I needs some help with the "Antichrist" prophecies.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 29, 2012
86
0
0
#21
I think only the 144 thousand Overcomers disappear and I think most of those are already dead, waiting to be resurrected. I will be surprised if we even notice this event until we look back. Most fulfillment of prophecy is that way. This is Jesus sitting on the cloud with the sickle reaping the fruit of the earth.

I also think, "no one knows the day or the hour" applied to 70AD (I think virually all of Matthew 24 did) but it could also apply generally to everything God does.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#22
Whereas Obama has an interesting spirit of lawlessness about him that might suggest to some that he is the Antichrist, I think if we look at Daniel and 1 and 2 John and Revelation, we'll see that the spirit of antichrist has been alive and kicking ever since John mentions it in his letters, in the first century. Satan, of course is behind this spirit and 'person' of lawlessness, for Satan himself is lawlessness. Satan himself helped in the fall at the garden when he suggested that man could disobey God and not die. So really, that spirit of antichrist has been around from the beginning.

I know that the popular belief in mainstream Christianity is to think that an Antichrist figure is going to arise at some point in the future, sign some kind of 7-year peace treaty with Israel and break that treaty with Isreal 3 1/2 years down the road. Of course, there is also a theory running rampant that a rapture (some will say a secret one) of the church will occur BEFORE the 7 year tribulation begins.

I believe that people get that idea from a misinterpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy, found in Daniel 9. I believe that the prohecy is actually talking about Jesus Himself, who confirmed the new covenant (they call peace treaty) with Israel, during their last 7 years of the time that was alloted to them to be God's exclusive chosen people. After that last week of the 70 weeks (490 years between the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem and it's temple after the Babylonian captivity, the gospel was opened up to the gentiles as well.) The prophecy does state that the people of the prince to come will be the abomination that causes desolation to Jerusalem, destroying the city and the temple. Jesus talks of this coming destruction in Matthew 24 and corresponding verses in Luke. Was that prophecy fulfilled or is it yet in the future, as many people today claim?

Interestingly, the apostles wrote their letters to the churches with a certain sence of urgency... saying things like 'it is the last hour' and so forth. When we first look at that, we might think that they are speaking of our times, but we are living almost 2000 years down the road from when they were! Could it mean something else? Paul talked about the day of the Lord and how it would not come until the falling away happened first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, but something was restraining it. John speaks of the antichrist as a spirit that was among them, that it had departed from the true faith and went out from them. Ok, so Paul and Peter were both martyred in Rome sometime in the mid '60's AD. A chart of Popes for the catholic church has the first pope being Peter, followed by a person named Linus in the mid 60's AD, around the same time or just after Paul was martyred. It is interesting that the Roman armies, which Luke actually defines as the 'abomination of desolation', laid seige of Jerusalem for about 4 years before they eventually captured the city and destroyed the temple in 70 AD. This ends the 70 week prophecy. It was fulfilled. It also shows that the 'Antichrist/Little Horn/Beast/Whore of Babylon' or the 'prince that was to come that would have abominations and desolations', began to grow in the mid 60's AD, around the deaths of Peter and Paul. Hmmm. The people of the prince to come was the Roman army. Daniel tells us that the little horn would come out of the 4th beast or empire, which is Rome. The little horn would be different from the other horns in various ways, and it's rising up would be mysterious. Babylon is referred to as being a 'whore' with a sign that says 'Mystery'. A little bit of research and study will show that these descriptions of the little horn/babylon/man of lawlessness, all fit one particular religious entity, the Holy Roman Catholic Church. For a lot of detail into this, you could check out the thread by Gotime on Daniel 7. He explains it quite thoroughly.

The rapture theory began taking root in the 1800's, but I cannot see how anyone can get the idea of a rapture of the church before a tribulation, causing Jesus to return not only a second time, but a third time as well. It seems that the 'Rapture', which is a word one won't find anywhere in scripture, has replaced the Resurrection, that Paul and Jesus and Peter speak of in the New Testament. One thing that the scriptures are clear about - the dead in Christ will be resurrected at His coming. 1 Cor. 15. When will that be? At the last day, according to Jesus, who spoke these words four times in the book of John
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
all good...except Rome is the distraction.
she's dressed up just like the Mother USED TO BE.

look further east.
THAT'S where it's all going down.


i don't have it readily at hand but will look for it in my files, or anyone can find it themselves.
Temple Mount Faithful's Gershon Salomon is on Youtube, actually saying (pp):

Judaism is the Mother of Christianity and Islam, and they must all come back to Mother.
 
