What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist etc

[AgeofKnowledge]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

It is an ignorant thing you are doing in setting yourself up against the consensus of the world's historical scholars on an issue they have already weighed, qualified, and determined to be false.

And I wrote that article. You see, the thesis for my second master's degree was on the issue of whether or not the Christian worldview was dependent on paganism and I am qualified to discuss the topic. Biottom line: It wasn't.

These similarities you assert are not really similarities. You're just too ignorant to understand why. If you had actually read the article, rather than just shout ad hominem, you would have begun to see how they are falsified when properly qualified in their historical context.

You see friend, early Christianity is an exclusive historical monotheistic religion (deriving from an earlier Hebrew belief system) with a definitive body of doctrine asserting that the death and resurrection of Christ happened to a historical person at a particular time and has absolutely no parallel in any of the pagan mystery religions. Alleged parallels between Christianity and the mysteries are imaginary or exaggerated and the genuine parallels that remain are not synergetic except as the Christian influences later pagan systems.

But you're understanding of history, Christian epstimology, ancient pagan religion, and also the disciplines of logic and philosophy (useful in the vetting process) are rudimentary at best. So, you fall into the error of wrongly assertion a Christian syncretism that never existed.

There are too many similarities between Christianity and pagan
religion to ignore. I can point them out if you're interested.

Your link is from a Christian website so there is obvious bias.
It is like reading "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel. In his
book he only interviews Christian scholars. Why not here
the secular side of the story?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

It's important to point out that one can be a Christian regardless of whether or not they believe in neo-Darwinian/Darwinian evolution (also today sometimes called general evolution or macro evolution to differentiate it from micro evolution).

Some of the world's brightest scientists have converted to Christianity based on the evidence for the Christian worldview they encountered in their studies. Many of these do hold to general evolution within the context of theism (e.g. theistic evolution).

Thousands of these top scientists belong to an organization called Biologos which Francis Collins (the previous director of the Human Genome project and perhaps the best and brightest physician-geneticist on the planet) started.

A couple hundred thousand scientists, researchers, and educators belong to an "old-earth" organization called Reasons To Believe and have constructed a TESTABLE old-earth scientific creation model that competes directly with neo-Darwinian models.

Ok thanks Rick. Do you believe in a young earth? I stumbled upon this website and there is much evidence pointing
to an old earth in this thread:

Why The Bible Claims Are Bs - Creation Vs. Evolution - Science vs. Religion - Ex-Christian.Net

Also, can't we determine how long light takes to get to us from stars? Some of these are millions and billions of light years away.
But according to scripture the earth was created first, right? This is where I have a hard time because of the scientific conflicts.

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

So all this is nonsense?

ExChristian.Net - Articles: Is Christianity based on pagan roots?

Which historical scholars? Christian ones? Do they have a vested interest in presenting Christianity as true? Sorry, but from what is readily
available on the internet it seems the opinion is widely divided. This issue needs unbiased eyes. Obviously, the claims are either true or false
so which is it?

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

It's important to point out that one can be a Christian regardless of whether or not they believe in neo-Darwinian/Darwinian evolution (also today sometimes called general evolution or macro evolution to differentiate it from micro evolution).

Some of the world's brightest scientists have converted to Christianity based on the evidence for the Christian worldview they encountered in their studies. Many of these do hold to general evolution within the context of theism (e.g. theistic evolution).

Thousands of these top scientists belong to an organization called Biologos which Francis Collins (the previous director of the Human Genome project and perhaps the best and brightest physician-geneticist on the planet) started.

A couple hundred thousand scientists, researchers, and educators belong to an "old-earth" organization called Reasons To Believe and have constructed a TESTABLE old-earth scientific creation model that competes directly with neo-Darwinian models.

Sorry but evolving from an ape like ancestor and a much earlier Devonian fish trumps the whole thing for me.
There's really not any way around that one. I've actually read Francis Collins book but there is no solid evidence just experience.

 

[TheKringledOne]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

It's hardly science is it?
These are philosophical views held by men.
No science at all.
At best what they put forth are mere hypotheses.
Again, with no dialectical sciece(see, hear, taste, prove) to back up their claims.
I will show you(if you stay), a statistical proof of the inability for life to spontaneously create itself.

You might want to watch the whole video and look at all the experiments,

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Sorry for what? Solid evidence for what?

Francis Collins is an evolutionist. As an evolutionist, obviously he never attempted to refute evolution in his book.

