Bible Teachings or Traditions of Men?

[Alter2Ego]

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
I am a Christian and have the deepest respect for God's inspired Word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. I invite fellow Christians to participate in the questions for discussion. Two of the most basic teachings in Christendom are as follows:

1. THE TRINITY
The teaching that God is split up into three individual persons that are combined into one "Godhead" (Father, Son, and holy ghost/holy spirit). All three of these persons are said to be CO-EQUAL (meaning they have the same power) and CO-ETERNAL (meaning they have always existed at the same time and none of them can die).


2. HELLFIRE
The teaching that God will burn a person's soul in everlasting hellfire for committing wicked deeds. In other words, God will supposedly punish people forever in fiery flames of hell--despite the fact the crimes the persons committed were only done during the persons' brief human lifespan.


QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Are there scriptures in the Bible to support the teachings of Trinity and hellfire? If so, present the scriptures by giving Bible book, chapter, and verse and also explain why you believe the scripture you present is talking about Trinity or literal hellfire.


2. Why are these teachings found in pagan/false religions that never worshipped the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible? For instance there were pagan trinities at least 200 years before Jesus came to the earth as a human as well as during the 1st century AD when Jesus Christ was on earth.

In the 2nd century B.C.E. (two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Egypt had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Horus, (2) Osiris, and (3) Isis.

Likewise, in the 2nd century B.C.E. (two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Babylon had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Ishtar, (2) Sin, and (3) Shamash.

In the 1st century C.E., Palmyra, which was an ancient city in Syria, had a triune god which consisted of (1) moon god, (2) Lord of Heavens, and (3) sun god.
​

3. If the Trinity and hellfire are Bible teachings, why is it that Jesus and his apostles who followed him around never taught anyone about the Trinity and literal hellfire?


4. How is it that both the Trinity and hellfire teachings did not become "Christian" teachings until the Roman Catholics copied both of them from pagan/false religions--AFTER the resurrected Jesus Christ returned to heaven?


5. If hell is a place of literal fiery torment, how is it that the Bible says Jesus went to hell for the entire three days that he was dead?

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that HIS SOUL WAS NOT LEFT IN HELL, neither his flesh did see corruption."(Acts 2:31--King James Version)
​

6. If hell is a place of literal torment, why is it that the word "hell" also means "Sheol" and "Hades" and "the grave"?


7. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to this effect to prove it.


8. Are the words "Trinity" and "Godhead" in the Bible? If so, were those words part of the original writings?

 

[kenisyes]

The lake of fire that answers to hell is in Rev. 20:14-15. John wrote Revelation, and He was an apostle. It's not written too much in the apostles' writings, because most of what is in the Bible are letters to people who were already saved, and so few of them could sin severely enough to go there. My take on this Scripture is that both body and soul will burn forever (Matt. 10:28), as it will be a very different kind of body (I Cor. 15:22).

The trinity is not in the Bible, although Father, Son, and Spirit are all God. The trinity is a way developed to teach this fact in early Christianity. It may have been copied from a pagan source, but I have never heard this before.

Many non-Christians know a part of who God is (Rom. 1 starting at vs. 19) but get it mixed up.

Sheol, Hades, and the grave describe waiting places. The literal hell-fire is not until the end. A figurative hell-fire is the state of deliberate sinners even while they are alive, and is what they will have between death and the resurrection.

I Cor. 15:22 and Matt. 25:41 and the Rev. scripture all prove that the evil people are going to be judged and put into the fire. Many scholars feel that the Jews did not know about hell until they learned that the Persians believed in it. But it's presence in the Bible proves it is true anyway.

"Godhead" in Acts 17:29 is Greek theios - divinity, Rom 1:20 is Greek theiotes - divine nature, and in Col 2:9 is Greek theotes - the state of being God. I know of no-one who has ever suggested they were not part of the original writings.

I'm curious as to what you have encountered that makes you question these?

