPLE, and freewill baptism of adults. Believe Yahweh. Read His Book. The Holy Spirit gives life to the dead words, they become living flesh to nourish yourselves on, Bread from Heaven.
 
S

SantoSubito

Guest
#42
"Misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians." - HUH?

Two or three times a year, some kid in my class says "I'm not a Christian, I'm a Catholic," and then I have to remind them that Catholics ARE Christians. But since they don't seem to understand that, out comes the Venn Diagram of Christianity, with the BIG circle labeled Christianity, with the sub-circles labeled Catholicism and Protestantism within, and the smaller denominations within each and so forth.

My school is predominately Hispanic, and thus mostly Catholic, or at least have a Catholic background, although I wouldn't call many of then practicing Catholics based on the behavior I often see. Apparently they think Protestant = Christian. I'd really like to know where they're getting that idea from.
From the crowd that boldly declares Catholics aren't Christians. So it's been pushed into many peoples heads by preachers (like the "Us Christian folk do this, while Catholics do that' type) and others that Protestant=Christian and Catholic =/ Christian.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#43
AMEN brother, not to mention that even pope John Paul 2 raised Mary up to equal deity status to Yeshua. To be so arrogant as to think that he had ANY authority to do so is pure blasphemy to YHVH.
Wow. You really don't understand even the most basic of Catholic theology if you honestly think that John Paul II considered the Theotokos equal to God.
Seriously, where do people get this? Even when I was a hard core anti-Catholic I knew they didn't consider Mary equal to Jesus.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,246
6,538
113
#44
Wow. You really don't understand even the most basic of Catholic theology if you honestly think that John Paul II considered the Theotokos equal to God.
Seriously, where do people get this? Even when I was a hard core anti-Catholic I knew they didn't consider Mary equal to Jesus.
When a person prays to anything other than God, that person is committing idolatry. If that person claims to be a follower of Yeshua, Jesus Christ, that person is committing the abomination of apostasy. It is quite simple. One has no need of THEOLOGY in order to love Yeshua and be saved. Theologies are for those who are filled with knowledge. I do refer to knowledge without Yahweh.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,086
190
63
#45
If the catholic church was of Almighty Yahvah God then they would not change/break his commandments.

It really is a way to deceive those that seek Salvation through Yahshua the Messiah.

They were losing control, and combined paganism with the truth.

They forced people to accept them in the beginning, now people willfully join them....
This shows how the truth of ALmighty Yahvah God took second place to people.

Below is the Ten Commandments, 2,3,4 hang on the first Commandment, can you keep the first while breaking the next three?


I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

17 Thou shalt not kill.

18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.

19 Neither shalt thou steal.

20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,246
6,538
113
#46
If the catholic church was of Almighty Yahvah God then they would not change/break his commandments.

It really is a way to deceive those that seek Salvation through Yahshua the Messiah.

They were losing control, and combined paganism with the truth.

They forced people to accept them in the beginning, now people willfully join them....
This shows how the truth of ALmighty Yahvah God took second place to people.

Below is the Ten Commandments, 2,3,4 hang on the first Commandment, can you keep the first while breaking the next three?


I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

17 Thou shalt not kill.

18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.

19 Neither shalt thou steal.

20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
I can and do say AMEN to that....
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47
It is actually quite simple.

God said the penalty of sin is death. The GIFT of God is life.

Anyone who teaches that life can be had only through a sacramental system of works is teaching a false gospel. be it catholic or protestant. They have erred in the way of cain, and babylon, and all who have followed the lie of satan that God can restore man only through his deeds. and that somehow. be doing these works, we can be made right with God.

as for all the other doctrines. if the gospel is incorrect. the rest does not matter.

The wage (result) of sin is death. the gift of God is eternal life.

the penalty of sin is not taking the eucharist, being baptized, making penance or any other sacramental dead. it is death. Only death can remove the penalty of sin. not these other works.
 
May 18, 2011
1,815
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#48
Wow. You really don't understand even the most basic of Catholic theology if you honestly think that John Paul II considered the Theotokos equal to God.
Seriously, where do people get this? Even when I was a hard core anti-Catholic I knew they didn't consider Mary equal to Jesus.
I don't know what you read. But it was ALL over the media before he died that he raised Mary to equal status as Jesus. He even had the letter M engraved on his casket to honor her.
 
