Proclaiming the gospel, then and now

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A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#21
#21
Another path would have been to do some research before leveling condemnation and heaping judgement upon God's evangelists based on a short video clip.

I've heard Todd both condemn sin and call people to repentance. But he does like to get their attention first by praying for them and he does believe that one can have a relationship with God in Christ without jumping through all of the religious hoops and burdens you may require.

I would dare say that Todd regularly leads far more people through the prayer of repentance into salvation per week than you do.

Condemnation followed by appeal to repentance as the first response to everyone you meet that is not a Christian may be the only style that you will accept and only people that operate in this (e.g. your) style bring you comfortable fellowship but, believe it or not, that's not the only first response to a non-believer God will accept.

Some of us like to build relationships with people we meet on the street for a few minutes so they know we are genuine and feel loved before leading them through the prayer of repentance.

My advice would be to try not to be so uber-critical of everyone working to expand God's kingdom that doesn't immediately condemn people for their sin and call them to repent within the first few minutes of every single person they meet (like you do).

I say like you do because after your criticism, if you're not doing that with everyone you meet that isn't a Christian: than you're being hypocritical in addition to uber-critical.


marianna said:
So, at about 5:20 he tells these kids they are 'called to be part of a radical generation of people' who "don't go to church" but go around "doing all this stuff"..."Don't you want to do all these miracles, man? These signs and wonders and stuff?"

Nothing about the Cross or sin or repentance.
No Gospel or Law. No teaching at all. Just a random encounter on the street.

And I'm not encouraged by his fellowship.

from CBN:
"He [Todd White] has been blessed to receive impartation from Randy Clark, Bill Johnson, Roland & Heidi Baker, and Benny Hinn."

Receive impartation? From Benny Hinn? How is that a good thing?

And that's Patricia King with him.

Todd Bentley, Bob Jones, and Patricia King Practice Astral Projection
Click to expand...
 
C

carolineh

Banned
#22
Sep 10, 2012
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#22
Jesus did miraculous signs and wonders to show He is Almighty God and so we could trust His word and the words of those who He chose to witness up closely His Words and His life..He gave them the power of signs and wonders to show that their testimonies could be trusted...their words are encapsulated in the new testament....who in this day and age can directly testify to the life, words, teachings and ministry of Jesus..NOBODY..so naturally signs and wonders did cease after the death of the people in the first century church and they resumed again when charismatics decided to become exalted in the eyes of the world..that does not mean to say that God does not heal people from all kinds of infirmities in this day and age but He has not granted anyone those miraculous powers or else we would see many people returning from death to life and testifying to that happening..where God's word has been removed, there may be a manifestation of the miraculous signs and wonders accompanying missionaries who bring in God's word to those people who have been denied it..more often, God will answer the prayers of missionaries who bring God's word to those cultures who have never heard the gospel
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#23
#23
carolineh, while it is true that the more charismatic forms of leadership did give way to more ordered institutional leadership with the passing of time, charismatic and the institutional existed side by side from the first century through the present. There never were two diametrically opposed patterns (e.g. Charismatic versus Institutional) but rather differing degrees of emphasis and a tendency for the process of institutionalization to become more pronounced through the centuries until modern times when the degree of emphasis began to reverse itself (as the Bible says it would toward the end of this present age).

So, it's no surprise that we read of miracles in ancient Christian literature occurring through the various ages of the church from the apostolic period through the present. In fact, there is an abundance of evidence that miracles have been happening throughout the history of the Church.

For example, Irenaeus wrote in Against Heresies 5:6:1 (A.D. 185):

"In like manner we do also hear many brethren in the church, who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men, and declare the mysteries of God."

Many of the other early church fathers referred to the operation of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit, and recorded other miraculous phenomena which took place in their day, including demonic activity.

Even Augustine of Hippo (a.D. 354- 430), who had originally adopted the view that miracles had ceased with the apostolic age, changed his opinion during the last two or three years of his life after witnessing them as a result of a revival in North Africa, where Augustine lived. Augustine began to publicize the miraculous healings in North Africa, and as bishop in Hippo, he examined and recorded each report that came to his attention. He gave verified reports of healings a maximum of publicity, and he insisted upon receiving a written report from every person who claimed to be healed.

Venerable Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People, written in A.D. 731 contains verified Christian healings. This valuable resource is known for its separation of historical fact from hearsay and tradition (as Bede was a very careful scholar).

On and on it goes...
 
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carolineh

Banned
#24
Sep 10, 2012
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#24
my husband would like you to find us a modern day person who does miraculous healings that have been completely proven and verified
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#25
#25
I already have. Todd White certainly qualifies. You two apparently have strong unbelief in God giving the gift of healing to the body today. Have you considered getting involved at a healing room near you? People do get healed (or sometimes partially healed as in my case). Watching people get healed might just be what you both need.

Healing Rooms - Choose Healing Room to View
 
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carolineh

Banned
#26
Sep 10, 2012
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#26
I went to a new report site on Todd White and there was an episode on Todd White and the amputee...did not see the amputee miraculously grow a new limb
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#27
#27
You sure are being uber-selective. People are being healed left and right in those videos but you're complaining because in a particular video Todd stops an amputee and states that he's never seen an amputee be healed YET but prays for him anyways because he believes all things are possible with God. That's Todd being genuine and posting a video of his experience with amputees and sharing his belief that God can do something that he hasn't personally yet seen in his lifetime. That's called transparency.


carolineh said:
I went to a new report site on Todd White and there was an episode on Todd White and the amputee...did not see the amputee miraculously grow a new limb
Click to expand...
 
