Must Shortly Come To Pass

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TomL

Banned
Feb 26, 2013
151
0
0
[SUP]25[/SUP] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. [SUP]26[/SUP] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; [SUP]27[/SUP] And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. [SUP]28[/SUP] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [SUP]29[/SUP] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. ~ John 5:25-29

These verses are referring to the Great White Throne Judgment resurrection.

Does this mean that it came to pass the same hour that Jesus said these words?

Of course not.

;)
John also stated it is the last hour in I John 2.18.
"Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour." - ASV

What is meant by "last hour"?
 
P

peterT

Guest
John also stated it is the last hour in I John 2.18.
"Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour." - ASV

What is meant by "last hour"?
My bible says the” last time” somebody has been changing that bible bro

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
 

TomL

Banned
Feb 26, 2013
151
0
0
My bible says the” last time” somebody has been changing that bible bro

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Does it matter? It probably means the same thing. I have looked at several translations and the KJV is the only one that says "last time." But, as I say, it probably means the same thing. Besides, if they were in the last time back then, would you suggest we are still in the same last time today?
 
G

GRA

Guest
What Jesus is stating is that it's true right now, while Jesus is speaking, but would become clearer later,after his death and resurrection and kingdom arrival on Pentecost.. This is talking about eternal life.
Verse 24 confirms this.
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

Verse 28 says "for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice."

This is referring to the judgement. Note that it says "a time is coming", but not Now like verse 25. This means it will happen at some point in the future.
It was late... My mind was fuzzy... ("That is my story, and I am sticking to it...") ;)

I can certainly see where verse 25 may apply to [spiritual] salvation rather than [bodily] resurrection.

I do not see this part actually stated in the passage, so I am assuming your intent was for clarification / etc. :confused:

(The grammar of your sentence indicates that everything in the entire sentence is being stated by Jesus in the passage.) :p

I need to study this further... :eek:

:)
 
G

GRA

Guest
John also stated it is the last hour in I John 2.18.
"Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour." - ASV

What is meant by "last hour"?
"last days"

Does it matter? It probably means the same thing. I have looked at several translations and the KJV is the only one that says "last time." But, as I say, it probably means the same thing. Besides, if they were in the last time back then, would you suggest we are still in the same last time today?
i.e., "it is the last time" / "it is the last hour" => "we are in the last days"

:)
 
P

peterT

Guest
Does it matter? It probably means the same thing. I have looked at several translations and the KJV is the only one that says "last time." But, as I say, it probably means the same thing. Besides, if they were in the last time back then, would you suggest we are still in the same last time today?
Sorry bro, I am just a bit suspicious of modern man re-writing Bibles
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
48
It was late... My mind was fuzzy... ("That is my story, and I am sticking to it...") ;)

I can certainly see where verse 25 may apply to [spiritual] salvation rather than [bodily] resurrection.

I do not see this part actually stated in the passage, so I am assuming your intent was for clarification / etc. :confused:

(The grammar of your sentence indicates that everything in the entire sentence is being stated by Jesus in the passage.) :p

I need to study this further... :eek:

:)
I understand. I was tired as well. I barely remember posting that. I want to study it more too.
One thing that did pop in my mind though... When the saints came out of their grave right after the death of JEsus. Why did this happen? It is sort of unrelated but at the same time made me think of that. I am asking because I am not sure the answer. Not to enter a debate. Just want to make that clear :)
 

TomL

Banned
Feb 26, 2013
151
0
0
"last days"


i.e., "it is the last time" / "it is the last hour" => "we are in the last days"

:)
We are in the last days? They were in the last days.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
The KJV is definitely a rewrite. England had converted to Protestantism about a century before and James gave the translators instructions intended to guarantee that the new version would conform to the ecclesiology and and reflect the episcopal structure of the Church of England and its belief in an ordained clergy.[SUP][/SUP] The translation was done by 47 scholars, all of whom were members of the Church of England. In common with most other translations of the period, the New Testament was translated from Greek, the Old Testament from Hebrew text, while the Apocrypha was translated from the Greek and Latin.

The KJV is a re-write.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
HOUR (Heb., Aram. šā‘â; Gk. hōra) is used in Scripture in a precise sense and in a more general sense.

1. In its more precise sense (which is probably later than the more general sense), an hour is one-twelfth of the period of daylight: ‘Are there not twelve hours in the day?’ (Jn. 11:9). They were reckoned from sunrise to sunset, just as the three (Jewish) or four (Roman) watches into which the period of darkness was divided were reckoned from sunset to sunrise.

As sunrise and sunset varied according to the time of the year, biblical hours cannot be translated exactly into modern clock-hours; and in any case the absence of accurate chronometers meant that the time of day was indicated in more general terms than with us. It is not surprising that the hours most frequently mentioned are the third, sixth and ninth hours. All three are mentioned in the parable of the labourers in the vineyard (Mt. 20:3, 5), as is also the eleventh hour (v. 6, 9), which has become proverbial for the last opportunity.

The two disciples of Jn. 1:35ff. stayed with Jesus for the remainder of the day after going home with him,‘for it was about the tenth hour’ (v. 39), i.e. about 4 p.m., and darkness would have fallen before they concluded their conversation with him. The third, sixth and ninth hours are mentioned in the Synoptic record of the crucifixion (Mk. 15:25, 33f.).

The difficulty of reconciling the ‘sixth hour’ of Jn. 19:14 with the ‘third hour’ of Mk. 15:25 has led some to suppose that in John the hours are counted from midnight, not from sunrise. The one concrete piece of evidence in this connection—the statement in the Martyrdom of Polycarp (21) that Polycarp was martyred ‘at the eighth hour’, where 8 a.m. is regarded by some as more probable than 2 p.m.—is insufficient to set against the well-attested fact that Romans and Jews alike counted their hours from sunrise.

