Are you worthy enough to play for keeps?

[Liamson]

I am usually not critical of myself enough, but in this I feel I need to explain myself. I'm not talking about being "ready" I am talking about simply being worthy.



A line from the Book of Daniel and A Knights Tale......


You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found wanting.

Where do we go when the shadows of our once conquered demons rise again to whisper lies in our ear: "Whatever good you find, whatever perfect beautiful thing you desire, you do not deserve. Why don't you strive instead for something less, for you are like your own dirty laundry. If Esau gave up his birthright for food, you have surrendered yours for far less. Cast your pearls before the swine, for it is better to be misunderstood than to attempt to present yourself as you are, before the very thing that you desire most. You do not deserve the very dreams that fill your sleep." I want to believe that they are lies, or that somehow they can be ignored but, only Christ can save me from myself. To Him I owe my best and so I do not listen or settle in a life of comfortable sin.

BUT!

I would be foolish to place my heart before a wise, righteous and virtuous woman...

-Her eyes are like arrows, lightning and airport security. No slight thing, for good or bad, escapes her gaze.
-Her beautiful lips speak like a flaming brand, they inspire, tear down defenses and burn hearts like chaff.
-Her heart is like a compass, from which she does not stray.
-Her spirit is like the tallest redwood, which sets its gaze forever toward heaven.
-She suffers fools, as an aircraft carrier suffers small fishing boats.
-She does not trouble herself with the squabbles of superficial women.
-She stands like a pillar of unblemished granite, a lighthouse above the swirling dark that fills this world.
-Her righteousness is well known, but her pride is in the Lord.

What man is there who can be found to court her?

Where are the princes, the knights, the masters, the gentleman to woo her?

Who am I to pursue such a woman to be my own?

I have looked far and wide and found no honorable man suitable to stand beside her, as her equal, as her companion and as the love of her life.

Are you him?

 

[zeroturbulence]

That's basically what I've tried to say in here a few times but I mostly get ignored.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Looks like I'm not the only one who gets ignored when pointing this stuff out.

My guess is that many folks here feel very strongly that they cannot settle for anything less than a perfectly Godly man or woman as you described above, so they are having a hard time digesting the thought that maybe they don't really deserve a perfectly Godly mate.

Hmmm....

 

[Liamson]

That's basically what I've tried to say in here a few times but I mostly get ignored.

I'm sorry for that. It took a night of me, myself and the sound of my own thoughts to get to the bottom of what I was really thinking.

Sometimes I wish that even for a moment they could see themselves through our eyes.

 

[zeroturbulence]

I'm sorry for that. It took a night of me, myself and the sound of my own thoughts to get to the bottom of what I was really thinking.

Sometimes I wish that even for a moment they could see themselves through our eyes.

No need to apologize, Doug. I don't even remember when I said that stuff. I just remember saying that I would never think of myself as worthy or deserving of a "perfect mate" (as I put it) no matter how successful or righteous I felt I was. By perfect, I mean like a woman who is all that as described above. I've also said it other times in different ways throughout my time here.

 

[Jullianna]

I didn't ignore it. Just wanted to mull it over a bit...and, truthfully, I wondered whether we ladies should stay out and let the guys have this one.

The thing is, when women read this, what are we to do with it?

If we don't strive to become the things listed, things christian men say they want and look for in a woman, we will be alone...and if we DO strive for them, we will still be alone because the men we want in our lives may deem themselves unworthy.

Maybe they just don't understand that, as children of the King, they ARE princes...

We aren't looking for perfection. We are looking to be cherished by someone who knows how.

 

[Liamson]

Well, what brought this on for me is that way back in the day circa 2006, I was casually befriending 2 women from different worlds. I will refer to them as Woman A and Woman X.

Woman A, volunteered with my Homeless endeavors. She and I went to church together, bible study and we met volunteering. We never met outside of this world but, I did manage to teach her how to drive a stick one afternoon after volunteering and I met her parents.

Woman X, was a room mate. She and I would walk to the Dog Park together and had lunch together and if she or I had a barbeque we were always invited. She smoked, drank and was a regular fashionista. She believed in God, in the same way that people pay car insurance hoping that it might actually replace their vehicle with a replica.


