a Black Pope coming up

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Technically, almost all protestants submit to Roman teachings by accepting and observing Sunday as the Sabbath day, not Saturday. The Catholic Church took it upon themselves to change it and claimed authority to do so, and most protestants don't even know that. Observance of Christmas and the practice of placing Christmas trees in the home is an old pagan tradition that predates the birth of Jesus (although it was not called Christmas in earlier times) that was incorporated into Christianity by Rome. They changed the name and gave it a facelift is all. Most protestants don't know that either. Rome is still doing a good job of keeping people in ignorance unfortunately.
All who love Yeshua, Jesus, attempt to do their best to be in total submission to His will and His teaching. Even in the Word, Itself, it is said when a person is not aware of error, though he err, he is not guilty of sin.

The message you post seems to be designed to debilitate and undermine the faith of the righteous. I suppose this is ok for you, since we, as believers, must be and are prepared for the slings and darts of the enemy and his followers.

If your message is from purity combined with ignorance, I beg your pardon. Every knee will bow, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Oh, have you read the teaching from the Word that as long as a person observes whatever day they believe to be holy in good conscience toward Yahweh, he is in harmony with His will. I love to observe the seventh day as Sabbath because Jesus, His family and friends, and the first assemblies observed it such.

 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
All who love Yeshua, Jesus, attempt to do their best to be in total submission the His will and His teaching. Even in the Word, Itself, it is said when a person is not aware of error, though he err, his is not guilty of sin.

The message you post seems to be designed to debilitate and undermine the faith of the righteous. I suppose this is ok for you, since we, as believers, must be and are prepared for the slings and darts of the enemy and his followers.

If your message is from purity combined with ignorance, I beg your pardon. Every knee will bow, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Oh, have you read the teaching from the Word that as long as a person observes whatever day they believe to be holy in good consctowardowards Yahweh, he is in harmony with His will. I love to observe the seventh day as Sabbath beJesusJesuis, His family and friends, and the first assemblies observed it such.

My post is not designed to debilitate or undermine anyone's faith. I haven't judged anyone in my post either. I'm quite aware of Colossians 2:16

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"

Why do you assume ignorance? All I posted was truth and many people are not aware of those things. Is it not important to expose falsehoods?

Ephesians 5:11

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them"

I'm only pointing out that people do follow a lot of Roman teachings, whether they are Catholic or not.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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My apology in advance is incorporated with the reply to your post. As for that post, the tone is not nice at all to say the least. I feel this way because it seems to want those who are not RCC to feel as though the RCC is in total control of what they do, and it is not. As for people having Christmas trees, as long as they are not worshiping that tree or pagan gods, it is a harmless tradition of man. It is hardly worthy of profound discussion. Most people do know that the RCC incorporated many pagan customs in order to maintain its following and increase its wealth. I will assume some ignorance in all people, it is not a thing of which to be ashamed, unless a person views himself as impeccable (without stain) or infallible (without error.)

Most folks do a lot of things out of tradition with no inkling of why they do it except to honor the tradition, and in most cases believing they are honoring God. When a person is honoring God in his heart, soul and mind, as long as it is a harmless tradition, it is certain our loving Father does not mind, but I could be wrong here. You see I will always be learning because I will always be ignorant of something.
My post is not designed to debilitate or undermine anyone's faith. I haven't judged anyone in my post either. I'm quite aware of Colossians 2:16

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"

Why do you assume ignorance? All I posted was truth and many people are not aware of those things. Is it not important to expose falsehoods?

Ephesians 5:11

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them"

I'm only pointing out that people do follow a lot of Roman teachings, whether they are Catholic or not.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
My apology in advance is incorporated with the reply to your post. As for that post, the tone is not nice at all to say the least. As for people having Christmas trees, as long as they are not worshiping that tree or pagan gods, it is a harmless tradition of man. It is hardly worthy of profound discussion. Most people do know that the RCC incorporated many pagan customs in order to maintain its following and increase its wealth. I will assume some ignorance in all people, it is not a thing of which to be ashamed, unless a person views himself as impeccable (without stain) or infallible (without error.)