 

[GraceBeUntoYou]

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
I am a Christian and have the deepest respect for God's inspired Word, the Judeo-Christian Bible. I invite fellow Christians to participate in the questions for discussion. Two of the most basic teachings in Christendom are as follows:

1. THE TRINITY
The teaching that God is split up into three individual persons that are combined into one "Godhead" (Father, Son, and holy ghost/holy spirit). All three of these persons are said to be CO-EQUAL (meaning they have the same power) and CO-ETERNAL (meaning they have always existed at the same time and none of them can die).


2. HELLFIRE
The teaching that God will burn a person's soul in everlasting hellfire for committing wicked deeds. In other words, God will supposedly punish people forever in fiery flames of hell--despite the fact the crimes the persons committed were only done during the persons' brief human lifespan.


QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Are there scriptures in the Bible to support the teachings of Trinity and hellfire? If so, present the scriptures by giving Bible book, chapter, and verse and also explain why you believe the scripture you present is talking about Trinity or literal hellfire.


2. Why are these teachings found in pagan/false religions that never worshipped the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible? For instance there were pagan trinities at least 200 years before Jesus came to the earth as a human as well as during the 1st century AD when Jesus Christ was on earth.

In the 2nd century B.C.E. (two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Egypt had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Horus, (2) Osiris, and (3) Isis.

Likewise, in the 2nd century B.C.E. (two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Babylon had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Ishtar, (2) Sin, and (3) Shamash.

In the 1st century C.E., Palmyra, which was an ancient city in Syria, had a triune god which consisted of (1) moon god, (2) Lord of Heavens, and (3) sun god.
​

3. If the Trinity and hellfire are Bible teachings, why is it that Jesus and his apostles who followed him around never taught anyone about the Trinity and literal hellfire?


4. How is it that both the Trinity and hellfire teachings did not become "Christian" teachings until the Roman Catholics copied both of them from pagan/false religions--AFTER the resurrected Jesus Christ returned to heaven?


5. If hell is a place of literal fiery torment, how is it that the Bible says Jesus went to hell for the entire three days that he was dead?

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that HIS SOUL WAS NOT LEFT IN HELL, neither his flesh did see corruption."(Acts 2:31--King James Version)
​

6. If hell is a place of literal torment, why is it that the word "hell" also means "Sheol" and "Hades" and "the grave"?


7. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to this effect to prove it.


8. Are the words "Trinity" and "Godhead" in the Bible? If so, were those words part of the original writings?

[FONT=&quot]My prime focus will be on the historical aspects of your post, as well as the comments you’ve made regarding the Trinity. [/FONT]

Far from the teachings of Christian monotheists who hold to the concept that the Triune God, pagans were polytheists who believed in many gods, much like the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. One prime example of this can be found in the so-called Egyptian “Triad of Horus, Osiris, Isis.” What you fail to mention that this so-called “triad” was actually comprised of a family of several gods (not just three), led by a head god named “Amon Ra.” This god family consisted of Seb (father) and Nut (mother) whose god children were Set, Nedphthys, Isis, and Osiris. Osiris then married his sister, Isis, and begot Horus, Seth, and (in some pagan cults) a third child named Anpu. Therefore, simply because one may find pagan sculptures which represent three of their many false gods together in one statue, this does not in the least imply that they believed in some sort of “pagan trinity.” In reality, the Christian monotheistic concept of the one and only Triune God is diametrically opposed to the pagan legends involving a triad of gods who ruled over many other gods. Most of these alleged influences are either far too early of far too late, or far too removed geographically to have any significant influence.

