Must Shortly Come To Pass

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nathan3

Guest
#21
#21
TomL said:
You are missing something young man. "Behold he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen." Revelation 1.7, ASV And again, "7Look! He is coming in the clouds.
Every eye will see him,even those who pierced him,and all the tribes of the earth will mournbecause of him.​
So be it! Amen." - ISV, isv.com

Often when people quote Revelation 1.7, they seldom do completely. It says that those who pierced him would see him. So, this verse limits the time when those who pierced him would still be alive.
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It does not limit that time, why ? Because those who pierced Him are in heaven awaiting Judgment, Or the Lord's Day, sure they will know when He returns to this earth. Everyone will know. You can not take that one little verse and create a theology around it, because there are other scriptures that state , that is talking about Christ return to this earth to rule all nations with a rod of Iron; forever.
 
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TomL

Banned
#22
Feb 26, 2013
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#22
tribesman said:
TomL, are you full preterist? Personally I am partial preterist, I believe most of the prophecies spoken of here were fulfilled AD 70. However, this excludes the second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the dead.
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I think I am a fuller preterist than most full preterists. Most full preterists that I know do not want to let go of the physical rituals that are no longer needed. Baptism, communion, for example.
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#23
Oct 13, 2011
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#23
TomL said:
I think I am a fuller preterist than most full preterists. Most full preterists that I know do not want to let go of the physical rituals that are no longer needed. Baptism, communion, for example.
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Oh...ok...we're far from each other on this one. Take care anyway.
 
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TomL

Banned
#24
Feb 26, 2013
151
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#24
nathan3 said:
It does not limit that time, why ? Because those who pierced Him are in heaven awaiting Judgment, Or the Lord's Day, sure they will know when He returns to this earth. Everyone will know. You can not take that one little verse and create a theology around it, because there are other scriptures that state , that is talking about Christ return to this earth to rule all nations with a rod of Iron; forever.
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I am not trying to make a whole theology out of that one verse. The theology of fulfillment is based on many verses, this is just one. It is others that take "every eye will see him" that are trying to support a theology with that one verse.

As far as ruling, see Matthew 28.18.
 
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TomL

Banned
#25
Feb 26, 2013
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#25
nathan3 said:
It does not limit that time, why ? Because those who pierced Him are in heaven awaiting Judgment, Or the Lord's Day, sure they will know when He returns to this earth. Everyone will know. You can not take that one little verse and create a theology around it, because there are other scriptures that state , that is talking about Christ return to this earth to rule all nations with a rod of Iron; forever.
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Do have Scripture that those who pierce him are in heaven?
 
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nathan3

Guest
#26
#26
TomL said:
Do have Scripture that those who pierce him are in heaven?
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Your hyper focused on that one verse. That one verse does not create a full thought. But by more then one witness; is a matter established... Rather then me trying to unravel all that mess; You should start over from the beginning. Throw out all preconceived notions, and just keep gathering more and more scriptures before you ever formulate a conclusion about something. I think its a good idea.
 
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TomL

Banned
#27
Feb 26, 2013
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#27
nathan3 said:
Your hyper focused on that one verse. That one verse does not create a full thought. But by more then one witness; is a matter established... Rather then me trying to unravel all that mess; You should start over from the beginning. Throw out all preconceived notions, and just keep gathering more and more scriptures before you ever formulate a conclusion about something. I think its a good idea.
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Thanks for the laugh -;) I have thrown out all my preconceived notions. That's how I became a preterist.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#28
Aug 15, 2009
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#28
I can never understand why preterists believe everything has come to pass, yet they cannot tell us when the millennium took place. The only way I've ever heard them explain it is that we are in it now, which is totally unscriptural. The word millennium means 1000, and that cannot be changed or twisted. So, has it happened, or not?
Oh, I almost forgot. Neither was there ever a peace treaty made with Israel during that time. So where is the Antichrist?
 