(The fact that the Romans reckoned their civil day as starting at midnight, while the Jews reckoned theirs as starting at sunset, has nothing to do with the numbering of the hours.) The ‘seventh hour’ of Jn. 4:52 is 1 p.m.; such difficulty as is felt about the reference to ‘yesterday’ in that verse is not removed by interpreting the hour differently. In Rev. 8:1 ‘half an hour’ represents Gk. hēmiōrion.

2. More generally, ‘hour’ indicates a fairly well-defined point of time. ‘In the same hour’ (Dn. 5:5, AV, RV; immediately’, RSV) means ‘while the king and his guests were at the height of their sacrilegious revelry’. ‘In the self same hour’ (Mt. 8:13, AV) means ‘at that very moment (RSV) when Jesus assured the centurion that his plea to have his servant healed was granted’. Frequently some specially critical occasion is referred to as an ‘hour’ e.g. the hour of Jesus’ betrayal (Mk. 14:41; cf. Lk. 22:53, ‘your hour’, i.e. ‘your brief season of power’); the hour of his parousia, with the attendant resurrection and judgment (Mt. 25:13; Jn. 5:28f.).

In John the appointed time for Jesus passion and glorification is repeatedly spoken of as his ‘hour’ (cf. Jn. 2:4; 7:30; 8:20; also 12:23; 17:1). The present situation between the times is ‘the last hour’ (1 Jn. 2:18); the rise of many antichrists indicates that Christ is soon to appear.

-Bruce, F. F. (1996). Hour. In D. R. W. Wood, I. H. Marshall, A. R. Millard, J. I. Packer & D. J. Wiseman (Eds.), New Bible dictionary.

W. M. O’Neil, Time and the Calendars, 1975; H.-C. Hahn:

 

TomL

Banned
Feb 26, 2013
151
0
0
HOUR (Heb., Aram. šā‘â; Gk. hōra) is used in Scripture in a precise sense and in a more general sense.

1. In its more precise sense (which is probably later than the more general sense), an hour is one-twelfth of the period of daylight: ‘Are there not twelve hours in the day?’ (Jn. 11:9). They were reckoned from sunrise to sunset, just as the three (Jewish) or four (Roman) watches into which the period of darkness was divided were reckoned from sunset to sunrise.

As sunrise and sunset varied according to the time of the year, biblical hours cannot be translated exactly into modern clock-hours; and in any case the absence of accurate chronometers meant that the time of day was indicated in more general terms than with us. It is not surprising that the hours most frequently mentioned are the third, sixth and ninth hours. All three are mentioned in the parable of the labourers in the vineyard (Mt. 20:3, 5), as is also the eleventh hour (v. 6, 9), which has become proverbial for the last opportunity.

The two disciples of Jn. 1:35ff. stayed with Jesus for the remainder of the day after going home with him,‘for it was about the tenth hour’ (v. 39), i.e. about 4 p.m., and darkness would have fallen before they concluded their conversation with him. The third, sixth and ninth hours are mentioned in the Synoptic record of the crucifixion (Mk. 15:25, 33f.).

The difficulty of reconciling the ‘sixth hour’ of Jn. 19:14 with the ‘third hour’ of Mk. 15:25 has led some to suppose that in John the hours are counted from midnight, not from sunrise. The one concrete piece of evidence in this connection—the statement in the Martyrdom of Polycarp (21) that Polycarp was martyred ‘at the eighth hour’, where 8 a.m. is regarded by some as more probable than 2 p.m.—is insufficient to set against the well-attested fact that Romans and Jews alike counted their hours from sunrise.

(The fact that the Romans reckoned their civil day as starting at midnight, while the Jews reckoned theirs as starting at sunset, has nothing to do with the numbering of the hours.) The ‘seventh hour’ of Jn. 4:52 is 1 p.m.; such difficulty as is felt about the reference to ‘yesterday’ in that verse is not removed by interpreting the hour differently. In Rev. 8:1 ‘half an hour’ represents Gk. hēmiōrion.

2. More generally, ‘hour’ indicates a fairly well-defined point of time. ‘In the same hour’ (Dn. 5:5, AV, RV; immediately’, RSV) means ‘while the king and his guests were at the height of their sacrilegious revelry’. ‘In the self same hour’ (Mt. 8:13, AV) means ‘at that very moment (RSV) when Jesus assured the centurion that his plea to have his servant healed was granted’. Frequently some specially critical occasion is referred to as an ‘hour’ e.g. the hour of Jesus’ betrayal (Mk. 14:41; cf. Lk. 22:53, ‘your hour’, i.e. ‘your brief season of power’); the hour of his parousia, with the attendant resurrection and judgment (Mt. 25:13; Jn. 5:28f.).

In John the appointed time for Jesus passion and glorification is repeatedly spoken of as his ‘hour’ (cf. Jn. 2:4; 7:30; 8:20; also 12:23; 17:1). The present situation between the times is ‘the last hour’ (1 Jn. 2:18); the rise of many antichrists indicates that Christ is soon to appear.

-Bruce, F. F. (1996). Hour. In D. R. W. Wood, I. H. Marshall, A. R. Millard, J. I. Packer & D. J. Wiseman (Eds.), New Bible dictionary.

W. M. O’Neil, Time and the Calendars, 1975; H.-C. Hahn:

Thanks for this post. Very interesting. To me, the most important point you made in the context of this topic is, "which has become proverbial for the last opportunity." We use similar language today. "Don't wait till the last minute," for example. "Last minute" does not necessarily mean the last 60 seconds.

Very interesting.