May 18, 2011
1,815
10
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#49
Here's some proof for you dscherck,


The Paganisation of the Christianity of the Roman Catholics really started when the Roman emperor Constantine declared the Catholic Church as the only lawful religion of the empire in 313 AD declaring himself the Bishop of the church, ordained by God. This declaration opened the Roman Catholicism's door to all sort of symbiosis between Christianity and Paganism, such as Diana/Mary.


The direct result of that decision is clearly seen even in these modern days.

Well, then: is Mary co-redemptrix, mediatrix, and advocate? The Biblical and Scriptural answerer is a resounding - NO.
Follows here a collection of declarations by men of the Roman Catholic Church:

250 - 350: St. Antonius: "All graces that have ever been bestowed on men, all came through Mary."

1090 - 1153 St. Bernard: ("[Mary is called] the gate of heaven, because no one can enter that blessed kingdom without passing through her."

1221 – 1274 St. Bonaventure : "As the moon, which stands between the sun and the earth, transmits to this latter whatever it receives from the former, so does Mary pour out upon us who are in this world the heavenly graces that she receives from the divine sun of justice."

1
1750: Alphonsus Mary de Liguori, canonized as Saint Alphonsus in 1839, wrote a book "The Glories of Mary." It continues to be published today, under various church imprimaturs. Various chapters in the book are titled: "Mary our Help," "Mary our Mediatress," "Mary our Advocate," etc. 1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast.

1964-NOV-21: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II, and "Solemnly promulgated by Holiness Pope Paul VI" states, in part: "Rightly, therefore, the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God, but as freely cooperating in the work of man’s salvation through faith and obedience. For as St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ...'death through Eve, life through Mary.' This union of the mother with the son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death"
"Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led into their blessed home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress and Mediatrix."
"...the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix. This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator."
"For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."
1985: Pope John Paul II recognized Mary as co-redemptrix" during a speech in Guayaquil, Ecuador. He said, in part, "Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity...In fact Mary’s role as Co-redemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son."

1987-MAR-25: In his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, Pope John Paul II "referred to Mary as 'Mediatrix' three times, and as 'Advocate' twice."

1997-APR-9: During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus: "Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity...In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood, which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs."

You were doing better when you were anti-catholic. I suggest you return to that and get out of the bride of satan while you still can.
 
C

cedaffin

Guest
#50
If you believe in the “Nicene Creed” you are a member of the universal church; the body of Christ.

But our likes and personality’s are different.
The different denominations, Catholic, Baptist, and so on, are so we can fellowship with a group of people that are like-minded and match our own consistency.
I enjoy mingling with spear fishermen and would not enjoy mingling with my wife’s sewing group. Some guy’s will get together to watch football – others gather to go hunting. Same with the different denominations.
Our mission is to worship the Great Creator, His Son Lord and Savior and the wonderful Holy Spirit.
And
To help our fellow human, God’s image.
True - infant baptism is pointless and I do not feel one should invoke a Saint. But I believe God says “Go ahead and baptize the infants. Roll on the floor and burn incense. Whatever makes you feel good as long as you keep My Ten Commandments. All I insist is to love Me and worship Me and feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, and clothing to the naked; visit the sick; showing yourselves to those who are in prison, help them. “
My wife was a Methodist all her life. She went to a Catholic service, came home and said “I have found where I belong.” Well…. I went to a service and it just did not excite me. I was not in my like-kind group. But I am very impressed with her church. How much they give and help the community with food, clothing, shelter and much other.
I feel this is all God ever wanted from us. All the other denominational ceremony’s besides the Eucharist – “whatever”
 
C

cedaffin

Guest
#51
Side note: As we all agree - faith alone gets you into the new kingdom to come.
But
Works are very very important.
“Works” build up treasures for you, waiting for you when you arrive. Do you want to live in a tent in the desert or a mansion with a pool on the ocean with a golf course in the backyard.
 
R

rainacorn

Guest
#52
Side note: As we all agree - faith alone gets you into the new kingdom to come.
But
Works are very very important.
“Works” build up treasures for you, waiting for you when you arrive. Do you want to live in a tent in the desert or a mansion with a pool on the ocean with a golf course in the backyard.
I'd rather live in a cardboard box in heaven than a mansion in hell.

