I expect an answer from you so called learned Christians
- Thread starter journey41
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S
Those men believed in God and had a relationship with God. They did not know Jesus in the flesh and werent around during Jesus earthly ministery. Jesus fufilled His sacrifice, After those men had already lived and died. Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." I think that what is being implied in that the Word of God cant be broken is, that prophecy cannot be changed. And also, after Jesus made His Sacrifice complete through His Blood, for our sins. For both jew and the gentile, (anybody who isnt jewish is a gentile.) I believe that the, no man comes to the Father.....is based on the jews believing in God and not believing that Jesus is the Son of God. And every man needs to believe on Him who sacrificed Himself for us. Its not enough to only believe in God, we must believe that JESUS is the son of our God and that CHRIST is our Savior. {So if you dont believe in My Son, that I have sent, and who has sacrificed Himself for you, then, I have nothing for you. So those men having been wise and true belivers of God would have to then be wise enough to accept CHRIST, when they were given the chance. I believe that they are at peace, resting with their Lord, and God. I hope that this is helpful. =Through the Bible with Les Feldick= is a good teaching tool. He teaches the scriptures, chapter by chapter, verse by verse. You can read the transcripts or listen to his teachings. It has really opened the Bible to me in an amazing way. And i can hop online and learn anytime. Amen and good learning to you.
L
Read with me 1cor 10
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Now everyone you said Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Hosea knew about the temple and learned that it was a picture of Christ. That's why in the book of Heb talks about how Jesus is our new High Priest no longer do we need a human high priest but now we have Jesus the real thing but all those things are to show who Jesus is before he came as a man.
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
This is why understand the Temple is so important to understand the work of Christ. He is the lamb that takes away the sins of the world. Unless we understand the OT then we almost lost at totally understanding the NT thought we might understand some. That's why we cant throw out the OT books of the bible.
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Now everyone you said Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Hosea knew about the temple and learned that it was a picture of Christ. That's why in the book of Heb talks about how Jesus is our new High Priest no longer do we need a human high priest but now we have Jesus the real thing but all those things are to show who Jesus is before he came as a man.
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
This is why understand the Temple is so important to understand the work of Christ. He is the lamb that takes away the sins of the world. Unless we understand the OT then we almost lost at totally understanding the NT thought we might understand some. That's why we cant throw out the OT books of the bible.
No tricks:
"Him" and "His name" do not mean simply his spoken or written name, but rather the essence of His name and what He represented which is: "Ya is our salvation" (rather than "my" salvation)
And what He did, give up everything to give us this message, crucified, dead, buried, and found worthy of a factual historical literal resurrection and ascension.
When I read the old testament, this belief is what I see in those guys.
From Adam onward, they had the message that the Father has a plan that involves raising us from the dead on the last day, and ceremonies and prophecies that foreshadowed Jesus. They knew Him in foresight, we know him in both foresight and hindsight. We have less excuse than they did.
A name in scriptural context encapsulates much more than just the person. It is "who they are",
and the reason that God renamed some of them after they changed on the inside.
Therefore, I believe that anyone who believes that himself and others, can and will be saved by believing that repentance will free you from sinning, and that forgiveness is available.
Regardless of whether or not they fully understand the rest of the story.
Repentance also spares other people from our sin, which should seem more important than for ourselves.
I know that many of my local preachers just think it's the word "Jesus" that does the trick.
"Him" and "His name" do not mean simply his spoken or written name, but rather the essence of His name and what He represented which is: "Ya is our salvation" (rather than "my" salvation)
And what He did, give up everything to give us this message, crucified, dead, buried, and found worthy of a factual historical literal resurrection and ascension.
When I read the old testament, this belief is what I see in those guys.
From Adam onward, they had the message that the Father has a plan that involves raising us from the dead on the last day, and ceremonies and prophecies that foreshadowed Jesus. They knew Him in foresight, we know him in both foresight and hindsight. We have less excuse than they did.
A name in scriptural context encapsulates much more than just the person. It is "who they are",
and the reason that God renamed some of them after they changed on the inside.
Therefore, I believe that anyone who believes that himself and others, can and will be saved by believing that repentance will free you from sinning, and that forgiveness is available.
Regardless of whether or not they fully understand the rest of the story.
Repentance also spares other people from our sin, which should seem more important than for ourselves.
I know that many of my local preachers just think it's the word "Jesus" that does the trick.
Jesus was the God of the Old Testament. Jesus gave Israel the Law of Moses. It is Jesus that all the Old Testament prophets saw and received instructions from. Jesus would never devise a religious system where he could not save you. If you lived the Law of Moses, which Jesus gave, you would be saved by faith in the Kingdom of God, through the grace of Jesus Christ, just like New Testament people. It just happened to be easier for New Testament people because Jesus, the God of the Old Testament came to earth and took on flesh and dwelt among all of them and they saw his miracles by his own hand and the wonder of him was everywhere. To these people he instituted the higher law called the Law of Christ, the same faith based gospel as the Old Testament people had except there were a few changes that took a burden from off the peoples backs in terms of performing certain rituals necessary to bringing people to Jesus.
So don't think that Jesus was casting off Old Testament people, he was not, he was their God also.