At that time, I felt nervous and torn about what was slowly turning into me seeing two women. So I had to make a choice and I went with dating my room mate. I didn't drink or smoke and I wasn't going to mess around. I felt like if I dated Woman A, I was going to be hurt very badly WHEN she broke up with me. Whereas Woman X, would never hurt me, because she didn't know how. So for me its like a defense mechanism of some kind.


As a side note...

Also dating women like Woman X, usually means they have more grace with me. They are more forgiving and more willing to "be there" when I need them, like when my car breaks and is in the shop for a few weeks or when I need someone to feed my fish cause I'm going to be out at sea for the weekend. They actually understand that a cell phone bill that gets paid two days after its due isn't the end of the world, or even a "sign"

Woman A, seems to be all about the Narrative. If something goes wrong or is out of place, they will bail. They seem to want the idea of having a man who's life involves little to no surprises. If I hurt myself surfing, it only proves that I'm reckless. When she finds Metallica in my iTunes, she wonders why I call myself a Christian. They want SIGNS, that I'm the ONE. If Woman A is not on an emotional high, she will unplug.

What terrifies me, would be to find the woman who has both grace and faith. A woman who doesn't want to control me, or just let me do my own thing but, actually goes with me. I would be afraid, because I know that I would not choose her and I would hurt her, by choosing to be with someone that doesn't deserve to be with me. I would do this because I can see her value.

So, this is why I'm never getting married. Because I'm "that guy"

 

[Oncefallen]

I'll admit that I spent the larger part of my life taking the stance (subconsciously) that I wasn't worthy of being with a great woman and as a result I consistently "settled" for women that far from met my desires. All these relationships did was drag me down and further convince me that I didn't deserve better. As I hit my 30's I began to beat myself up with the idea that no decent woman would want me anyway because of what then was my recent past so I continued to settle for less than what I desired. Sooooo, I can relate to where you're coming from Liamson.

So, move forward ten years and I've come to a point where I won't settle anymore. First because "settling" has never done anything but make me miserable. Second, because I have found my true value in spite of my past and have realized that the truly godly woman that God wants for me will accept me for who I am today.

So, what changed my mindset? Think about the retail business at it's core. Who determines a product's value? If you said the retailer, you're wrong. The purchaser determines the value. The retailer may set the price, but the purchaser determines the value. If you don't think the product is worth the asking price you don't buy it, and if you purchase something you are by default agreeing that the price set by the retailer is proper for the product's value.

Confused yet? I'm sure you're wondering what retail sales has to do with relationships.

First and foremost as Christians we were bought at a price (1st Cor 6:20) by God so HE has determined our value in spite of how we may choose to value ourselves. I don't think I'm in a position to argue with my creator about what my value is. So what does He have to say about us? We are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation (1 Peter 2:9) So, God chose us, determined our value to be worth the price of His Son's blood, and He calls us a royal priesthood. Doesn't a prince in God's kingdom deserve a woman of the same quality?

So, lets get to where the tire meets the road, applying this to relationships. In the long run in relationships our value as men is determined by who? Yep, you got it, the LADY. We "market" ourselves in day to day life (hopefully honestly) showing who we are and who we strive to be, but it's the lady who decides if she's going to "buy" the product that we are (the converse is also true).

Most of us men here claim that we want a godly woman. It would seem to me that a truly godly woman is going to value a godly man in accordance with godly principles, not worldly ideals and stereotypes.

Don't get me wrong, I have my days where I slip into the "I'm not worthy" pity party from time to time and kick myself around for a few days, I was there just last week. I sat around kicking myself for wasting so many years of my life chasing after godless relationships, telling myself that my life as I know it is the best it's ever gonna be because "I'm not worthy" of the woman I desire since of course a godly woman would never want anything to do with a man like me.

Guys, quit selling yourself short. Go after the woman you want, not the woman you thing you "deserve."

 

[niceguyJ]

For me, this song is appropriate for the thoughts this brings up:
Andrew Peterson - Fool With a Fancy Guitar - Songs & Stories Tour in CT - YouTube
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLZ6OGwHFRA[/video]


Do I feel worthy of such a woman? No. It would just make me appreciate her that much more though if I got her. I won't settle.