I get what you're saying, though. It's a distinction that keeps being made repeatedly even though the first part is the only part that REALLY matters. By grace, through faith, we are saved. Period.
 
Feb 10, 2008
3,371
16
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#53
I'd rather live in a cardboard box in heaven than a mansion in hell.

I get what you're saying, though. It's a distinction that keeps being made repeatedly even though the first part is the only part that REALLY matters. By grace, through faith, we are saved. Period.
I tend to agree with you. Personally I have no desire for treasures. God dropped Adam and Eve in a garden, together, and with Him. That sounds like all the treasure I would ever need.
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#54
I don't know what you read. But it was ALL over the media before he died that he raised Mary to equal status as Jesus. He even had the letter M engraved on his casket to honor her.
Yeah, you definitely don't understand the basics of Catholic theology. Trust me. Mary is not, nor has she ever been considered equal in status to Jesus. That is a heresy and is strongly condemned by the Catholic Church. As far as trusting the media on religious issues? Seriously, think about it. Would you trust the mainstream media to accurately depict what your church teaches?
 

dscherck

Banned [Reason: persistent, ongoing Catholic heres
Aug 3, 2009
1,272
3
0
#55
If the catholic church was of Almighty Yahvah God then they would not change/break his commandments.

It really is a way to deceive those that seek Salvation through Yahshua the Messiah.

They were losing control, and combined paganism with the truth.

They forced people to accept them in the beginning, now people willfully join them....
This shows how the truth of ALmighty Yahvah God took second place to people.

Below is the Ten Commandments, 2,3,4 hang on the first Commandment, can you keep the first while breaking the next three?


I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

17 Thou shalt not kill.

18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.

19 Neither shalt thou steal.

20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Quick question for you....

I count 14 statements. Who determines the numbering of the 10 commandments?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#56
Quick question for you....

I count 14 statements. Who determines the numbering of the 10 commandments?
the real question needs to be ask as to which commandment was taken out of the Catholic church's re-rendtion of God's commandments He gave to Moses? The problem is not how many, but why that particular one.
 
V

violakat

Guest
#57
I am a devout Catholic. I am curious what you find out what you think are the most difficult teachings of the Catholic Church.

I don't want to get into any discussions on this thread, I just want to hear from you personally what you disagree with from a theological perspective so I can know where to focus my studies.

try not to read other peoples responses until you have posted. Also try to list them in order with the teachings that you believe are least likely to be scripturaly supported at top.

The things I find most difficult with common protestant theology is
1) sola fide,
2) sola scriptura,
3) and the lack of infant baptism.
1.the infant baptism
2. the praying to saints and .
 
May 18, 2011
1,815
10
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#58
Yeah, you definitely don't understand the basics of Catholic theology. Trust me. Mary is not, nor has she ever been considered equal in status to Jesus. That is a heresy and is strongly condemned by the Catholic Church. As far as trusting the media on religious issues? Seriously, think about it. Would you trust the mainstream media to accurately depict what your church teaches?
I gave you dated evidence, but it's clear you're not interested in facts. The pope kissing the qu'ran is a fact too, and a direct slap to Yeshua. Yeshua wouldn't have anything to do with that. It is also a fact in the catholic's own documents that they believe they have the right to change the word of YHVH. So you can go ahead and continue to believe in this satanic doctrine called catholicism, but if you continue down this path, than you will answer for this path. I have nothing more to say on the subject.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,086
190
63
#59
Quick question for you....

I count 14 statements. Who determines the numbering of the 10 commandments?

Peace be with you, may your heart, eyes and ears be opened soon my friend.
 
M

megaman125

Guest
#60
Last time I was in my dentist's office, I saw a national geographic, and one the front page they had "a walk through Christianity." They showed various photos, and explained some of the history behind Christianity.

The thing that stood out to me the most was this. The catholics have a human skull that was dug up in the 1200's which they supposedly believe was the skull of Mary (how would they possibly know that anyways?). What did they do with this skull? They put it in a gold casing. This is just idol worship. There is NOTHING in the Bible that even SUGGESTS that Mary should be put on a pedistal like this and worshiped. In fact, the Bible clearly goes against such a practice. This whole thing was just sickening to me.