As the first century was evolving into the second, the Roman Emperor by the name of Trajan issued an order that all of the empire’s inhabitants must bow down to the pagan gods, or be executed. As Trajan was traveling through Antioch, he heard of this man by the name of Ignatius of Antioch, which refused to offer sacrifices to the pagan gods. In an upheaval, Trajan had Ignatius brought before him, found him guilty of being a Christian, and ordered him to be taken to Rome, where he would be ripped apart by lions in the Coliseum for the entertainment of the crowds. It is this very Ignatius who wrote in his letter to the Smyrneans (107AD),

“I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise , for I saw that you are established in an unshakable faith, having been nailed, as it were, to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ in both body and spirit, and firmly established in love by the blood of Christ, totally convinced with regard to our Lord that He is truly of the family of David with respect to human descent, Son of God with respect to the divine will and power, truly born of a virgin, baptized by John in order that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed in the flesh for us under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch (from its fruit we derive our existence, that is, from His divinely blessed suffering), in order that He might raise a banner for the ages through His resurrection for His saints and faithful people, whether among Jews or among Gentiles, in the one body of His church.”
​

And to the Ephesians,

“My spirit is made an offscouring for the Cross, which is a stumbling-block to them that are unbelievers, but to us salvation and life eternal. Where is the wise? Where is the disputer? Where is the boasting of them that are called prudent? For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived in the womb by Mary according to a dispensation, of the seed of David but also of the Holy Ghost; and He was born and was baptized that by His person He might cleanse water.”
​

Ignatius describes Christ throughout his Epistles as “our God” (Ignatius to the Ephesians 1, 18; Romans 1), “the Eternal” (Ignatius to Polycarp 3), “who was with the Father before the beginning of time” (Ignatius to the Magnesians 6), “God in man” (Ignatius to the Ephesians 7), “truly of the family of David with respect to human descent, Son of God with respect to the divine will and power” (Ignatius to the Smyrneans 1), “God appeared in the likeness of man” (Ignatius to the Ephesians 19), and yet he was executed for the enjoyment of others, because he would not pay tribute to, or acknowledge the pagan gods.

What is altogether intriguing is that you, a Jehovah's Witness, are criticizing Trinitarianism which you suggest was influenced by pagan ideology, when it is the Jehovah's Witnesses themselves that hold to stark similarities of the ancient Roman pagan world. Most Roman emperors, as well as Rome's citizens were henotheists, or otherwise known as "monarchical polytheist." That is, they believed in the existence of many gods, but focuses primarily on one particular god or considers one particular god supreme over the other gods.

Also, what I find equally as intriguing is that the ancient artwork picturing Egyptian and Babylonian triads are dated from about two thousand years before the Witnesses claim the Trinity originated.

For the sake of brevity, this will end my post for now. Perhaps in the upcoming posts we could discuss further the Biblical evidence in favor of the Trinity.

 

[GraceBeUntoYou]

The lake of fire that answers to hell is in Rev. 20:14-15. John wrote Revelation, and He was an apostle. It's not written too much in the apostles' writings, because most of what is in the Bible are letters to people who were already saved, and so few of them could sin severely enough to go there. My take on this Scripture is that both body and soul will burn forever (Matt. 10:28), as it will be a very different kind of body (I Cor. 15:22).

The trinity is not in the Bible, although Father, Son, and Spirit are all God. The trinity is a way developed to teach this fact in early Christianity. It may have been copied from a pagan source, but I have never heard this before.

Many non-Christians know a part of who God is (Rom. 1 starting at vs. 19) but get it mixed up.

Sheol, Hades, and the grave describe waiting places. The literal hell-fire is not until the end. A figurative hell-fire is the state of deliberate sinners even while they are alive, and is what they will have between death and the resurrection.

I Cor. 15:22 and Matt. 25:41 and the Rev. scripture all prove that the evil people are going to be judged and put into the fire. Many scholars feel that the Jews did not know about hell until they learned that the Persians believed in it. But it's presence in the Bible proves it is true anyway.

"Godhead" in Acts 17:29 is Greek theios - divinity, Rom 1:20 is Greek theiotes - divine nature, and in Col 2:9 is Greek theotes - the state of being God. I know of no-one who has ever suggested they were not part of the original writings.

I'm curious as to what you have encountered that makes you question these?