Most folks do a lot of things out of tradition with no inkling of why they do it except to honor the tradition, and in most cases believing they are honoring God. When a person is honoring God in his heart, soul and mind, as long as it is a harmless tradition, it is certain our loving Father does not mind, but I could be wrong here. You see I will always be learning because I will always be ignorant of something.
Your right brother, I'm sure I am ignorant about many things myself. Maybe there are people who have came to a point where they are living without error but I am not one of them. It's not my place to judge anybody for what they do, but I do feel as someone who knows something about the pagan origins of things being celebrated by Christians I should at the very least expose the fact. What a person chooses to do with the information is up to them.

The only thing I really disagree with you on is that Christmas trees aren't worthy of discussion.

Jeremiah 10:2

"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3* For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4* They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."

What we call "Christmas" actually has roots in Baal/Tammuz worship at the oldest level (Which was where the religion of Mystery Babylon originated), but it has mutated a couple of times throughout the years. The most recent name before it was called Christmas was "Saturnalia" . Saturnalia was a Roman Festival that involved worship of Saturn. This is information people are not being taught at school or in Church. I'd rather not have to bring it up but if no one else is doing so.....It's my responsibility to point it out. It doesn't matter to me really if anyone listens or not, at least I didn't fail to blow the trumpet. God Bless brother :).
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
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Technically, almost all protestants submit to Roman teachings by accepting and observing Sunday as the Sabbath day, not Saturday. The Catholic Church took it upon themselves to change it and claimed authority to do so, and most protestants don't even know that. Observance of Christmas and the practice of placing Christmas trees in the home is an old pagan tradition that predates the birth of Jesus (although it was not called Christmas in earlier times) that was incorporated into Christianity by Rome. They changed the name and gave it a facelift is all. Most protestants don't know that either. Rome is still doing a good job of keeping people in ignorance unfortunately.
Born again believers worship God in spirit and in truth everyday, not just one particular day. Though I agree that Rome changed the sabbath day and calendars, exercising their power to change times and laws, I don't believe all believers are doomed to hell because they fellowship on a particular day.

Are you an SDA? I know they believe that Sunday is the 'mark' but I just don't see it, because those with the spirit worship God in spirit and in truth... our worship and allegiance is not with anyone else. We are no longer in darkness.

As for Christmas trees, we don't worship them and Christmas itself is acknowledged by many Christians who use it to celebrate the birth of Jesus in their own way, not like the rest of the world that don't know Him. Some even bake Jesus a birthday cake. Though Jesus was born during lambing season there's nothing wrong with celebrating his birthday on another day and it's also an opportunity to witness to the lost. A person can take it too far by going through every event that's taken place on each particular day, which just makes them paranoid.

The most important thing to get right is the gospel. Sadly, not all protestants are born again. There are many wolves teaching false doctrines and they are known by their fruits.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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My apology in advance is incorporated with the reply to your post. As for that post, the tone is not nice at all to say the least. I feel this way because it seems to want those who are not RCC to feel as though the RCC is in total control of what they do, and it is not. As for people having Christmas trees, as long as they are not worshiping that tree or pagan gods, it is a harmless tradition of man. It is hardly worthy of profound discussion. Most people do know that the RCC incorporated many pagan customs in order to maintain its following and increase its wealth. I will assume some ignorance in all people, it is not a thing of which to be ashamed, unless a person views himself as impeccable (without stain) or infallible (without error.)

Most folks do a lot of things out of tradition with no inkling of why they do it except to honor the tradition, and in most cases believing they are honoring God. When a person is honoring God in his heart, soul and mind, as long as it is a harmless tradition, it is certain our loving Father does not mind, but I could be wrong here. You see I will always be learning because I will always be ignorant of something.
hi bro. jack:)

הרגש טוב

love you.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
Born again believers worship God in spirit and in truth everyday, not just one particular day. Though I agree that Rome changed the sabbath day and calendars, exercising their power to change times and laws, I don't believe all believers are doomed to hell because they fellowship on a particular day.

Are you an SDA? I know they believe that Sunday is the 'mark' but I just don't see it, because those with the spirit worship God in spirit and in truth... our worship and allegiance is not with anyone else. We are no longer in darkness.

As for Christmas trees, we don't worship them and Christmas itself is acknowledged by many Christians who use it to celebrate the birth of Jesus in their own way, not like the rest of the world that don't know Him. Some even bake Jesus a birthday cake. Though Jesus was born during lambing season there's nothing wrong with celebrating his birthday on another day and it's also an opportunity to witness to the lost. A person can take it too far by going through every event that's taken place on each particular day, which just makes them paranoid.