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
59
0
#23
First, the antichrist doesn't come from America.
Second, America is done away with(as a nation), before the antichrist hits the seen.
Truthfully Elizabeth, if I could give you a word of advice..........
If your boyfriend will not relent......if he insists that Obama is the antichrist at all costs.....maybe you should let him go.\
Because if he is so headstrong about this; how unwilling do you think he will be about other things?
All I'm saying is gauge it and mark how headstrong he is.
You don't want to enter into the rest of your life with an 'emperor' of ideas.
Hopefully he relents and you all live happily ever after.
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#24
First off I want to say HEYYYY YALL!!!! I'm back! *evil grin*

Second off.... I need help. Here is the story..

So, I'm dating this guy. He is pretty cool, but we got in to the discussion of Obama and the whole antichrist deal. He firmly believes Obama is the antichrist. I do not.

He told me to prove to him he is not. I gave him scripture. Told him of the actual prophecies, and he still doesn't accept this.

Wuteva floats yer boat dear... I can't get past the dating a guy who is oppositional with you... I prefer harmony in my "personal realtionships".
Who likes Obama....ewwww.
I site Still... no tarring volunteer here.
sorry.
 
T

Trax

Guest
#25
First off I want to say HEYYYY YALL!!!! I'm back! *evil grin*

Second off.... I need help. Here is the story..

So, I'm dating this guy. He is pretty cool, but we got in to the discussion of Obama and the whole antichrist deal. He firmly believes Obama is the antichrist. I do not.

He told me to prove to him he is not. I gave him scripture. Told him of the actual prophecies, and he still doesn't accept this.

So....... I am asking you fine people for help(I'm apparently desperate to ask people on here because yall like to argue)

I need evidence the Antichrist is not our president, and we are not about to be raptured December 21.

This is also not a thread to argue. I am seriously asking for help. If you believe Obama is the antichrist then please move on. I need evidence he is NOT.

If arguments do begin I will ask for your posts to be deleted. Don't know if they will, but I will not respond to you for the sake of fighting.
Well, we don't really know if Obama is the anti-christ or not, but I doubt it. The anti-christ will be the
little horn that comes up and up roots a couple other horns. The Pres of the USA is a very big horn,
where horn is a symbol of leadership. So I doubt any President of the USA will be anti-christ.
I suspect it will be someone from the UN.

The whole deal about Obama recently, IMO, is to condition the world. To get people to thinking
along those lines. The anti-christ, when he appears, will have about 7 years to work. A lot
of the conditions will be already in place and he just steps in and takes control.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#27
well the easy way would just be to wait four years until obama's second term ends...and if obama hasn't taken over the world by then...theory debunked!

i think the misunderstanding behind a lot of the theories of contemporary political leaders being 'the antichrist' is that people tend to confuse the man of lawlessness with the beast from the sea and the antichrists and the little horn...when really the bible gives them all very different descriptions that really do not overlap...

do away with the unfounded assumption that all of these entities are the same thing...and you do away with most of contemporary 'pinky and the brain' eschatology altogether...including any theory that obama is the antichrist...
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#28
Hey, Beth! :)

I have nothing to offer you that you don't already know...

but I will be praying for your discussion. ♥

-ellie
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#29
ps---it's really good to see you back. :)
 
G

GRA

Guest
#30
I believe that people get that idea from a misinterpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy, found in Daniel 9. I believe that the prohecy is actually talking about Jesus Himself, who confirmed the new covenant (they call peace treaty) with Israel, during their last 7 years of the time that was alloted to them to be God's exclusive chosen people. After that last week of the 70 weeks (490 years between the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem and it's temple after the Babylonian captivity, the gospel was opened up to the gentiles as well.) The prophecy does state that the people of the prince to come will be the abomination that causes desolation to Jerusalem, destroying the city and the temple. Jesus talks of this coming destruction in Matthew 24 and corresponding verses in Luke. Was that prophecy fulfilled or is it yet in the future, as many people today claim?

