Can someone explain something to me?

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M

Miri

Guest
#21
I think it’s all relative, it you are sick and poor. Then all rich and pharmaceutical people are
evil.

If you are rich, you don’t think about it.

If you are in the pharamacetica, group you don’t think about it.

If you live in the UK you don’t think pharmaceutical companies are evil. We pay £8.50
per perscription but many get them completely free (pensioners, kids, people on benefits, etc).

If you live in a third world company, you think pharmaceutical companies are miracle workers.

If you are a rich born again Christian you thank God for your blessings and act responsibly with
your wealth.

And so on.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
#22
... I don't know what to say. Evil and greedy is found in poor people, too. However, I wouldn't correct someone who said "Upper-class/wealthy/large-business executives are evil greedy people". I would probably say "yeaah!". I wouldn't become their lawyer.



When I was younger and was reading a lot of conspiracy theories, I also believed that. I believed (but didn't share my belief with many) that the government tries to dumb us down and break our faith through TV and processed food. It's stupid, I know, you can laugh if you want. I wasn't circumspect about medicine, doctors, pharmaceuticals (maybe about pharmaceuticals, yes - because they are chemical, blah, blah), but about food yes. I even tried to become raw vegan. I failed :D.

So, religion is at the basis. Now, I have a child and I am glad that I am no longer obsessed about these conspiracy theories, but I see a lot of parents who refuse to vaccinate their children and that makes me very mad and angry, but then I remember that I could have been one of them.

These people are brainwashed (like I was) by ideas such as: Bill Gates wants to reduce the population so that's why he provides vaccines (because he said vaccines are a mean to reduce the population - of course, I, now, understand the context), a lot of additives in food can produce drastic body changes which will make girls enter puberty earlier so that they start their sexual life earlier, or it will make children confused about their genders etc.

There is also the Illuminati who wants to corrupt society, starting with children, with their food. Also with the tooth paste because it contains fluoride which damages the pineal gland (your third eye, your awareness). They (it's "they" or "the government", "the system") want to control easier the population and that can be done if the population is: 1. stupid 2. sexually corrupted 3. satisfied

So, these are some ideas that would occupy my mind when I was 22, 23. Enough old to know better, I know, but I got really scared and once I digested all this crap, I felt like an illuminated person, one of the few who really knows the truth.



What yoi believed when you were 22 is all true.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#23
1% of the world's population controls 90% of the world's wealth. No that aint evil.

Big pharma jacks the cost of lifesaving drugs to the stratosphere totally independent of cost due to their monopoly. That ain't evil either.

It's called CAPITALISM. Right Tommy?
Well, cool then. Since you are one of the people who believe the two myths, where do you get that stuff from? Who taught you that stuff and how is it connected to Christianity?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#24
I don’t remember which two companies they were, but they were required, by law, to notify the FDA when abnormal activity took place. They didn’t do it, but kept shipping over 8,000,000 opioids to a pharmacy whose population is < 200. So, they were culpable, too.
Absolutely true. They were criminal. But pharmacy isn't pharmaceutical companies.

RX is a pharmacy. (Are they still around?) Rite Aid is a pharmacy. CVS. Those are pharmacies. They dispense drugs. Pharmaceuticals create drugs.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#25
I think it’s all relative, it you are sick and poor. Then all rich and pharmaceutical people are
evil.

If you are rich, you don’t think about it.

If you are in the pharamacetica, group you don’t think about it.

If you live in the UK you don’t think pharmaceutical companies are evil. We pay £8.50
per perscription but many get them completely free (pensioners, kids, people on benefits, etc).

If you live in a third world company, you think pharmaceutical companies are miracle workers.

If you are a rich born again Christian you thank God for your blessings and act responsibly with
your wealth.

And so on.
I'm not rich, by a long shot, but some people in my family are. I don't think they're evil.

As another not-richer, do you think rich people are evil?

As for your pharmaceutical companies. I like one in particular. Glaxo. They were smart enough to use Seimen's Services to take care of their computers. AND Seimen's was smart enough to hire hubby to do just that. So, I like your pharmaceutical companies too. BUT, Glaxo does charge more for the drugs in America, because they do have to get back the cost of developing it, plus pay for all the drugs they tried to develop, but it didn't work out right, AND try and make a profit, otherwise, why have a business?

R & D cost a bundle, and America seems to be one of the few places on earth that doesn't regulate how much a company is allowed to charge for a product. So, who else can they hit for the cost of doing business, but Americans?
 