The most important thing to get right is the gospel. Sadly, not all protestants are born again. There are many wolves teaching false doctrines and they are known by their fruits.
Yea, definitely. A lot of people worship God in spirit and in truth and don't have this information. I never said anybody was going to hell over the Sabbath issue I was just pointing it out to demonstrate that people do follow Roman teachings without realizing it. That's why I brought Colossians 2:16 in an earlier post

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

I'm not a Seventh Day Adventist, I'm completely non-denominational. I don't buy the whole sunday worship is the mark of the beast thing either. I also agree about Wolves teaching false doctrines, that's why I bring this kind of thing up. I judge no one for what they do or what days they call Holy, my only responsibility is to bear witness to the Truth. There are connections between the Mystery Babylon religion and Christmas. It's my duty to let Christians know about that.

Revelation 18:4

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

When judgement day comes, I don't want to be in a position where God asks me why I never blew the trumpet to warn other believers when I knew these things.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,248
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Thanks. This is raining on wet ground in my instance. Also, as mentioned, anyone honoring Yahweh, even if it was previously somethng pagan, is not guilty of sin, and will not be condemned for it. If one implies people are indulging in Saturnalia while they are in spirit and truth honoring the birth of our Savior, he is honoring God, and Saturnalia does not exist in his heart, mind and/or soul. We who know these historical realities should not discourage the weak in faith by implication of these realities with his faith. It really can harm others. Be content to be educated about such things while letting others learn if they feel the need. I am not saying ignorance is bliss, but I am saying misplaced knowledge can be fatal.[QUOTE=Donkeyfish07;918682]Your right brother, I'm sure I am ignorant about many things myself. Maybe there are people who have came to a point where they are living without error but I am not one of them. It's not my place to judge anybody for what they do, but I do feel as someone who knows something about the pagan origins of things being celebrated by Christians I should at the very least expose the fact. What a person chooses to do with the information is up to them.

The only thing I really disagree with you on is that Christmas trees aren't worthy of discussion.

Jeremiah 10:2

"Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3* For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4* They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good."

What we call "Christmas" actually has roots in Baal/Tammuz worship at the oldest level (Which was where the religion of Mystery Babylon originated), but it has mutated a couple of times throughout the years. The most recent name before it was called Christmas was "Saturnalia" . Saturnalia was a Roman Festival that involved worship of Saturn. This is information people are not being taught at school or in Church. I'd rather not have to bring it up but if no one else is doing so.....It's my responsibility to point it out. It doesn't matter to me really if anyone listens or not, at least I didn't fail to blow the trumpet. God Bless brother :).[/QUOTE]
 
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Tintin

Guest
When judgement day comes, I don't want to be in a position where God asks me why I never blew the trumpet to warn other believers when I knew these things.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. If they truly are believers Jesus will be the one who is judged in their place.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
I'm not sure what you're getting at. If they truly are believers Jesus will be the one who is judged in their place.
All I mean by what you quoted is that if I know something to be Pagan and don't tell my fellow Christians about it.....I'm in error. All I'm doing is spreading the knowledge I have, I feel I have an obligation to do that.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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There really is a need for the application of the "too much input" policy here. You are absolutely correct, and all should follow your example in being here to warn others of what is to come. This is always good work, the work of a servant of Yeshua, amen. God bless you and hold you close forever, amen............[QUOTE=Donkeyfish07;918701]All I mean by what you quoted is that if I know something to be Pagan and don't tell my fellow Christians about it.....I'm in error. All I'm doing is spreading the knowledge I have, I feel I have an obligation to do that.[/QUOTE]
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
Thanks. This is raining on wet ground in my instance. Also, as mentioned, anyone honoring Yahweh, even if it was previously somethng pagan, is not guilty of sin, and will not be condemned for it. If one implies people are indulging in Saturnalia while they are in spirit and truth honoring the birth of our Savior, he is honoring God, and Saturnalia does not exist in his heart, mind and/or soul. We who know these historical realities should not discourage the weak in faith by implication of these realities with his faith. It really can harm others. Be content to be educated about such things while letting others learn if they feel the need. I am not saying ignorance is bliss, but I am saying misplaced knowledge can be fatal.
My intent isn't to harm anyone's faith. I don't see how revealing the truth about the matter hurts anyone here. Knowing the truth isn't a bad thing. I'm not entirely sure what you mean. You seem to be saying I shouldn't be bringing this up because it would hurt someone weak in the faith. I don't think hiding the truth from people/never bringing it up is a good thing.