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carolineh

Banned
#28
Sep 10, 2012
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#28
did not see Todd bring anyone back to life neither
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#29
#29
Todd is an evangelist who manifests the Biblical gift of healing to the extent God gives him.

Do you really expect him to walk through cemetaries and see the corpses come to life and dig out of their graves?

You're being quite silly. I have things to do. Goodbye.

carolineh said:
did not see Todd bring anyone back to life neither
Click to expand...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#30
#30
In the NT, people went to the world to do healings and other signs, they did not bring people into the church to do them. A modern day person would do the same.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#31
#31
Noone in the early church went out with cameras preaching
God loves them...unless they were talking about the cross
to save them from the wrath of God.

No time are we told to preach a different gospel
of psychology.

It is a weak arguement to belittle cessasionists then offer as an
alternative a group of heretics then tell us we have a dim view of things,
if we dont buy it.

Folks we have to judge by the message people are teaching.
If all you want is a miracle...go to india, or find a shaman.
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#32
#32
John 20:
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book;
31 but these (signs) are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

How can anyone think that signs, wonders, and miracles
have not helped people believe in Jesus and His "foolish" gospel message?

And why wouldn't S/W/M help people today?
This has always been God's method ... see: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/51447-huge-wake-up-call-cessationists.html

.
 
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carolineh

Banned
#33
Sep 10, 2012
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#33
it is a wicked and adulterous generation who seek after signs and wonders
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#34
#34
AtonedFor said:
John 20:
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book;
31 but these (signs) are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

How can anyone think that signs, wonders, and miracles
have not helped people believe in Jesus and His "foolish" gospel message?

And why wouldn't S/W/M help people today?
This has always been God's method ... see: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/51447-huge-wake-up-call-cessationists.html

.
Click to expand...
What you are saying might have merit if it wasnt for the Word..."written"
That means that the signs He did showed us He was the messiah,
and they were "written" not reenacted that we might believe "He" not others
was the Son of God so we might have life through His name.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#35
#35
A common argument amongst heresy hunters, cessationalists, and skeptics goes like this:

“any time the Bible mentions signs and wonders, it’s negative”. They also say, “a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.”

This view takes Scriptures out of context and here's a good article explaining many of the reasons why:

Seeking After Signs & Wonders | Revival Answers

I'm off to Bible Study. Peace.

carolineh said:
it is a wicked and adulterous generation who seek after signs and wonders
Click to expand...
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#36
#36
you dont have to be a cessationists to see through the false
signs and wonders today.

All true believers believe in the power of God and understand
He will do signs and wonders when it pleases Him to do so.
 
C

carolineh

Banned
#37
Sep 10, 2012
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#37
Jesus did not chastise the would be followers of His who were seeking after false signs and wonders when He said it is a wicked and adulterous generation that seek after signs and wonders...He was annoyed that people were seeking after the manifestations of the spirit of God without seeking after God Himself and that is what people do today..no wonder God had the miraculous gifts stop by the end of the first century..He is very wise
 
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megaman125

Guest
#38
#38
carolineh said:
my husband would like you to find us a modern day person who does miraculous healings that have been completely proven and verified
Click to expand...
I'll name a couple.

Smith wigglesworth (1859-1947)
A.L. Gill (still alive today)

carolineh said:
I went to a new report site on Todd White and there was an episode on Todd White and the amputee...did not see the amputee miraculously grow a new limb
Click to expand...
Dr. A.L. Gill has reports of amputees re-growing hands.

carolineh said:
did not see Todd bring anyone back to life neither
Click to expand...
Smith Wigglesworth

carolineh said:
it is a wicked and adulterous generation who seek after signs and wonders
Click to expand...
I also recall in the Bible that the Pharisees hated and rejected Jesus after Jesus performed healing miracles, and instead of giving credit to God for the healings, the pharisees gave credit to satan and evil spirits. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be on the side of the pharisees here (psst, they were wrong).

In my opinion, the reason some people aren't seeing these healing and miracles take place is becuase they spend more time convinced that it's not true and doesn't/can't happen than they do believing that they can lay hands on the sick and they shall be healed. The Bible tells us to be doers of the word, not just hearers. The reason Christians aren't seeing it happen is because they're not doing. Jesus said WE have to lay hands on the sick, that requires action on our part, not just faith without doing.
 
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carolineh

Banned
#39
Sep 10, 2012
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#39
Smith Wigglesworth was not proven and tested..he supposedly performed three miracles..one on his wife and one on a friend and those miracles were not really that incredible and it was he who claimed the miracles..not a verifiable witness
 
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megaman125

Guest
#40
#40
carolineh said:
Smith Wigglesworth was not proven and tested..he supposedly performed three miracles..one on his wife and one on a friend and those miracles were not really that incredible and it was he who claimed the miracles..not a verifiable witness
Click to expand...
All you do is deny anything and everything related to healing miracles that happened in the name of Jesus. He did a lot more than 3, but you were too busy denying to notice or care. Why do you insist on grouping yourself with the pharisees? You sit there and complain that "it wasn't proven," because your mindset is nothing but denial, so proof and evidence is irrelevant to you as you have no intentions of believing anyways. And you complain "it wasn't tested," as if you need to repeatedly make demands of God before you believe that God still does healing miracles today.
 
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