 

[kayem77]

I'll admit that I spent the larger part of my life taking the stance (subconsciously) that I wasn't worthy of being with a great woman and as a result I consistently "settled" for women that far from met my desires. All these relationships did was drag me down and further convince me that I didn't deserve better. As I hit my 30's I began to beat myself up with the idea that no decent woman would want me anyway because of what then was my recent past so I continued to settle for less than what I desired. Sooooo, I can relate to where you're coming from Liamson.

So, move forward ten years and I've come to a point where I won't settle anymore. First because "settling" has never done anything but make me miserable. Second, because I have found my true value in spite of my past and have realized that the truly godly woman that God wants for me will accept me for who I am today.

So, what changed my mindset? Think about the retail business at it's core. Who determines a product's value? If you said the retailer, you're wrong. The purchaser determines the value. The retailer may set the price, but the purchaser determines the value. If you don't think the product is worth the asking price you don't buy it, and if you purchase something you are by default agreeing that the price set by the retailer is proper for the product's value.

Confused yet? I'm sure you're wondering what retail sales has to do with relationships.

First and foremost as Christians we were bought at a price (1st Cor 6:20) by God so HE has determined our value in spite of how we may choose to value ourselves. I don't think I'm in a position to argue with my creator about what my value is. So what does He have to say about us? We are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation (1 Peter 2:9) So, God chose us, determined our value to be worth the price of His Son's blood, and He calls us a royal priesthood. Doesn't a prince in God's kingdom deserve a woman of the same quality?

So, lets get to where the tire meets the road, applying this to relationships. In the long run in relationships our value as men is determined by who? Yep, you got it, the LADY. We "market" ourselves in day to day life (hopefully honestly) showing who we are and who we strive to be, but it's the lady who decides if she's going to "buy" the product that we are (the converse is also true).

Most of us men here claim that we want a godly woman. It would seem to me that a truly godly woman is going to value a godly man in accordance with godly principles, not worldly ideals and stereotypes.

Don't get me wrong, I have my days where I slip into the "I'm not worthy" pity party from time to time and kick myself around for a few days, I was there just last week. I sat around kicking myself for wasting so many years of my life chasing after godless relationships, telling myself that my life as I know it is the best it's ever gonna be because "I'm not worthy" of the woman I desire since of course a godly woman would never want anything to do with a man like me.

Guys, quit selling yourself short. Go after the woman you want, not the woman you thing you "deserve."

I love this Guys listen to him, I approve it!

 

[Ritter]

I always thought that if I couldn't measure up, I'd at least try and in so doing become worthy of someone. Don't ask me how well it's worked, hahaha.

 

[eugenius]

I am worthy enough not to play games. I'm serious and demand to be taken seriously. That was a joke haha. Anyway this cake is great, so delicious and moist.

 

[clee356]

My old mentor said something to me that helped me a lot with something like this. I used to feel like I didn't deserve my ex, and that I wasn't worthy enough to have anything good. Hope this helps someone else too

It is also true we are not worthy even to be saved by the Lord. It is only by his grace and his love that we are saved – anything we can offer Jesus in return for his love or salvation is worthless.

Would it be helpful to counter the lie that you are not worthy to be in relationship with anyone, with the simple statement of agreement – No, I am not worthy (in a spiritual sense), but like my relationship with Jesus, love and grace overcome all worthiness.

You can get into a trap of trying to come up with reasons why you are worthy for anything, any job, any ministry, any relationship. Maybe the best way to consider it is to acknowledge that worthiness isn’t a valid concept, but love and grace are. Worthiness measures exactly what? How good we are? How pure we are? How much we have accomplished? If that is worthiness, we will never achieve it. A mother quickly bonds with her newborn baby, falling in love with it, willing to lose her life to save it. What has the baby done to be worthy of that? Worthiness is endowed by the love of the other person in the relationship, not us.

You are both worthy of being in a relationship because you have chosen each other, and love each other. The love and choice provides worthiness, not your own character. One of the very difficult parts of being in a love relationship with another person is feeling and sharing their suffering. You are right, you can’t really do anything – but realizing that is so important. Never count out Jesus!