Why do you have the view that it is damaging and/or misplaced knowledge? I would be willing to rethink my position on it if you could demonstrate that. I would be content to let people learn on their own but if no one ever tells them about it....how are they going to know?
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
There really is a need for the application of the "too much input" policy here. You are absolutely correct, and all should follow your example in being here to warn others of what is to come. This is always good work, the work of a servant of Yeshua, amen. God bless you and hold you close forever, amen............
God Bless you too brother. I'm still trying to figure out what issue you are having here. What do you mean by the too much input policy?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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People, you and I, and all people, will have times when they jump to conclusions about any learned fact or reality, keeping in mind facts and reality as we know it will be carried out with the rest of the waste materials of this age.

When and if a person wishes to teach historical events and apply them to a person's faith, the teacher must be prepared to elaborated and teach until all is fully understood. Now, this is accomplished if one has access to constant dialog on the subject, however when one writes any writing, he is not available for discussion until all is fully understood, even if he knows he has been perfectly clear on the subject.

When you look around at the religions of this age which claim to be taken from the Word, perfect in its composition, yet totally misconstrued in so many ways, then it is easy to see that anything we wish to convey will be eventually treated the same way unless the author is there to put things right at all times. This just does not happen in the Internet, nor in books or written articles. The person has to be present in order to keep all in order.

I believe the Lord, Yeshua, and I know when He returns He will make all understood, and there will be no more confusion, but until then, like you, I feel it incumbent upon myself to remain non-sectarian or non-denominational while doing my best to follow the Master's teachings.

So it is with teaching about pagan traditions. If they have been neutralized by honest faith in Yeshua, or Jesus, then it is a harmless sleeping dog. And poking a sleeping dog with a stick will certainly arouse it.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest

When you look around at the religions of this age which claim to be taken from the Word, perfect in its composition, yet totally misconstrued in so many ways, then it is easy to see that anything we wish to convey will be eventually treated the same way unless the author is there to put things right at all times. This just does not happen in the Internet, nor in books or written articles. The person has to be present in order to keep all in order.

I believe the Lord, Yeshua, and I know when He returns He will make all understood, and there will be no more confusion, but until then, like you, I feel it incumbent upon myself to remain non-sectarian or non-denominational while doing my best to follow the Master's teachings.

So it is with teaching about pagan traditions. If they have been neutralized by honest faith in Yeshua, or Jesus, then it is a harmless sleeping dog. And poking a sleeping dog with a stick will certainly arouse it.
You do have a point, things are totally misconstrued and are likely to continue to be misinterpreted and misconstrued.....but that can be true about any subject. My issue with it is, I had to go through years of research in this field to uncover all the information I did. Some of my initial discoveries were quite by accident. Not once was I taught these things in a Church or in a School and I think that's pretty sad considering that our enemies are privy to this kind of knowledge. We both know it's factually accurate as you seem to be a learned man as well. I'm still not sure why you think it's harmful to tell people about it.

People misinterpret scripture all the time like you said....but is that a good reason not to teach people scripture? That may not be a fair question but I still don't understand your point entirely. As far as poking a sleeping dog with a stick, do you mean it is dangerous for people to be taught about this because they may be drawn into the Pagan side of it? I'm not sure I get your meaning on that analogy.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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The revelation of and the gift of salvation always make a person think in terms of how the world is misguided by the enemy. This realization occurs with all who have been enlightened, in one way or another. It is a holy indignation but we must remember, our Lord is the Champion, and He has already won. While we wait on the Lord it is our duty to remain focused on the message of the Good News, the Gospel, with our minds trained to meditate on things beautiful and good of our Father. Were we to list all the details of evil for others because of this holy indignation, I am afraid the enemy will have won for all the time in the world is barely enough to list all, and it would keep us from the sacred(separate) duty of sharing Yeshua, Jesus.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
The Black pope is the Jesuit General. The Jesuits are a military religious order, basically the army of the Papacy. One of their missions is to destroy protestantism, since they believe anyone not holding to the authority of Rome is considered a heretic. They want all to submit to Roman authority and it's teachings.
Well they aren't a "military religious order", the Knights Templar, the Knights Hospitaller, and the Knights of Malta were/are military religious orders. The Jesuits were founded by a man that had been in the military, but not as a military order. However they were founded to combat Protestantism, which isn't unusual considering the time of their founding, but today they mostly run colleges.

