-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
David therefore sought God on behalf of the child. And David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground. And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground, but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. On the seventh day the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, "Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spoke to him, and he did not listen to us. How then can we say to him the child is dead? He may do himself some harm." But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David understood that the child was dead. And David said to his servants, "Is the child dead?" They said, "He is dead." Then David arose from the earth and washed and anointed himself and changed his clothes. And he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. He then went to his own house. And when he asked, they set food before him, and he ate. Then his servants said to him, "What is this thing that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive; but when the child died, you arose and ate food." He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, 'Who knows whether the LORD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?' But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."
(2Sa 12:16-23)
I would say this is true at least for children of believers
(2Sa 12:16-23)
I would say this is true at least for children of believers
Last edited:
P
I believe the same thing happens to young children that didn't receive or understand the Gospel, as happens to a remote tribesman that was never brought the Gospel, or someone that is too mentally challenged to understand the Gospel, or someone that was blinded by God Himself to the Gospel:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vRefa"]Rom 4:15[/TD]
[TD="class: vDispa"]Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vRefa"]Rom 4:15[/TD]
[TD="class: vDispa"]Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Last edited by a moderator:
P
I meant to say the same thing probably or likely happens, because the one thing I can know, is that I can't know, God's judgments.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vRefa"]Rom 11:33[/TD]
[TD="class: vDispa"]O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out![/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Simply trust in God.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: vRefa"]Rom 11:33[/TD]
[TD="class: vDispa"]O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out![/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Simply trust in God.
D
This is a verses that supports that idea of an age of accountability. Meaning that babies and young children are not accountable for thier actions because they do not have the mental facilities to decide good from evil or right from wrong. Even in our own law if one is insane, that means his mental state is not able to determine right from wrong and is declared innocent, even though he did commit a crime. He is not held accountable for it.
This is true for babies and very young children and they do go to Heaven.
This is true for babies and very young children and they do go to Heaven.
The Bible is clear. When we die, we are dead.
That is it. No immediate transport of some part of us anywhere.
When Christ returns the dead (at least some) are resurrected for judgement.
From what I see in the Bible there is no indication that children will be resurrected. I think it will be a matter of understanding - so I guess it will depend upon the individual.
And those that never heard of Jesus (like some beggar in 4th century India, or whatever) will likewise not be resurrected. Unless of course God decides they should be.
There is no firey pit of perpetual torture so this is how a loving God deals with those who have not heard of his Son.
Of course those who are resurrected and judged not to be in the Book of Life will face the 'second death' - which will eternal destruction.
In the end God will decide.
But the Bible does not say anyone goes to heaven or hell when they die - that is a fictional tradition, not a Biblical fact.
That is it. No immediate transport of some part of us anywhere.
When Christ returns the dead (at least some) are resurrected for judgement.
From what I see in the Bible there is no indication that children will be resurrected. I think it will be a matter of understanding - so I guess it will depend upon the individual.
And those that never heard of Jesus (like some beggar in 4th century India, or whatever) will likewise not be resurrected. Unless of course God decides they should be.
There is no firey pit of perpetual torture so this is how a loving God deals with those who have not heard of his Son.
Of course those who are resurrected and judged not to be in the Book of Life will face the 'second death' - which will eternal destruction.
In the end God will decide.
But the Bible does not say anyone goes to heaven or hell when they die - that is a fictional tradition, not a Biblical fact.
In continuing my reading through the book of Job, I've captured a wonderful illustration of this very thing;
This illustrates an experience in Job's life when He was cursing his birth, due to the sore boils from the souls of his feet to his crown, by Satan, but in it He reveals some intriguing information,
From the book of Job, chapter 3 verses 16-19;
16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been ; as infants which never saw light.
17 There the wicked cease from troubling ; and there the weary be at rest.
18 There the prisoners rest together ; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
19 The small and great are there ; and the servant is free from his master.
Now, this signifies that an untimely birth is innocent, that if we are judged according to what we have done, they have done no deeds to be judged, therefore are innocent.
This illustrates an experience in Job's life when He was cursing his birth, due to the sore boils from the souls of his feet to his crown, by Satan, but in it He reveals some intriguing information,
From the book of Job, chapter 3 verses 16-19;
16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been ; as infants which never saw light.
17 There the wicked cease from troubling ; and there the weary be at rest.
18 There the prisoners rest together ; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
19 The small and great are there ; and the servant is free from his master.
Now, this signifies that an untimely birth is innocent, that if we are judged according to what we have done, they have done no deeds to be judged, therefore are innocent.