Easy: She's a Jehovah's Witness

 

[WolfInOxHide]

You might find useful things in Ezekiel 8

verse 5 reveals the abomination of God made in man's image.

verse 6 reveals the abomination of thinking God is not living inside the servant.

verses 10-12 reveals the abomination of "religion" in general and it's corrupted graven imagery.

verse 14 reveals the abomination of saying God is a man who fathered Himself with an earthly woman. (#2 in your list)

verse 16 reveals the abomination of worshiping God's revelation instead of God Himself

verse 17 reveals those who, instead of "smelling" the Spirit, beat themselves up over the identity of Christ and the remnant.

Those who do these things, are the house of Judah.

The prophecy is for then, and now.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

verse 16 reveals the abomination of worshiping God's revelation instead of God Himself

And might I point out, this one can be a really deep thing to come to grips with.

It's "sun worship."
and I don't mean to imply "son" here as some few do.
But as in the lightbulb going off over your head, "dawned on me", ... revelation

 

[WolfInOxHide]

And might I point out, this one can be a really deep thing to come to grips with.

It's "sun worship."
and I don't mean to imply "son" here as some few do.
But as in the lightbulb going off over your head, "dawned on me", ... revelation

A prime example being: the most famously known "black hole" theorist ever. Sunworship. Worshiping "discovery" without the idea of a creator.

Who I pray is someday physically and miraculously restored by a servant of Y'Shua.

 

[RedTent]

Alterego said: QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:

2. Why are these teachings found in pagan/false religions that never worshipped the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible? For instance there were pagan trinities at least 200 years before Jesus came to the earth as a human as well as during the 1st century AD when Jesus Christ was on earth.

In the 2nd century B.C.E. (two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Egypt had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Horus, (2) Osiris, and (3) Isis.

Likewise, in the 2nd century B.C.E. (two centuries before Christ came to the earth), Babylon had a triad of gods consisting of (1) Ishtar, (2) Sin, and (3) Shamash.

In the 1st century C.E., Palmyra, which was an ancient city in Syria, had a triune god which consisted of (1) moon god, (2) Lord of Heavens, and (3) sun god.

Christ was before His time He lived on earth, Abraham knew Him, He was there at creation as the Gospels tell us. Very soon after creation, men started making up Gods. That was also true after the flood. Muhammad who created the Muslim religion was born in 570. This has nothing to do with the One True God.

 

[kenisyes]

Easy: She's a Jehovah's Witness

Do you have any proof? I have looked at her profile and posts, and did not see anything to claim that. Maybe alter2ego, you could tell us if that is so?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Do you have any proof? I have looked at her profile and posts, and did not see anything to claim that. Maybe alter2ego, you could tell us if that is so?

Discernment takes training.

I have a question for Alter2Ego...


Do you believe Jesus is God?

 

[kenisyes]

Discernment takes training.

Much training is by trial and error.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Much training is by trial and error.

When it comes to spiritual matters, some cases might be so, but in matters of doctrine (the central dispute of this thread) it is a matter of scripture.

Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

 

[GraceBeUntoYou]

Do you have any proof? I have looked at her profile and posts, and did not see anything to claim that. Maybe alter2ego, you could tell us if that is so?

I tend to take my Biblical, and historical studies very seriously, including understanding the ancient heresies surrounding the early Church, and their influence in the modern day. With that being said, it is generally very easy for me to recognize a Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Oneness Pentecostal, or Socinian from the crowd with minimal information provided, and for this I give thanks to God.

Putting that aside, the reason that you find no information on this users profile is because she must remain anonymous. The Watchtower does not permit its members to partake in theological discussions online, so the consequences would be severe if they were to ever find out. However, with that said, there's certainly traces of evidence sitting before you of Alter2Ego's affiliation with the Witnesses if you only took the time to look close enough.