In fact, the orgainzation's mission statement he started "is committed to exploring and celebrating the compatibility of evolutionary creation and biblical faith."

Here's another organization dedicated to examining the evidence for God from a scientific viewpoint. It is called Evidence For God From Science.

Now hominids are distinct from modern humans. Though many biological similarities exist between the hominids and modern humans there are also significant differences. The greatest distinctions between modern humans and the hominids can be seen in their cognitive capacity, behavior patterns, technological development, and culture, especially artistic and religious expression.interand also do not believe. These distinctions are significant enough that even Eldridge and Gould's punctuated equilibrium cannot account for them in my view.

And you need to revisit the Devonian fish. For as Deem put it:

"A recent discovery of fossilized tracks in Poland, reliably dated at 395 million years ago, have turned tetrapod evolution on its head. All the previously discovered so-called "transitional" forms and intermediates occurred at least 10 million years after the new tetrapod was already walking on land. What makes matters worse for evolutionists is that this was a true tetrapod, with completely developed feet, toes, and claws. In addition, this animal was large - at least 8 feet long.

Other, smaller tracks were also found at the same location, suggesting the existence of a complete ecosystem of animals. In contrast to the poorly developed "intermediates," which dragged themselves over land, this animal had a modern amphibian-like gate, not even dragging its tail in the mud. What is even more puzzling to evolutionists is the fact that it was hunting on land. So, the discovery suggests the possible existence of a complete ecosystem, before evolutionists thought tetrapods even existed. Previous trackway footprints had suggested that tetrapods were walking on land 385 million years ago, although the tracks were not as clear as those in the current study.

The existence of a fully land-adapted tetrapod 395 million years ago has completely destroyed the reigning evolutionary paradigm of the fish to land dwelling animal evolutionary hypothesis. Not only did this creature exist before its "transitional" ancestors, but it was already fully adapted to living on land, with feet, toes and claws. Evolutionary biologists are stuck with trying to find the ancestor of this creature, perhaps existing at least 420 million years ago. Their excuse is the classic one - "ghost lineages," according to the authors of the new study. The alternative, but not "scientific" explanation is that God created tetrapods in fully formed ecological communities as part of His preparation of earth for habitation by human beings."

1. Niedźwiedzki, G., P. Szrek, K. Narkiewicz, M. Narkiewicz, and P.E. Ahlberg. 2010. Tetrapod trackways from the early Middle Devonian period of Poland. Nature 463:43-48.
2. Stössel, I. 1995. The discovery of a new Devonian tetrapod trackway in SW Ireland. J. Geol. Soc. 152, 407-413.

Sorry but evolving from an ape like ancestor and a much earlier Devonian fish trumps the whole thing for me.
There's really not any way around that one. I've actually read Francis Collins book but there is no solid evidence just experience.

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Again, all this info is taken from a pro-Christian website. Bias alert! Facts are facts. Stretching and molding evidence to get the the answer
you want in the end is not helping your cause.

A dead giveaway of this sham is blatant with the many creationist and Christian apologetics videos on youtube. Notice how most of them
disable comments and/or ratings. It's because they don't want to hear the contradicting evidence, in other words the truth.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

For someone who doesn't like biased sources, you sure found one of your own... lol. That article makes all of the classic mistakes. It is junk literature.

The first thing you need to understand is that historical scholars never find Christianity borrowing from a mystery religion but, in fact, find the opposite sometimes is true. Christianity was never influenced by the mystery religions but later; however, we see mystery religions beginning to syncrete Christianity with their own epstimologies. For example, the chief rival of Christianity in the second century AD, the pagan mystery cult Mithras in Rome, copied sacred Christian rites and perverted them.

As I stated, early Christianity is an exclusive historical monotheistic religion deriving from an earlier Hebrew belief system with a definitive body of doctrine. The alleged parallels being drawn between pagan myth and Chrsitianity in that article are laughable. Despite the fact that the myths, unlike Christianity which is based on real people and real historical events, are but myth: pick up a copy of 'The Encyclopedia of Religion' (1987) and turn to page 521-522 in volume 4. Note the following, "There is no unambiguous instance in the history of [pagan] religions of a dying and rising deity."

What you are witnessing in the "internet" non-scholarly literature are people projecting Christian concepts and words into pagan myths in order to draw parallels.

There were several "dying gods" associated with the annual death and rebirth of vegetation. Most of these were associated with a "goddess" who mourned her favorite's death and assisted their rebirth (Tammuz with Ishtar, Osiris with Isis, Adonis with Aphrodite, Attis with Cybele, etc); however, the meaning and differences between the pagan agricultural "dying and rebirth" myths and the meaning of the historical Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection are clear.

