Denominations in which pastor's livelihood is NOT dependent on congregation

Oh I almost forgot - before you say $2,000 is a pittance I will mention we are in a small town in southwest TN. $2,000 is worth a lot more here than it would be in Los Angeles.

Blog on the "mystery of iniquity" can be found Here

My pastor is what, in our denomination, we call a "tent maker." Our church is small and struggling, so our pastor gets part-time pay from us and has another job on the side. (tent maker refers to the profession of Saint Paul, btw ). The denomination we used to be in was not in favor of that arrangement, saying that a pastor is a full-time job and it is unfair to expect a man to do both. In a way, they're right. But for us, that was the only option...that or go to one of the Roman Catholic churches across the street .

The denomination we are in now is more in favor of tent-makers. There is a biblical template for it, but being in that situation I would have to say in many ways it is far from ideal. But the main point is that we're getting fed by a man after God's own heart, instead of wasting away in some other church that doesn't preach the Bible.

Yeah, tent maker. Our previous pastor (still alive, retired) was a bus driver and did carpentry work on the side. He also did a lot of construction work at church as we expanded... and remodeled... and remodeled... and fixed a sagging floor... and expanded... his fingerprints (and hammer marks) are all over our church.

Actually when our church first started out he wouldn't take anything. After the church got going, the congregation insisted he take a percentage of the tithes. After the church got bigger HE insisted the percentage be dropped to a bit more than half of what it was. I don't remember what he was paid by the church at the point when he retired, but we all knew it wasn't nearly as much as he was worth.

Currently our church runs somewhere around 110-ish on Sunday mornings. We have had two pastors now, the current one and the retired one, and one assistant pastor, and all of them had secular jobs. And all three of them seemed to be good at construction work, which is a good thing because we're talking about expanding the fellowship hall...

Every pastors' livelihood should depend upon the church; the Levi were to be supported by the people. It is to the churches shame that pastors have to work on top of WORKING!!!!!! But people do not want to tyth either, so there isn't money for the pastor after the church bills for most churches, which are small. People don't like to "obey" when money is concerned; they love themselves more not knowing the blessings they forfeit.

The churches of Christ are all autonomous.. there is no central government, or committee. Each assembly decides what is best for them. Smaller assemblies usually have "volunteer" preachers, or even itinerant preachers.

I imagine that most larger assemblies have a salaried preacher. The salary will go up, depending on the size of the congregation. I was a little surprised to learn how much our preacher was paid. Our congregation is just under 1000 members.

Also, our preacher is not a pastor. He is a younger man, with two young children.

I have mixed feelings about having a preacher who is also a pastor. Being a pastor should be almost a full-time thing.. or full time for whatever time the man has outside his secular job. Being a preacher IS a full time, paying job, for most preachers. They go to seminary, get degrees, advanced degrees, etc... and are hired by congregations specifically to bring good, Bible based lessons to the congregation. And most of them have a talent for public speaking. (not all, though...)

The churches of Christ are different from many other non-denom or even many denominations, in that a preacher (what most of you erroneously call a 'pastor') does not "run" a church. He is simply an employed preacher/teacher for the assembled body. Assemblies are "run" by elders and deacons..

In smaller assemblies, I imagine that one of the pastor/elders would bring a lesson/sermon to the assembly. After all, one of the required qualities of a pastor/elder is that he should be able to teach others.

In my way of thinking, that would be the ideal situation... no "paid" preacher, just individual members of the assembly giving sermons each week. But, let's face it... not everyone is good at that. I would not be good at it. I'm ok in personal, smaller settings, but to stand and simply expound on a topic for 30 minutes or so is definitely not my forte'....

As Dirty Harry said.... "a man's got to know his limitations"

There's a lot of assumption in this.

1. You assume levitical law carries over to modern day pastors. Pastors are not priests. Well... Catholics have priests, but even they no longer make blood sacrifices every day.

2. You assume all pastors with a secular job have a secular job because the church lacks money. I know for a fact this is not always true. My own pastor made an executive decision to reduce the amount he is paid, because he felt he was being paid too much for the church work he did... and he also drove a school bus.

3. You assume all churches could support pastors if everybody tithed. Have you seen how small some churches are? Were this rigidly enforced, some pastors would be living in a shack and eating ramen noodles for every meal.

4. You assume church duties at all churches should take up all the pastor's working time. With large churches this is probably true, but some small churches don't have a lot of problems that the pastor needs to oversee all the time. What are pastors of small churches to do, sit at home and play solitaire for 96 hours a week?

It's easy to make broad-brush statements, and I understand that excoriation can be fun. But you really need to look at your assumptions before you excoriate.

I easily live on $2,000 a month.

The role to which we have placed on Pastors is due to our churches being in a state of unbelief. The responsibility being placed on them is supposed to be taken care through the Church Body.

Please Show me the Ordination and or the responsibilities of a Pastor in the Holy Writ.

That logic tho... the pastor is not allowed to have aa worldly job but live from the congregation. But the congregation works worldly jobs and supports the pastor with that but that is ok... lol what

Most pastors I known have at least had a part time job, but most of their churches are small. From watching televangelists, it seems that most of them are well off.

Why are some so stingy as to endeavor to muzzle the ox that treads out the grain?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Let's not forget, it is God that ordains a preacher and not man. Any preacher really putting out God's word, realizes it is His word not theirs. I have been given sermons that I didn't want to deliver, thinking these people aren't ready for this.

I worked for 7 years (preaching) in the mission field. At no time did I ever receive a salary for such. In fact, I paid for the privilege to do it.

There are many small churches that don't pay their pastors enough to support them, so they have to maintain a full time job.

There are also many missionaries that go out as "tent-making" missionaries, meaning they support themselves through some kind of vocation. A good example of this would be all the missionaries working in china as English teachers.

It's odd to me that people expect their pastor to come to their beckoning call when they have a need but gripe because he doesn't have a public job ?!?! You are his job along with every other congregation member . To council you and pray over you in the hospital and visit your lost family members and so on.

If a church can't afford to pay the preacher that's a different story. We went through a period like that and the pastor ask the church to stop paying him for a while and focus the money elsewhere and got himself a part time job until things straightened out as they are now.

For those interested you can find a study Here on the ministry gifts of the early Church...Pastor / Teachers come under section "3C".

Again.... every pastor should be able to teach. But every teacher is not qualified to be a pastor.

There is a difference.

I suppose as long as the small church you are talking about have no sick, no married people, people with loved ones, who have trouble in their lives, and especially as long as it's just our for and no more and the church does not need to grow you might you might be right. And ofcourse the pastor only needs 5 min. a day to study G-d's Word and 10 min. before Sunday service to prepare a speech!!!! You must not be a leader of anything important..... AND YOU ARE RIGHT PEOPLE SHOULD TITHE!!!!!! SHAME ON THE CHURCH WHO DOES NOT!!!!!! MAGICALLY THE ELECTRIC, SEWAGE, HEAT, AND RENT ARE PAID!!!!!!

Perhaps you have not seen many churches. Or perhaps you have seen a lot of churches and roundly condemned them all for not being exactly like your church.

In my church all those needs you listed are taken care of by many people, and we don't do it because somebody pays us to do it. We do it because it is needed. Also our pastor spends more time preparing for a sermon than you seem to spend thinking about the post you are making. Unlike you, our pastor does not blindly blast accusations and make wild assumptions.