Look at the state of protestantism today. Many have embraced Roman teachings. The protestant prosperity gospel is a renewal of the catholic doctrine of indulgences. Conditional salvation is another catholic teaching that has crept it's way into the churches. Some protestant churches have even embraced the catholic Eucharist and sacraments.
Indulgences were actually about saving your soul, not prosperity in this life like the prosperity gospel propounds. Also many Protestant churches never entirely did away with the sacraments to begin with, Lutherans and Anglicans have always kept the sacrament of the altar and the sacrament of baptism.


Yeah, the term Black pope is nothing to do with race. The white pope is the figure head and always wears white, whereas the Jesuits tend to wear black mostly.
He is so called because of the clout the Jesuits had for many years. It used to be you couldn't swing a cat without hitting a parish or a school run by the Jesuits, but now it's rare to find a Jesuit run parish.
 
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iamthelordsforever

Guest
If you believe that, you are not a true Catholic, as the Catholic Church holds that The Pope is infallible on all matters of faith and morals. A bad Pope doesn't negate the office, but a declaration of a man's infallibility is un-biblical and ungodly.
Amen, brother! I have not hatred for Catholics, because we are called to love all men. However, the doctrines of the Catholic Church are an abomination and an apostasy.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
155
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Indulgences were actually about saving your soul, not prosperity in this life like the prosperity gospel propounds.
You need to research the word of faith movement, because it's definitely a renewal of the doctrine of indulgences.

"The indulgences of old promised that God would pardon people's sins in exchange for a gift to the church. The indulgences sold today promise a return by God of up to one hundred fold with every gift. The doctrine of seed faith is giving to a need and expecting from God a return on that gift. Many even teach that you should name your seed before you plant it. They encourage you to put an amount of money into their offering and claim something in return, like your uncle's salvation or a miracle debt reduction. If you need a healing, plant a seed. If you need more money, plant a seed. How strangely similar to the selling of indulgences"



Here is a post from another thread that I made on it....

"An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin."The faithful can gain indulgences for themselves or apply them to the dead"

(1478) An indulgence is obtained through the Church who, by virtue of the power of binding and loosing granted her by Christ Jesus, intervenes in favor of individual Christians and opens for them the treasury of the merits of Christ and the saints to obtain from the Father of mercies the remission of the temporal punishments due for their sins. Thus the Church does not want simply to come to the aid of these Christians, but also to spur them to works of devotion, penance, and charity.

(1479) Since the faithful departed now being purified are also members of the same communion of saints, one way we can help them is to obtain indulgences for them, so that the temporal punishments due for their sins may be remitted.


Acts 8:20-23: But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”


Also many Protestant churches never entirely did away with the sacraments to begin with, Lutherans and Anglicans have always kept the sacrament of the altar and the sacrament of baptism
Do you mean they believed they are prerequisites for salvation?

It's pretty noticeable that many heretical teachings have entered the protestant churches, leaving the protestant world in a mess. When you look closely at some of the teachings you can see they do have some roots in Catholicism. I personally see this as an attempt to bring protestants to Rome. The infiltration of these teachings into the churches and the accepting of them will convince protestants of the similarities they share with Rome.

There's a big difference between taking the bread and wine in remembrance of Him and the sacrificial mass. Taking in remembrance accepts the work of Christ on the cross and remembers what He did for us, whereas the other denies His work, instead believing in a sacrificial mass that must be repeated over and over, that Jesus is literally in the bread each time. If protestants held to this Catholic teaching all along, of a repeated sacrificial mass, then they have always been Catholic. Anyone saved by the grace of God through faith, knows that He was the ONE perfect sacrifice and no others are required.

Hebrews 10:11-14: "And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified"

They have a very long history. Research them.