Interestingly, the apostles wrote their letters to the churches with a certain sence of urgency... saying things like 'it is the last hour' and so forth. When we first look at that, we might think that they are speaking of our times, but we are living almost 2000 years down the road from when they were! Could it mean something else? Paul talked about the day of the Lord and how it would not come until the falling away happened first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, but something was restraining it. John speaks of the antichrist as a spirit that was among them, that it had departed from the true faith and went out from them. Ok, so Paul and Peter were both martyred in Rome sometime in the mid '60's AD. A chart of Popes for the catholic church has the first pope being Peter, followed by a person named Linus in the mid 60's AD, around the same time or just after Paul was martyred. It is interesting that the Roman armies, which Luke actually defines as the 'abomination of desolation', laid seige of Jerusalem for about 4 years before they eventually captured the city and destroyed the temple in 70 AD. This ends the 70 week prophecy. It was fulfilled. It also shows that the 'Antichrist/Little Horn/Beast/Whore of Babylon' or the 'prince that was to come that would have abominations and desolations', began to grow in the mid 60's AD, around the deaths of Peter and Paul. Hmmm. The people of the prince to come was the Roman army. Daniel tells us that the little horn would come out of the 4th beast or empire, which is Rome. The little horn would be different from the other horns in various ways, and it's rising up would be mysterious. Babylon is referred to as being a 'whore' with a sign that says 'Mystery'. A little bit of research and study will show that these descriptions of the little horn/babylon/man of lawlessness, all fit one particular religious entity, the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
"Correct - the '70 weeks of Daniel' - 'came and went' - unbroken -- prophecy fulfilled..."

:)

.
 
D

Disdame45

Guest
#31
From Zone:
i don't have it readily at hand but will look for it in my files, or anyone can find it themselves.
Temple Mount Faithful's Gershon Salomon is on Youtube, actually saying (pp):

Judaism is the Mother of Christianity and Islam, and they must all come back to Mother.[/quote]


I don't doubt that someone did have the above quote, as I have heard similar quotes come out of the vatican itself regarding her 'daughters', the protestants. She, the RCC, has been calling them to come back to her. If Rome is a distraction, it's a really good one. The truth and the believers that worship in Spirit and in truth, are hard to find in this world of delusion, whether it be Judaism, Christianity or Islam or any of the other world religions. What I have found interesting is how the world religious leaders and the representatives of the various protestant denominations and political world leaders all come before the pope (who sits on his throne claiming to be god on earth), bowing before him and/or kissing his hand. I don't know if I see that kind of adoration shown toward any Jewish leaders out there, but I could be wrong.
Another interesting thing I saw on a youtube video was an interview of George W. Bush saying he saw God when he looked into the eyes of Pope Benedict XVI. That's kind of creepy, don't you think?
But if you could expound a bit on how Rome is a distraction and that the 'Antichrist' is really Israel itself, I would certainly take what you have to say into consideration.

Here is a link to the video of George Bush - Bush Sees God - YouTube
Here is another video of protestants being presented before the pope in an ecumenical service -
Protestant heads bow down to Pope Benedict XVI!!! - YouTube
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#32
First determine what are all the characteristics of the this so called "anti-christ" or "lawless one", then see if Obama fits them all. He has to fit them all to be the one.

Sorry dear, I'm not going to spend the hours involved here to put together all the characteristics for the identification of a factitious individual.

You could ask Him how Obama's name fits 666?

Bottom line is probably this, if he really believes Pres. Obama is the antichrist then there will be no convincing him otherwise.

"After God provided the prophet Daniel with a panoramic vision of the rise and fall of kings from Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar to the Grecian Alexander the Great, he revealed painstaking details of a terrible seven-year tribulation that would befall the saints during the beastly reign of the despotic Antiochus IV Epiphances" - "Did Daniel Prophesy a Seven-year Great Tribulation?" by Hank Hanegraaff in the Christian Research Journal Vol. 35, pg 22.

BTW, Good to see you back!! ;)
 
Last edited:

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#34
From Zone:
i don't have it readily at hand but will look for it in my files, or anyone can find it themselves.
Temple Mount Faithful's Gershon Salomon is on Youtube, actually saying (pp):

Judaism is the Mother of Christianity and Islam, and they must all come back to Mother.