M

Miri

Guest
#28
I'm not rich, by a long shot, but some people in my family are. I don't think they're evil.

As another not-richer, do you think rich people are evil?

As for your pharmaceutical companies. I like one in particular. Glaxo. They were smart enough to use Seimen's Services to take care of their computers. AND Seimen's was smart enough to hire hubby to do just that. So, I like your pharmaceutical companies too. BUT, Glaxo does charge more for the drugs in America, because they do have to get back the cost of developing it, plus pay for all the drugs they tried to develop, but it didn't work out right, AND try and make a profit, otherwise, why have a business?

R & D cost a bundle, and America seems to be one of the few places on earth that doesn't regulate how much a company is allowed to charge for a product. So, who else can they hit for the cost of doing business, but Americans?

People who think both are evil are usually poor/sick. Like the person who probably made the
video for example. Not that it means all sick/poor people
think this way, but the ones that do are.


If a poor person who thought all rich people are evil, won the lottery I bet they would change
their mind. Lol
 
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GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
1,227
34
48
#29
What yoi believed when you were 22 is all true.
I believed that a small group of people (the Elite) tried to control the masses. And that almost every change in society was dictated by them (like, the feminist movement, the sexual revolution etc.). I no longer believe that. I think people are moved and inspired by ideas. But the greatest role was played by the historic background: the two world wars, the totalitarian regimes (nazism, communism). These historic events made a radical shift in people's worldview.

Also, a lot of the things I read in the conspiracy theories were taken from fictional books such as Brave New World by Aldous Huxley or George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
#30
I believed that a small group of people (the Elite) tried to control the masses. And that almost every change in society was dictated by them (like, the feminist movement, the sexual revolution etc.). I no longer believe that. I think people are moved and inspired by ideas. But the greatest role was played by the historic background: the two world wars, the totalitarian regimes (nazism, communism). These historic events made a radical shift in people's worldview.

Also, a lot of the things I read in the conspiracy theories were taken from fictional books such as Brave New World by Aldous Huxley or George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four.
Let's be clear.... I have 545 people in D.C. trying to control 330 million others.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,781
2,945
113
#31
Well, I was a hippie, till God saved me, and I never believed any conspiracy theories. In fact, (sorry to those who do believe this nonsense) I always thought anyone who believes conspiracy theories are uneducated and dumb. Now, back when I was a real hippie, living in a log cabin in the woods, and only one year of fine arts under my belt, I still thought that. Funny how someone who was uneducated could see through this nonsense. Ironically, as a hippie, I had 2 businesses going, and most of the hippies I knew made their living with home based arts and crafts. I made enough money to save for a large piece of property. Of course, there were lazy hippies, but mostly it was the men, the women worked like dogs to keep things going! (Do dogs work?)

I am not rich, but comfortable. So, I try and help out people who are poor, especially in third world countries. My house is comfortable and warm, although the snow is piling up outside. When the toilet plugs up, I get hubby to fix it. Or the drain in my bath tub more recently. My hubby fixing things, especially keeping old cars running for years and years is one reason why we were comfortable. Hard work, again, plus a job each for both of us! I think that people that work hard, mostly are going to be comfortable, at least in Canada. I have no idea how the American system works anymore. Having just spent a few days in Seattle, and seeing various cultural groups living in various enclaves, no racial or cultural integration I could see. But that could just be from Bellingham to Seattle, I guess!

As for as pharmaceutical companies, I love them to death. I literally would be dead by now without them. I take a lot of meds for so many autoimmune diseases. I will say, in Canada drug costs are controlled, plus most of the provincial governments, at least in Western Canada have insurance programs. I pay a small copay in Jan and Feb, by March I pay nothing for most of my drugs. Unless the provincial government doesn’t list them. Then my husband’s retirement health care plan covers them.

I think, (yes, I know about R&D and how expensive it is. My uncle was a chemist in one American pharmaceutical company, and his work was totally hush hush. Even his wife had no clue what drug he was developing or for what disease.), that the American companies are overcharging for drugs.

Take Rituxan, a biologic or chemo drug I was on for 3 years. It cost $2000 each for 2 infusions, 6 months apart. With my Alberta insurance, it cost me $25 each infusion. But a friend in Chicago, with the same kind of RA as me, getting the same infusions, paid $75,000 for the exact same 2 infusions. So, $4000 versus $75,000. That is a HUGE difference. Most people paid a little less - more like $55,000-65,000. But what is ten thousand or two between friends?

Americans are so afraid of socialist medicine, yet it has paid for absolutely every ill, operation, hospital cost, and most of the cost of my meds. Everyone has free and equal access to doctors and procedures and tests, except the very, very rich, who sometimes go abroad for surgeries, which is risky stuff, I have heard. I know someone that went to India for an MS procedure and had terrible problems. Plus, it was not covered by medicare, because it had been done in a foreign country. (Because it was not available in Canada.)

Anyway, my meds keep my going. I am constantly reviewing them, subtracting or sometimes adding new ones. I think healthy people love to criticize pharmaceuticals, because they have never experienced a sickness that is so debilitating and painful without the drugs, life is not worth living!
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,646
1,397
113
#32
Take Rituxan, a biologic or chemo drug I was on for 3 years. It cost $2000 each for 2 infusions, 6 months apart. With my Alberta insurance, it cost me $25 each infusion. But a friend in Chicago, with the same kind of RA as me, getting the same infusions, paid $75,000 for the exact same 2 infusions. So, $4000 versus $75,000. That is a HUGE difference. Most people paid a little less - more like $55,000-65,000. But what is ten thousand or two between friends?
Yes... Rituxan is the drug I had to do for 4 infusions. They told me that each little bag (one infusion) cost about $20,000... but through my insurance, and a "prescription assistance program", which cost me nothing, my out of pocket expense was about $3000 for all 4 infusions.

Still, Rituxan has been on the market for quite a long time, I would think that all the costs of developing it and bringing it to market had been amortized... the cost should have dropped a LOT.. at least to my way of thinking. THAT is the type of situation that I don't understand.
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,151
113
#33
Yes... Rituxan is the drug I had to do for 4 infusions. They told me that each little bag (one infusion) cost about $20,000... but through my insurance, and a "prescription assistance program", which cost me nothing, my out of pocket expense was about $3000 for all 4 infusions.

Still, Rituxan has been on the market for quite a long time, I would think that all the costs of developing it and bringing it to market had been amortized... the cost should have dropped a LOT.. at least to my way of thinking. THAT is the type of situation that I don't understand.
You would think the price would drop, but nations like Canada, and those in Europe, set prices for medicine. The Americans get stuck subsidizing drugs for the rest of the world. We could set prices too, but then the manufacturers wouldn't make enough money to opperate. The companies would soon exit the market, and there would be medicine for no one.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#36
People who think both are evil are usually poor/sick. Like the person who probably made the
video for example. Not that it means all sick/poor people
think this way, but the ones that do are.


If a poor person who thought all rich people are evil, won the lottery I bet they would change
their mind. Lol
Actually, most poor people who win the lottery are poor in a year or two again. :/
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#39
Yes... Rituxan is the drug I had to do for 4 infusions. They told me that each little bag (one infusion) cost about $20,000... but through my insurance, and a "prescription assistance program", which cost me nothing, my out of pocket expense was about $3000 for all 4 infusions.

Still, Rituxan has been on the market for quite a long time, I would think that all the costs of developing it and bringing it to market had been amortized... the cost should have dropped a LOT.. at least to my way of thinking. THAT is the type of situation that I don't understand.
For every Rituxan they develop, nine drugs failed. They're paying for failure too.

It really does seem wrong, (still can't get over Lyrica cost $700 a month WITH insurance!), but what is the other choice?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,781
2,945
113
#40
For every Rituxan they develop, nine drugs failed. They're paying for failure too.

It really does seem wrong, (still can't get over Lyrica cost $700 a month WITH insurance!), but what is the other choice?
Oh my! Lyrica costs nothing like that in Canada, and I am convinced the drug manufacturers are still making money, otherwise they wouldn’t be selling it. Although I grant R&D may be mostly in the US, the US has 10x the population, so it would make more, even at Canadian prices, simply because so many more people buy it. (With insurance?? I missed that the first read! Oh my, indeed!)

Of course, Rituxan is a biologic and they are very hard to produce and fussy to keep, being a live bacteria. All the biologics have to be kept refrigerated at all times. I never handled Rituxan, it was sent from a specialized pharmacy to the infusion site. And that infusion site, including the full time nurses was also paid for by the drug companies. All the infusion biologics.

Again, this is where socialized medicine has a real advantage over capitalistic medicine, because the federal government can and will regulate prices. Interesting note on this, the Canadian government recently informed the generic companies it was going to be making changes and lowering prices. These companies got together and offered the government a deal - lower than the government would have set. But, they figured the lawyers and bargaining would have cost more than just collaborating on a deal, in which all the generics had the same price cut. Is that free enterprise? Taking a cut to save money? Not sure about that!