So don't think that Jesus was casting off Old Testament people, he was not, he was their God also.
Such odd answers. I would so wish mine was from a more scriptural understanding.
God is eternal, meaning that time means nothing to Him. We even think within the framework of time. God works with us using time that is earthly. God is in another dimension. Christ, God, the Holy Spirit, is just another manifestation of one God. So the time in the year 30 or so that we know as the time of the crucifixion was to God, something that always was. Man was told about this through symbols that were in the temple before Christ came. Please refer to scripture to study temple worship, using the blood of animals as symbols of Christ’s blood on the cross. We are told this was not as effective as what Christ did, but in many ways it was effective, even though it was a shadow of what Christ did.
We know God is so holy that no one since whatever it was that happened to Adam and Eve so they received the knowledge of evil can we be holy enough to live with God. We are told over and over that a goal of the Creator who created us is that we not truly die but live on with Him. That Creator cannot live with sin; we have the knowledge of sin. In order for us to live with the creator always, there must be a way to cleanse us from this sin.
Christ spent three days after the crucifixion doing what we do not understand, but between the crucifixion and the resurrection Christ made a way for this cleansing.
We know that God preserved people before Christ. We are told that temple worship, or the worship shadowing Christ, was involved. Scripture isn’t at all clear about how God took care of preserving the soul, except that God did. It talks of “asleep with the fathers”. After Christ, death was spoken of in a different way in scripture. Some of our Christian scholars believe they were freed from their sleep at the time of Christ. I don’t think when or how is important for us to know. God did it.
This is only one aspect of this process, with God’s grace, our faith, etc. playing a large role, but not part of this discussion.
It is made clear that Christ was the key to salvation from the beginning of time.
God is eternal, meaning that time means nothing to Him. We even think within the framework of time. God works with us using time that is earthly. God is in another dimension. Christ, God, the Holy Spirit, is just another manifestation of one God. So the time in the year 30 or so that we know as the time of the crucifixion was to God, something that always was. Man was told about this through symbols that were in the temple before Christ came. Please refer to scripture to study temple worship, using the blood of animals as symbols of Christ’s blood on the cross. We are told this was not as effective as what Christ did, but in many ways it was effective, even though it was a shadow of what Christ did.
We know God is so holy that no one since whatever it was that happened to Adam and Eve so they received the knowledge of evil can we be holy enough to live with God. We are told over and over that a goal of the Creator who created us is that we not truly die but live on with Him. That Creator cannot live with sin; we have the knowledge of sin. In order for us to live with the creator always, there must be a way to cleanse us from this sin.
Christ spent three days after the crucifixion doing what we do not understand, but between the crucifixion and the resurrection Christ made a way for this cleansing.
We know that God preserved people before Christ. We are told that temple worship, or the worship shadowing Christ, was involved. Scripture isn’t at all clear about how God took care of preserving the soul, except that God did. It talks of “asleep with the fathers”. After Christ, death was spoken of in a different way in scripture. Some of our Christian scholars believe they were freed from their sleep at the time of Christ. I don’t think when or how is important for us to know. God did it.
This is only one aspect of this process, with God’s grace, our faith, etc. playing a large role, but not part of this discussion.
It is made clear that Christ was the key to salvation from the beginning of time.
X
It basically means, if you want to pray to Our Father, worship him or acknowlegde and believe in him. It is all worthless if you don't know about Jesus.
Basically this rebukes all the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses, because they teach/preach about God instead of Jesus Christ.
WHo is God, who God are they teaching about? we don't know.
If we know who Jesus Christ is, then we know who God is!
Many people say God and don't even know who he is, if we can know about his Son then we'll know who God is and can go to him.
Basically this rebukes all the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses, because they teach/preach about God instead of Jesus Christ.
WHo is God, who God are they teaching about? we don't know.
If we know who Jesus Christ is, then we know who God is!
Many people say God and don't even know who he is, if we can know about his Son then we'll know who God is and can go to him.
Hi Journey
I am not a 'learned Christian' but didn't they all come to God in the OT through Christ without knowing it?
The Lord said to MY LORD, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1
And we know that it is Christ who accompanied the Israelites in the wilderness
1Cor 10:4
I am not a 'learned Christian' but didn't they all come to God in the OT through Christ without knowing it?
The Lord said to MY LORD, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1
And we know that it is Christ who accompanied the Israelites in the wilderness
1Cor 10:4
N
I know what you mean, it would be like they are 2nd class children because it would seem the did not have the blessedness of Christ price He paid for us on the cross. All those people were preached to by Christ while he was yet in the tomb, all the way back to the time of Adam. Its written that Christ went to heaven and preached to those that are in prison, or across the divide as written of in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. And it says He freed many people. They were given the same oppertunity we have today. God is fair... ., Same as today, those that dont have a prayer of a chance today will have it on The Lord's Day; that is when Christ returns and disaplines/teaches for a 1000 years, they will be taught by Christ in person. so that's fair. No one has been sent to hell yet. not even Satan is in hell. they are being held in heaven. As much as it upsets people to hear it, Satan is in heaven. Rev 12 is your doc. anyway hope that cleared it up. Simply read the teachings of Christ and you'll find its just like i outlined.
Last edited: