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Whoa, whoa whoaaaa. Which 'Lutheranism are you addressing? Liberal, Conservative or Confessional? True Lutheranism is a reflection of Luther's teachings especially on sola Scriptura and justification by faith ALONE. That kind of teaching sent the 'Bulls' after Luther.
For a fuller picture of Lutheranism and Rome read Chemnitz's treaty Examination of the Council of Trent Chemnitz's Works, Examination of the Council of Trent Set, Vol 1-4
For a fuller picture of Lutheranism and Rome read Chemnitz's treaty Examination of the Council of Trent Chemnitz's Works, Examination of the Council of Trent Set, Vol 1-4
Be whatever you 'will' be zone..
I aint skurd!
But know this..The Arminian appeals to this fact..God is good..and truly good.
As The Calvinist's emphasis from what i gather is this..God is truly sovereign,and powerfull..and he is the source of salvation(to which i say amen)
I aint skurd!
But know this..The Arminian appeals to this fact..God is good..and truly good.
As The Calvinist's emphasis from what i gather is this..God is truly sovereign,and powerfull..and he is the source of salvation(to which i say amen)
it's 'divinely' approved in methodism to hate calvinists; dislike or hate lutherans; despise catholics unless we need them for allies; childishly misunderstand the New Covenant Church being the continuation of the Jewish faithful remnant and resort to laughable terms like 'replacement theology'....because no matter how many appeals are made to understanding scripture, we know you're getting your theology from your traditions.
ok? it's self-evident.
i'm through discussing calvin et al with you.
if you have a theological discussion in mind i'm interested.
if you think the Gospel is hate on calvinists and thou shalt be saved, nothing left to say.
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I picked up a book where Hunt and Jim White (Calvinist) went toe to toe over election, predestination etc. I was hoping to hear some strong arguments against Calvinism. But to my dismay Hunt did a dismal job (and I was even rooting for him) in the debate. What would be nice to hear though is a debate between two champions from both sides; unfortunately usually a strong man is pitted against a token opponent.
you don't need to be a calvinist to do a smack-down on hunt.
he changes his story every time he speaks.
his books are a joke.
he jumped onto the coat-tails of others who were seriously discussing the issues and disgraced himself.
there's an audio sermon debunking of hunt's pretrib folly at sermonaudio.com.
poor guy.
no chance.
he changes his story every time he speaks.
his books are a joke.
he jumped onto the coat-tails of others who were seriously discussing the issues and disgraced himself.
there's an audio sermon debunking of hunt's pretrib folly at sermonaudio.com.
poor guy.
no chance.
Pre-Trib or Post-Trib Rapture
By: Dave Hunt
Pre-Trib or Post-Trib by Dave Hunt < click
"Happily, it can be settled rather easily. The descriptions in Scripture of the Rapture and Second Coming respectively are so different in so many details that they could not possibly be describing the same occurrence."
...
By: Dave Hunt
Pre-Trib or Post-Trib by Dave Hunt < click
"Happily, it can be settled rather easily. The descriptions in Scripture of the Rapture and Second Coming respectively are so different in so many details that they could not possibly be describing the same occurrence."
...
R
I was not talking about speaking about Calvinism(i know you are biased, although supposedly you are not calvinist)
No one has trained me to hate calvinists, i hate their theology, i have met some lovely calvinist folks actually in real life..they just do not go to my church..
I never said hate on the calvinist, i said..I appeal to God's goodness..and that theirin is the difference Zone.
Let's stick to what is truly said. If anyone is not anti catholic..its me. Actually, the kindest ones here to me at least, are the catholics.
How about that one?
No one has trained me to hate calvinists, i hate their theology, i have met some lovely calvinist folks actually in real life..they just do not go to my church..
I never said hate on the calvinist, i said..I appeal to God's goodness..and that theirin is the difference Zone.
Let's stick to what is truly said. If anyone is not anti catholic..its me. Actually, the kindest ones here to me at least, are the catholics.
How about that one?
R
oh and another thing..
where You got this, I can only wonder.
You say i hate calvinists, when I clearly recall never saying i do. But you take every chance to say hatefull things about methodists.
such as this-
it's 'divinely' approved in methodism to hate calvinists
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Huh, where did you get this. Seriously? I never said i hated Lutherans, or Luther..but let's be honest please. Tell me Lutherans are not similar to catholics. You would have to be disingenuous in saying otherwise. You baptize babies, the service is even like mass from what i hear. We had a lutheran convention at my former place of employment. It was very much like Catholic mass all over again(i was raised catholic, so i know)
where You got this, I can only wonder.
You say i hate calvinists, when I clearly recall never saying i do. But you take every chance to say hatefull things about methodists.
such as this-
it's 'divinely' approved in methodism to hate calvinists
------------
Huh, where did you get this. Seriously? I never said i hated Lutherans, or Luther..but let's be honest please. Tell me Lutherans are not similar to catholics. You would have to be disingenuous in saying otherwise. You baptize babies, the service is even like mass from what i hear. We had a lutheran convention at my former place of employment. It was very much like Catholic mass all over again(i was raised catholic, so i know)
I, too, was greatly disappointed by Dave Hunt in his video "What Love Is This?" which I actually own on dvd. I say that I was disappointed not just because I personally adhere to Reform Theology myself, but mainly because of Hunt's unprofessionalism and his blatant obsurdities (such as when he said that Calvinists today desire to persecute and imprison Christians who disagree with Calvinism, and the only reason they don't do that today is because "they don't have the power to do it" - that comment is at the 16:30 mark of the video). Such a statement is reprehensible, and doesn't even deserve a response from any thoughtful Christians engaged in this debate.
A poor video like Hunt's I would normally say should be avoided by all Christians (both Calvinists and Arminians). however it is so bad, that I think everyone should indeed watch it in order to learn how "NOT" to discuss and engage this important subject. There are basically only two things I respected about Hunt in his video (which ironically are only at the beginning of the video and the end). At the beginning he says "Some of my best friends are Calvinists", so I appreciate that although he despises Calvinism, he apparently still holds Calvinists as part of the Body of Christ. And near the end of his video, he confesses he is actually a 1-Point Calvinist (he apparently accepts the fifth point of Calvinism, which is "Perseverance of the Saints").
Crossnote, I noticed you said you wish you could hear a debate between two champions on both sides; I uploaded to YouTube a debate (actually more a discussion) between two men (Michael Horton and Roger Olson) considered to indeed be top professionals on both sides of the debate, so I will attach that video hear so you could enjoy a discussion on the subject the way it should be discussed by Christians (although I disagree with Olson's arguments against Calvinism in this debate, I still highly respect both his behavior and his professionalism). I hope you (and others who watch it) may enjoy it.
[video=youtube;1D2SWKbZSIU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D2SWKbZSIU[/video]
A poor video like Hunt's I would normally say should be avoided by all Christians (both Calvinists and Arminians). however it is so bad, that I think everyone should indeed watch it in order to learn how "NOT" to discuss and engage this important subject. There are basically only two things I respected about Hunt in his video (which ironically are only at the beginning of the video and the end). At the beginning he says "Some of my best friends are Calvinists", so I appreciate that although he despises Calvinism, he apparently still holds Calvinists as part of the Body of Christ. And near the end of his video, he confesses he is actually a 1-Point Calvinist (he apparently accepts the fifth point of Calvinism, which is "Perseverance of the Saints").
Crossnote, I noticed you said you wish you could hear a debate between two champions on both sides; I uploaded to YouTube a debate (actually more a discussion) between two men (Michael Horton and Roger Olson) considered to indeed be top professionals on both sides of the debate, so I will attach that video hear so you could enjoy a discussion on the subject the way it should be discussed by Christians (although I disagree with Olson's arguments against Calvinism in this debate, I still highly respect both his behavior and his professionalism). I hope you (and others who watch it) may enjoy it.
[video=youtube;1D2SWKbZSIU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D2SWKbZSIU[/video]
Gee thanks. I am very aware of Michael Horton. I was at his Reformation II conference in 1987 at Biola as well as attended for a number of weeks a Church he co pastored with Kim Riddlebarger, and of course listened weekly to their White Horse Inn broadcast with Rod Rosenbladt. Olson, I am not that familiar with but I trust it will be a profitable view.
A
Horton says" around the 45 min
Freewill is not a question of Gods sovereignty. Our wills are not bound because of Gods sovereignty,
our wills are bound because of sin.
Although this goes against what many, including folks in this forum say who profess to be
calvinists. I do love many calvinists like Horton. But if you listen to Horton long enough
to hear him explain calvinism he seems to turn into and arminian.
By the way if our wills are bound with sin, which i agree on. Whats Adam and Eves excuse?
Freewill is not a question of Gods sovereignty. Our wills are not bound because of Gods sovereignty,
our wills are bound because of sin.
Although this goes against what many, including folks in this forum say who profess to be
calvinists. I do love many calvinists like Horton. But if you listen to Horton long enough
to hear him explain calvinism he seems to turn into and arminian.
By the way if our wills are bound with sin, which i agree on. Whats Adam and Eves excuse?
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C
The reason why I posted the video was not to bash Lutherans or Calvinists but rather to show how both beliefs systems are heavily reliant on the works of Augustine, who lived a very promiscuous lifestyle before professing faith in Christ and continued to struggle with serious sin issues throughout his life thus his ideas of "grace" seem to be heavily influenced by a lifestyle of sin.
Keep in mind that there are still sects of Catholics today who hold to an old Catholic belief / tradition that Communion actually has the power to wash away your sins, which is a form of works based salvation, and the reason why many teach that you must take Communion on a weekly bsis or you are headed for hell. Hardly sounds like faith in Christ to me.
Keep in mind that there are still sects of Catholics today who hold to an old Catholic belief / tradition that Communion actually has the power to wash away your sins, which is a form of works based salvation, and the reason why many teach that you must take Communion on a weekly bsis or you are headed for hell. Hardly sounds like faith in Christ to me.
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