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TomL

Banned
#29
Feb 26, 2013
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#29
Stephen63 said:
I can never understand why preterists believe everything has come to pass, yet they cannot tell us when the millennium took place. The only way I've ever heard them explain it is that we are in it now, which is totally unscriptural. The word millennium means 1000, and that cannot be changed or twisted. So, has it happened, or not?
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There's that number 1000 again. Did you read what Elizabeth316 said about the number 1000?
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#30
Aug 15, 2009
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#30
So, where do you put the tribulation and the Antichrist? There is a real Antichrist that makes a treaty with Israel, which by the way, has never happened yet. Caesar didn't do it, because no Jew trusted him, neither was he ever in the Temple.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#31
#31
Stephen63 said:
I can never understand why preterists believe everything has come to pass, yet they cannot tell us when the millennium took place. The only way I've ever heard them explain it is that we are in it now, which is totally unscriptural. The word millennium means 1000, and that cannot be changed or twisted. So, has it happened, or not?
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I don't even know what perterists means nor do I want to know :) . The Lord's day, ( that thousand years aka Millenium ) spoken of by Peter and John, naturally takes place when Christ feet step foot on this earth to rule all nations, with a rod of Iron .



Zechariah 14

King James Version (KJV)
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
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9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. ( Acts 1:9-14 )

He shall take the Throne of David (Isaiah 9:6-7; Luke 1:32-33 kjv )

and rule on earth for the prophetic thousand years known as the millennium (Revelation 20:4 Zechariah 14:9).

These are just a few, places in the Bible that teach this. I have not even mentioned the change in bodies that take place at The True "Real" Christ return on His Lord's Day. That change that Paul taught so clearly in 1 thess and 1 cor 15. etc. But that is still before, Antichrist arrival as well.


The rest give all the detail of events Christ outlined, that must, take place first, before Christ even returns. Talking about Satan's arrival .

There are many many more witnesses to these facts taught by Christ Himself even and His apostles . And God/Christ in the Old testament too.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#32
#32
TomL said:
Thanks for the laugh -;) I have thrown out all my preconceived notions. That's how I became a preterist.
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Aww man, its time to start from square one. That's just my honest advice.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#33
#33
nathan3 said:
CORRECTION needed here >

That change that Paul taught so clearly in 1 thess and 1 cor 15. etc. But that is still before, Antichrist arrival as well.
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The red letters need to be corrected, What I meant to say was, That has to take place ; ""AFTER" not before......... sorry for that
 
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nathan3

Guest
#34
#34
Stephen63 said:
So, where do you put the tribulation and the Antichrist? There is a real Antichrist that makes a treaty with Israel, which by the way, has never happened yet. Caesar didn't do it, because no Jew trusted him, neither was he ever in the Temple.
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Not disagreeing with you about the Antichrist part. But where are you getting this "" makes a treaty with Israel " part ???? Because I have never read that in the Bible. I have heard other people mention " treaty with" thing, but never saw that written.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#35
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#35
TomL said:
Yes it is. 2013 (this year) minus 70 (as in AD) equals 1943. Since the New Testament was written prior to 70 AD it was written more than 1943 years ago.
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SO then 2000 years is as a couple of days to the Lord i.e. SOON.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#36
Aug 15, 2009
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#36
The treaty is a covenant that Antichrist makes with Israel in the book of Daniel 9:27.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#37
#37
Stephen63 said:
The treaty is a covenant that Antichrist makes with Israel in the book of Daniel 9:27.
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I dont see the treaty part there ? I do see the antichrist in that verse there: the abomination of desolation, or desolator. I see also, that he caused the daily sacrifice or oblation, aka worship of THE True Christ or true passover ,to cease or stop, because they will be worshiping him "instead of" Christ, ( anti; properly translated means "instead of" ) They take it to the false Christ. Christ is that sacrifice here or oblation mentioned. aka our Passover lamb- (1 Corinthians 5:7

but no treaty ????

Daniel 9:27

King James Version (KJV)

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 
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Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#38
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
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#38
The two words are not entirely synonymous. So I suppose you may have a point. Just not a very valuable one because two words so closely related.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#39
#39
God who lives in eternity and does not have the same experience of time as we do would plausibly have a very different definition of 'soon' from ours...

preterists have the same problem as the people peter was writing to when he had to explain that God was not 'late'
 
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nathan3

Guest
#40
#40
Stephen63 said:
The two words are not entirely synonymous. So I suppose you may have a point. Just not a very valuable one because two words so closely related.
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what words ? which ones. then maybe I can look them up in the Hebrew and get a clearer picture.
 
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