None of the so-called "savior-gods" died for someone else; Jesus Christ the Son of God died in place of His creatures (1 Cor 15:3-4; Romans 5:6-8; 1 John 2:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Tim 2:4-6) which is unique to Christianity; only Jesus died on the cross for sin, the pagan gods never did and they certainly weren't crucified (there are in fact NO "crucified saviors" other than Jesus) but died violently by other means (self-emasculation; hunting accident; ripped apart by wild boars or the Titans or crazed women or jealous brothers; etc); And, Jesus died once for all (Heb 7:27; 9:25-28; 10:10-14); unlike the pagan vegetation dieties whose repeated death and "rebirth" depicted the annual cycle of nature as mythical drama with no historical ties to any real person whatsoever;

The early Christian church believed its proclamation of Jesus' one-time victorious death upon the cross and bodily resurrection is grounded upon what actually happened in history ("we are witnesses of these things" cf. Acts 1:1-4; 1:8; 2:32; 3:15; 5:32; 10:39-41; Luke 1:1-4; 24:48; 1 John 1:1-3; 2 Peter 1:16) which was previously prophesied repeatedly throughout the Old Testament by many different people over a long period of time.

You have to understand that the particulars of Jesus life, death, and resurrection WERE FORETOLD long before they occurred repeatedly throughout the Old Testament by many different people over a long period of time. The myths can claim no such pre-revelation being concocted myths based on fantasy. There is no dependency.

And because you don't yet understand the close relationship between academia and Christianity before the 20th century in Western Civilization, you may error yet again by discounting the bulk of the world's best pre-20th century historical scholars out-of-hand in ignorance simply because they were Christians.

Understand that all of Europe's and America's prestigious old universities were initially formed as Christian universities and the scholars that taught, researched, and worked there were Christian as well. Harvard was created primarily to train Congregationalist and Unitarian clergy. Yale was originally chartered as the "Collegiate School", the institution traces its roots to 17th-century clergymen who sought to establish a college to train clergy and political leaders for the colony. All of them were started as Christian universities by Christians.

Some of the many scholars that refuted the false assertion of Christian syncretism and dependency on paganism were Samuel Cheetham, H.A.A. Kennedy, J. Gresham Machen, A.D. Nock, Bruce Metzger, Gunter Wagner, etc... etc... etc...

Now I have to get going. I have things to do today.

So all this is nonsense?

ExChristian.Net - Articles: Is Christianity based on pagan roots?

Which historical scholars? Christian ones? Do they have a vested interest in presenting Christianity as true? Sorry, but from what is readily
available on the internet it seems the opinion is widely divided. This issue needs unbiased eyes. Obviously, the claims are either true or false
so which is it?

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Ok thanks for the info. I'm just trying to get to the truth.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

The one thing I'm after is the truth.

I hope so, but so far it looks like you aren't trying very hard, or aren't much for a critical examiner. Maybe I'm wrong about that, I hope so.

I find the Bible unconvincing as God's word because there is
no mention of things which a perfect all knowing being would
know.

Have you considered the thought, that maybe part of the intent behind God's authoring scripture was to communicate to us?

There is no mention of germs/bacteria.

Not explicitly, but is implied in several places.

For example,
Leviticus 13
7 “When there is a case of leprous disease in a garment, whether a woolen or a linen garment, 48 in warp or woof of linen or wool, or in a skin or in anything made of skin, 49 if the disease is greenish or reddish in the garment, or in the skin or in the warp or the woof or in any article made of skin, it is a case of leprous disease, and it shall be shown to the priest. 50 And the priest shall examine the disease and shut up that which has the disease for seven days. 51 Then he shall examine the disease on the seventh day. If the disease has spread in the garment, in the warp or the woof, or in the skin, whatever be the use of the skin, the disease is a persistent leprous disease; it is unclean. 52 And he shall burn the garment, or the warp or the woof, the wool or the linen, or any article made of skin that is diseased, for it is a persistent leprous disease. It shall be burned in the fire.

Levitucus 14
43 “If the disease breaks out again in the house, after he has taken out the stones and scraped the house and plastered it, 44 then the priest shall go and look. And if the disease has spread in the house, it is a persistent leprous disease in the house; it is unclean. 45 And he shall break down the house, its stones and timber and all the plaster of the house, and he shall carry them out of the city to an unclean place. 46 Moreover, whoever enters the house while it is shut up shall be unclean until the evening, 47 and whoever sleeps in the house shall wash his clothes, and whoever eats in the house shall wash his clothes.