Consider the following:

(1) Denial of the Trinity
(2) Denial of everlasting torment, and traces of annihilationism
(3) Borrowed arguments from Watchtower literature, namely, "Should You Believe in the Trinity?"
(4) The word-for-word citation of Psalm 83.18, as it reads in her signature, is nowhere to be found in any English translation other than the New World Translation, a Watchtower publication (see attachments)​

 

[Saint-John]

Gosh heaps to read here..ok brief ,Trinity is not a scriptural word.. GOD (Godhead)..Jesus Christ..(the word)..Holy Spirit (the power to bring what was spoken into being)...these three are one in spirit and purpose..(when you recieve the Holy Spirit yourself you SEE how this is possible, not in our human 2dimesional thinking).God is not part of..HE IS !!!...in Revelations alpha and omega, first and last, are mentioned as attributed to Yahweh GOD..yet,Re 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys ofand of death. umm when did God die ??

but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
umm but hey this is the GOSPEL, GOOD NEWS..you can be saved from this..ie acts 2.4 2.38 mark 16.15 -end etc

 

[kenisyes]

I tend to take my Biblical, and historical studies very seriously, including understanding the ancient heresies surrounding the early Church, and their influence in the modern day. With that being said, it is generally very easy for me to recognize a Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Oneness Pentecostal, or Socinian from the crowd with minimal information provided, and for this I give thanks to God.

Putting that aside, the reason that you find no information on this users profile is because she must remain anonymous. The Watchtower does not permit its members to partake in theological discussions online, so the consequences would be severe if they were to ever find out. However, with that said, there's certainly traces of evidence sitting before you of Alter2Ego's affiliation with the Witnesses if you only took the time to look close enough.

Consider the following:

(1) Denial of the Trinity
(2) Denial of everlasting torment, and traces of annihilationism
(3) Borrowed arguments from Watchtower literature, namely, "Should You Believe in the Trinity?"
(4) The word-for-word citation of Psalm 83.18, as it reads in her signature, is nowhere to be found in any English translation other than the New World Translation, a Watchtower publication (see attachments)​

After that neat post yesterday in the other thread about talmudic reasoning, I figured you could give us a list. I am not familiar with JW doctrine, having worked elsewhere in the Body. Especially #4 kind of rules out that this person has innocently gotten involved with some new movement, which was what I was wondering. (Now of course, after I post this, alter2ego will probably deny it. If that is so, my apologies to you.)

 

[Alter2Ego]

The lake of fire that answers to hell is in Rev. 20:14-15. John wrote Revelation, and He was an apostle. It's not written too much in the apostles' writings, because most of what is in the Bible are letters to people who were already saved, and so few of them could sin severely enough to go there. My take on this Scripture is that both body and soul will burn forever (Matt. 10:28), as it will be a very different kind of body (I Cor. 15:22).

ALTER2EGO -to- KENISYES:
You said the lake of fire answers to hell, and then you presented Revelation 20:14-15 as proof of that. I hope you will quote the verses and point out where you got that idea by bolding the words you want to draw to the attention of others.

BTW: Did you realize the book of Revelation is written mostly in figurative speech aka symbolic language?


As I'm sure you know, figurative or symbolic speech has a much deeper meaning than its face value. For instance, the Yield sign that controls automobile traffic is figurative or symbolic speech. When a motorist comes across a dark yellow triangular sign, he or she must realize that its literal meaning is: "Yield to traffic that is already on the road." If a motorist were to take the yellow triangular Yield sign at face value and say to him or herself: "What a cheerful yellow triangle," and then proceed to ignore its deeper meaning while traffic approaches, guess what will happen?

Similarly, the book of Revelation is full of symbolism. Symbols cannot be taken at face value because their meanings are much deeper.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Discernment takes training.

I have a question for Alter2Ego...


Do you believe Jesus is God?

ALTER2EGO -to- JIMMY DIGGS:
What I or anybody else "believes" is hardly the issue; now is it? What God's inspired Word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, says on the matter is what's important. Don't you agree? The Bible should be the final authority on all matters dealing with religious doctrines. So let's see what the scriptures say. Below is one I am sure you are familiar with. Keep your eyes on the words in bold print within the scriptural quotation.