The more I think about worthiness, the more I realize it is a non-issue. It is masquerading as a lie. It’s really a wrong turn. Condemnation, as you know, never comes from the Holy Spirit. When you really “get” that you aren’t worthy in the true sense, how can you feel condemned for it? It’s like feeling condemned for not being a snowflake.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Ok so even though a person doesn't DESERVE a righteous, upright and Godly mate, God will drop one into their lap because they won't settle for less??

That just doesn't sound right to me.

 

[zeroturbulence]

So does God just fix people up with a super-christian mate because they don't want to marry someone who is not such a great christian? What does that make God? A genie in a bottle?

Its one thing to HOPE for something, but if one is going to EXPECT it and not settle for anything less, they should at least take a realistic look at the odds of that happening and the lack of scripture to support such a move by God.

 

[niceguyJ]

Ok so even though a person doesn't DESERVE a righteous, upright and Godly mate, God will drop one into their lap because they won't settle for less??

That just doesn't sound right to me.

Who said that here? It doesn't sound right to me either...but let me add this:

Sure, God could do that if He wanted..He's God..He can do anything. Lets not forget that.
That doesn't mean He will do that though. He knows what is best for each of us...which means different ways of things happening or not happening for each of us.
What bothers me is some people feel entitled..They think God should do that for them...that He owes us something. He doesn't owe us anything, but we owe Him EVERYTHING. Yet He has given, and keeps on giving.

Also for me, when I say "I won't settle." That does NOT mean I expect a perfect person to marry. I don't. It just means that I would never marry just for the sake of marrying. It would have to be the right girl for me. Not a perfect girl, the right girl.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Who said that here? It doesn't sound right to me either...but let me add this:

Sure, God could do that if He wanted..He's God..He can do anything. Lets not forget that.
That doesn't mean He will do that though. He knows what is best for each of us...which means different ways of things happening or not happening for each of us.
What bothers me is some people feel entitled..They think God should do that for them...that He owes us something. He doesn't owe us anything, but we owe him EVERYTHING. Yet He has given, and keeps on giving.

I happen to know that a lot of people here are not dating but expect God to send them a mate.

 

[Snackersmom]

I happen to know that a lot of people here are not dating but expect God to send them a mate.

Well, I don't date unless I see real potential in the person, so I'm not "dating", in the sense that I'm test-driving every car on the lot, just to find the one I'm going to buy...........but I don't expect God to send me a husband, either. Great if he does, great if he doesn't.

As far as Liamson's description of the kind of girl he feels is un-attainable........does anyone here feel as if they have become "That Girl?" I hope not.......if we think too highly of ourselves, we tend to forget that there's always room for improvement. So, You guys might think that you aren't worthy of "That Girl", but I doubt that many of us girls feel particularly worthy of "That Guy". We're all a bunch of mess-up human beings, anyway......is any of us really deserving of anything?

Like niceguyJ said, I'm not looking for perfection, but I don't want to settle for the wrong person, either.

I think, ideally, it would be great to feel as if I married way above myself.......and I would love for the guy I marry to feel the same way

 

[MaryR]

Ok so even though a person doesn't DESERVE a righteous, upright and Godly mate, God will drop one into their lap because they won't settle for less??

That just doesn't sound right to me.

Without getting overly involved in this conversation, I'd like to say that this doesn't sound right to me either. But neither does the fact that my King died to save me. I didn't deserve that at all. I was completely unworthy, completely worthless and yet... he saved me.
It seems to me that God hands us things we don't deserve on a regular basis.

 

[Jullianna]

AMEN, Mary

I think niceguy said it best, don't seek the perfect person (that won't happen), seek the right person.

We have to stop comparing the outsides of another person to our insides. If we could see one another as Christ sees us, we might be very surprised. Just as Liamson said he wished that woman could see herself through his eyes, maybe she wishes he could see her through her own eyes.

I am often moved to tears in this forum by the purity of your hearts and the desire you all have for God to work in and through you. That is your value, not your past mistakes. We're all running the same race. We're just wearing different shoes.