I don't doubt that someone did have the above quote, as I have heard similar quotes come out of the vatican itself regarding her 'daughters', the protestants. She, the RCC, has been calling them to come back to her. If Rome is a distraction, it's a really good one. The truth and the believers that worship in Spirit and in truth, are hard to find in this world of delusion, whether it be Judaism, Christianity or Islam or any of the other world religions. What I have found interesting is how the world religious leaders and the representatives of the various protestant denominations and political world leaders all come before the pope (who sits on his throne claiming to be god on earth), bowing before him and/or kissing his hand. I don't know if I see that kind of adoration shown toward any Jewish leaders out there, but I could be wrong.
Another interesting thing I saw on a youtube video was an interview of George W. Bush saying he saw God when he looked into the eyes of Pope Benedict XVI. That's kind of creepy, don't you think?
But if you could expound a bit on how Rome is a distraction and that the 'Antichrist' is really Israel itself, I would certainly take what you have to say into consideration.

Here is a link to the video of George Bush - Bush Sees God - YouTube
Here is another video of protestants being presented before the pope in an ecumenical service -
Protestant heads bow down to Pope Benedict XVI!!! - YouTube
hi Disdame.
signing off for today, but i'm happy to post on this tomorrow.
i don't see a CAPITAL A antichrist in scripture.
there's a bad guy, for sure.

but the vatican is not the mother of harlots.
jerusalem in Revelation is (was).
Jesus was not crucified in Rome.
they are in it together, just like they were 2000 years ago.

btw: do you know who pope 'benedict' is (was)?

GW is creepy anyway:)
world leaders may bow down and kiss the pope's ring...but he (they) have been in the age of transition, handing over the catholic church, right on schedule.
this pope answers to others.

bye for now:)
zone.
 
D

Disdame45

Guest
#35
Zone,
Thank you for agreeing to share more of what you know on the subject. I'll look forward to seeing your post.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#36
thats twice now jb cute but dumb

watch:

Romans 15:Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises(covenant) made unto the fathers

if Dan9:27 isnt fulfilled then 70ad never happened. Israels covenant wasnt filfilled
your not grafted in and your still dead in your sins.
 
Nov 25, 2012
6
0
0
#37
Welcome back Elizabeth!

A lot of people these days are wondering What is this world coming to? The trust is, only HE knows! We all can speculate, scholars love to claim they have all of the answers, but when it comes down to it, it is only our ideas. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Matthew 24:36
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#38
...twice...but dumb...
The little animated .gif simply illustrares what I think of the comment, that Dan 9v27 is fulfilled...it just ISN'T!

And sowhat if I've used it twice (I'll certainly use it again, if I think appropriate :p), it really drives home the absurdity of the comment that is expressed in relation to Dan 9v27...

The problem is not my understanding of it, but yours (you seem to be a little bit confused)...my dear brother! ;)

Yahweh Shalom...
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#39
The little animated .gif simply illustrares what I think of the comment, that Dan 9v27 is fulfilled...it just ISN'T!

And sowhat if I've used it twice (I'll certainly use it again, if I think appropriate :p), it really drives home the absurdity of the comment that is expressed in relation to Dan 9v27...

The problem is not my understanding of it, but yours (you seem to be a little bit confused)...my dear brother! ;)

Yahweh Shalom...
Oh its fulfilled for sure, youd know that but where
the scriptures would fit into your brain theres a gap.:)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
Why is Obama not the Antichrist?

1. He is not the little horn of Dan 7, who comes from the fourth beast, which was broken and then reformed. Rome)

2. He is not the leader who comes out of the reformed roman empire of daniel 9, of the people who destroy the sanctuary and city, Obama also has no power over the world, in which he can make peace, He can not even make peace in his own country, He has his own country divided to the point that if things do not change, his country will suffer the same fate of rome

3. He is not powerfull. Rev says he will have such great power. all the world will ask who is able to overcome him. The world is so little scared of the US and her great power they take planes and fly them into buildings. They take children and woman and strap bombs to them so they can kill us.

4. America is evidently powerless in the end times prophesies, it is evident by the fact she is not mentioned even once as a powerful gentile nation (only 4 are mentioned) thus no American leader would be used by Satan to do the things we are told this "man of sin" is capable of doing.

I could go on and on and on. but this thinking obama is the man is no different then when I was growing up and it was gobachov, the man with the scar on his head. it is nuts!