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:31 -- New International Version)


"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. (John 20:31 -- King James Version)


"But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name." (John 20:31 -- New World Translation)


"But these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing, you may have life in his name." (John 20:31 -- Douay-Rheims Bible)


"but these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31 -- World English Bible)



QUESTION #1 to JIMMY DIGGS: According to the five Bibles I quoted from, who is Jesus Christ is?


QUESTION #2 to JIMMY DIGGS: Do you accept what God is saying by means of his instruction guide, the Judeo-Christian Bible? Or do you think it's okay to go beyond what is written therein?

 

[Alter2Ego]

Gosh heaps to read here..ok brief ,Trinity is not a scriptural word.. GOD (Godhead)..Jesus Christ..(the word)..Holy Spirit (the power to bring what was spoken into being)...these three are one in spirit and purpose..(when you recieve the Holy Spirit yourself you SEE how this is possible, not in our human 2dimesional thinking).God is not part of..HE IS !!!...in Revelations alpha and omega, first and last, are mentioned as attributed to Yahweh GOD..yet,Re 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys ofand of death. umm when did God die ??

but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
umm but hey this is the GOSPEL, GOOD NEWS..you can be saved from this..ie acts 2.4 2.38 mark 16.15 -end etc

ALTER2EGO -to- SAINT-JOHN:
All you've done is cherry picked verses and ignored their context (the surrounding words, verses and chapters). Without paying attention to context, it is easy for people to apply whatever meaning suits them, based upon their preconceived ideas.

Suppose we deal with one scripture at a time. Select one from your list above that you feel is the most compelling to prove your case, and we will start from there and gradually work our way through the other verses. How does that sound?

 

[Alter2Ego]

I tend to take my Biblical, and historical studies very seriously, including understanding the ancient heresies surrounding the early Church, and their influence in the modern day. With that being said, it is generally very easy for me to recognize a Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Oneness Pentecostal, or Socinian from the crowd with minimal information provided, and for this I give thanks to God.

Putting that aside, the reason that you find no information on this users profile is because she must remain anonymous. The Watchtower does not permit its members to partake in theological discussions online, so the consequences would be severe if they were to ever find out. However, with that said, there's certainly traces of evidence sitting before you of Alter2Ego's affiliation with the Witnesses if you only took the time to look close enough.

Consider the following:

(1) Denial of the Trinity
(2) Denial of everlasting torment, and traces of annihilationism
(3) Borrowed arguments from Watchtower literature, namely, "Should You Believe in the Trinity?"
(4) The word-for-word citation of Psalm 83.18, as it reads in her signature, is nowhere to be found in any English translation other than the New World Translation, a Watchtower publication (see attachments)​

ALTER2EGO -to- GRACE BE UNTO YOU:
A convenient way of avoiding the issue of this thread--namely, the difference between what the Bible actually teaches vs. traditions of men--is to do what you are doing: go on a witch hunt. You are displaying religious intolerance towards people of certain religious affiliations, as if to say they are unworthy of Bible discussions. Jesus Christ our redeemer and exampler instructed his disciples to go and make disciples of people of all the nations.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Matthew 28:19 -- New American Standard Bible)


"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" (Matthew 28:19 -- King James Version)


Never mind that several others on this forum started threads on the topics of Trinity and hellfire torment, but you singled me out and immediately began making an issue of religious affiliation as a means of evading the issue of the thread.

If you are so convinced that Trinity and hellfire torment are Bible teachings, why are you trying to change the topic of this thread? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that I intend to use the Bible as the authority when discussing those doctrines. The questions in my OP are proof of that.

In other words, your battle is not with me or with Jehovah's Witnesses or any religious affiliation for that matter. The challenge is for you to overcome what the Bible really says or does not say in support of Trinity and hellfire torment. That's the issue we must all confront: what the Bible really says.

 

[Laodicea]

The Bible does not teach eternal torment and is a false doctrine. The word trinity is not in the Bible but the Bible does teach plurality within God.