Leviticus 13:52
52 He shall therefore burn that garment in which is the plague, whether warp or woof, in wool or in linen, or anything of leather, for it is an active leprosy; the garment shall be burned in the fire.

They also quarantined quite often.

Numbers 19:20
20 ‘But the man who is unclean and does not purify himself, that person shall be cut off from among the assembly, because he has defiled the sanctuary of the Lord. The water of purification has not been sprinkled on him; he is unclean.

No mention of the immensity of the universe or advanced mathematics.

As far as astronomy, scripture speaks a fair amount on that. I don't think you would much believe any of it though.

For example,
Job 26:7
7 He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.

Isaiah 40:22
22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

How about instructions for how to build something way ahead of its time, like a telescope?

I suppose he should have put a manual for a Honda Civic as well.

As far as mathematics, there isn't anything super complex though.

I'm not sure why you think this is a problem, though.

If the Bible floated in mid air when you read from it then I might consider that evidence of a supernatural sort.

That seems quite shallow. I also don't believe it would change anything. You hold to philosophical naturalism, and until that is done away with super-naturalism isn't an option.

 

[Jordache]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

If you're being attacked, walk away. Jesus kept his mouth shut a lot more than we do. Do not cast your pearls before swine.

 

[Dude653]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

My response...I don't have to prove anything to you. One day you will face God and that will be all the proof you need. Then I walk away and wipe the dust from my feet.

 

[Trilogic]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

The problem most Christians have is they are willing to play on the Atheist field and by his rules. Ive seen them get beat on plenty of times this way. I never allow them to have this luxury. I immediately move the discussion back to Original Energy and First life. Neither of which the atheist has the slightest idea how to answer. Never play on their field. Take them to yours. Much easier that way.

 

[Pen014]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

here's a true statement.


you don't believe in God?
would it be better said you dont believe in gods?


knowing there is a dfference between single and plural.
it is clearly stated you don't believe in god.atheist.


yet a deity stands for god or gods
as does belief by definition because it's all in the bible.


suddenly gods in semantics makes it different.....because atheism doesn't believe in either.

we know in the bible there's a difference between god and gods

it's lining up definitions where one differentiates


a difference in truth.

one asks: you dont know the difference?
the other says i dont need to know the difference neither of them are true.


in general
there isn't truth in disbelief because belief at least supports something.


and that would be why you feel you are attacked.


i am love robot,you are hate robot.this is what intellectualizing everything feels like to me.

 

[Timofree]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

God is the truth, and we can win a debate, but it doesn't necessarily win people to Christ. If someone says your wrong God doesn't exist, and evolutions right, well they're wrong. And it's more important to win them to Him, than an argument.

God doesn't need defending, and a refusal to enter in to an argument, and reacting with love and prayer speaks more of the difference Christ makes to us. Every persons different, so there's no set rule, like 'do this' in every situation. Some people you may have to leave and not speak to but pray for.

So walking in the Spirit is important, listening to His voice, can be audibly, visual, promptings etc. He knows every person, and the best way to reach them. We have the bliss of not needing to lean on our own understanding, but His infinite understanding. We can't work words of knowledge etc. from our natural mind, it has to be spiritually from God. So rest in Him and His ability to get more done.

God bless ya, it's His heart to reach people, so He will meet your desire with enabling. I pray you'll be so secure in Christ that no matter what people say you'll know the security in our awesome heavenly Dad!

 

[Interesting]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

ALWAY US A BIG G FOR GOD, IF YOU USE A SMALL G, YOUR IN DISGRACE, AND WILL BE CURSED.

 

[Red_Tory]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

ALWAY US A BIG G FOR GOD, IF YOU USE A SMALL G, YOUR IN DISGRACE, AND WILL BE CURSED.

REALLY? SAYS WHO?

 

[OFM]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

we allways prayerfully need to love the non Christian we must follow Jesus Christ maybe they like the rich young ruler may argue fight in their hearts and minds agianist the gospel we r called however ever to live the gospel and share the gospel, not fight and aruge the Holy Gospel.we can should and must pray 4 them however amen-eth....

 

[Reality]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Here is some good advice.

How to Destroy an Atheist in an Argument - YouTube

 

[Red_Tory]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Here is some good advice.

How to Destroy an Atheist in an Argument - YouTube

Just out of curiosity, do you think people should be atheists? If so, why?