Last edited:
D
Brother, I beg to differ. Not to derail this thread, but the old Testament may not be clear on the issue of an immortal spirit of man, the New Testament is very clear that we have a spirit.
This verse is clearly saying "absent from the body" means we are present with Jesus in Heaven. It makes no reference to the grave or the resurrection. Even the term "absent from the body" means we can be separate and separated from the body.
Here Jesus is making an argument that amazes those who hear it. In verse 32 He makes his case using the scriptures and shows that there is life after our bodies die. He says that God is (present tense, meaning as those words are spoken) is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. That means Abraham, Issac and Jacob still acknowledged God as being their God.
In this story Lazarus the beggar is carried to "Abraham's Bosom's and is seen with Abraham after he dies. This is clearly a reference to his spirit. I am sure you will counter that this is a parable but no parable in the Bible ever mentions names. Even if it is a parable, why would Jesus ever mention a life after death, if it were not so? Also, how is it possible to die and be carried away by angels, absent from the body?
This verse is clearly saying "absent from the body" means we are present with Jesus in Heaven. It makes no reference to the grave or the resurrection. Even the term "absent from the body" means we can be separate and separated from the body.
Here Jesus is making an argument that amazes those who hear it. In verse 32 He makes his case using the scriptures and shows that there is life after our bodies die. He says that God is (present tense, meaning as those words are spoken) is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. That means Abraham, Issac and Jacob still acknowledged God as being their God.
In this story Lazarus the beggar is carried to "Abraham's Bosom's and is seen with Abraham after he dies. This is clearly a reference to his spirit. I am sure you will counter that this is a parable but no parable in the Bible ever mentions names. Even if it is a parable, why would Jesus ever mention a life after death, if it were not so? Also, how is it possible to die and be carried away by angels, absent from the body?
L
Much respect for Bookreader's beliefs: The belief that there is no resurrection has been around since the time of Christ.
Point of Reference:
Sadducees rejected the belief in resurrection of the dead:
• the soul is not immortal; there is no afterlife, and
• there are no rewards or penalties after death
• Karaites may have had some roots or connections with old Sadducee views
Thanks to each of you for allowing me to post.
Respectfully Submitted
Living Epistle
Point of Reference:
Sadducees rejected the belief in resurrection of the dead:
• the soul is not immortal; there is no afterlife, and
• there are no rewards or penalties after death
• Karaites may have had some roots or connections with old Sadducee views
Thanks to each of you for allowing me to post.
Respectfully Submitted
Living Epistle
They stay asleep until judgement day, and will be judged according to the hidden purposes of their hearts; which do not know right from wrong. Their place in the new Eden is assured. No innocent child goes anywhere but to God. They ARE in the state of Eden, because they are not intimate with knowledge of evil.
N
They simply return where they came from.That is to The Heavenly Father in heaven. All souls belong to God. and are sent from God.
Mark 10:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Mark 9 :
36 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea....
Ezekiel 18:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
( Read all of 1st Corinthians 15. ) . . .
2 Corinthians 5:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Jeremiah 1:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
We came from before God, we return there.
Also God is Judge and there is no other Judge beside Him.
Deuteronomy 32:
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
James 4:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
I guess i glean from these few places that God takes care of the kids. So they are in good hands . There are so much more places you can read to get an good overall view of this , written in the Bible, I just don't know them all.
Mark 10:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Mark 9 :
36 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea....
Ezekiel 18:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
( Read all of 1st Corinthians 15. ) . . .
2 Corinthians 5:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Jeremiah 1:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
We came from before God, we return there.
Also God is Judge and there is no other Judge beside Him.
Deuteronomy 32:
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
James 4:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
I guess i glean from these few places that God takes care of the kids. So they are in good hands . There are so much more places you can read to get an good overall view of this , written in the Bible, I just don't know them all.
Last edited:
T
According to the (pre-Vatican II) Catholic Church and medieval poet Dante Alighieri, Limbo is the place where unbaptized babies go after they die.
The only thing that makes me a little squirmy is the 'tribesman' part.
1. They do have enough of the law written on their conscience to condemn them.
2. Why send the Gospel if that is so? Leave them in the same state as little children.
thinking of...
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them
(Rom 2:14-15)
1. They do have enough of the law written on their conscience to condemn them.
2. Why send the Gospel if that is so? Leave them in the same state as little children.
thinking of...
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them
(Rom 2:14-15)