Is talking about offensive weapons acceptable in a Christian community?

[Rachel20]

Hi mj007,

That is a good point and I do understand where you are coming from. However I should think a discussion should always be open and welcome, because clearly there are many people on the forum who feel the need to have a gun.

Are they more uncouth than you? Possibly. Are they more evolved? Possibly.

The fact is we can't categorize people as totally bad or good just because they will kill somebody or if they disagree with you. You never know what you would do unless you face a similar situation.

Crime is proportional to the density of human populace in any given area. There are really high incidences of gun violences in cities and mass shootings in America which is a problem that needs to be addressed.
It's interesting to hear other people's opinions on this.

You also have to understand the demographics of people you address here in this forum. This is Christian Chat with a huge population of Americans and America is famous for a stereotype - the conservative Bible belt Christian.

It is part of their culture to conflate Christian values with American values. Then of course religion comes into play as a method of control.

Anyway, in rural America where the population density is low, people feel safer having a gun. Honestly if you make a trip to rural America, you will know what I am talking about - empty vastness with just about nothing in sight.

(it should be the same in Europe - I only visited the big cities there so I can't speak on it)

A gun is just another tool for them - hunting, recreation whatever comes to their fancy. There is nothing much else to do.

We do need a discussion and a deeper understanding of guns in urban areas and how much of it falls into the hands of psychopathic killers.

But I would like to think it is beyond the scope of religion. Personally, though I agree with you culturally, I also understand basic human nature and the principle of one's need to defend oneself. Be it through a gun or whatever have you. However, I am strongly against suppressing discussion of it based on religion, whether FOR or AGAINST.

Weapons kill people. Whether you use it as a door stop, for sport killing defenceless animals, target practice, home protection, offensive weapons are designed to either mutilate, or kill a human being.

So regardless of what you are glorifying about an offensive weapon, to me, it still connects to the fact that they kill people.

Maybe in America, you would teach your kids about guns like that is normal. But in other parts of the world, I'm sure that parents would keep their kids away from talk of guns.

You could talk about a baseball bat for example, which is connected to baseball. But we all know this is an object which is often used as an offensive weapon, but is not designed for that. So if you were talking about using it as an offensive weapon, eg. beating up sand bags as target practise, or smashing up watermelons, then you are not really talking about baseball are you?

When it comes to guns, it doesn't matter what the target it, the point at which the trigger is pulled and a bullet is fired it has become actively offensive and dangerous.

I know this is very cultural in America, normalised, but I assume this is an international community, not just an American community, and not a community where Americans are allowed to override the fact that this is an international community?

Not every country in the world has such relaxed gun rights as America has, and neither does every country want it to be that way. Where do all the mass shootings happen? I'll tell you now, if mass shootings would happen from a UK 2nd Amendment, I'd rather not have one. I think things are fine just the way they are.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Weapons kill people. Whether you use it as a door stop, for sport killing defenceless animals, target practice, home protection, offensive weapons are designed to either mutilate, or kill a human being.

So regardless of what you are glorifying about an offensive weapon, to me, it still connects to the fact that they kill people.

Maybe in America, you would teach your kids about guns like that is normal. But in other parts of the world, I'm sure that parents would keep their kids away from talk of guns.

You could talk about a baseball bat for example, which is connected to baseball. But we all know this is an object which is often used as an offensive weapon, but is not designed for that. So if you were talking about using it as an offensive weapon, eg. beating up sand bags as target practise, or smashing up watermelons, then you are not really talking about baseball are you?

When it comes to guns, it doesn't matter what the target it, the point at which the trigger is pulled and a bullet is fired it has become actively offensive and dangerous.

I know this is very cultural in America, normalised, but I assume this is an international community, not just an American community, and not a community where Americans are allowed to override the fact that this is an international community?

Not every country in the world has such relaxed gun rights as America has, and neither does every country want it to be that way. Where do all the mass shootings happen? I'll tell you now, if mass shootings would happen from a UK 2nd Amendment, I'd rather not have one. I think things are fine just the way they are.

Remember that this IS the Internet and likeminded people like to talk about things they like.

GOD looks at the heart,man looks at outward man,nevertheless It's true that If we sow to the flesh we reap corruption.

 

[posthuman]

Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
(Romans 6:13)
​

this word translated as 'instruments' is interesting.

it is ὅπλα, "hopla" - the same word used in the term 'hoplite phalanx' which is the famous Greek armed & armored unit of war. in that term, phalanx is the word that means 'unit' and hoplite ((which is, hopla-ite, having hopla)) means 'armed & armored'
Paul uses this word two other times, in Romans 13:12, where it is there translated "armor" and again in 2 Corinthians 10:4, where it is translated "weapons"

a literal translation of this word in English is "armament" - which is a catch-all for tools of warfare, either armor or weapons.

so a faithful reading of Romans 6:13 is that Paul is urging us to be weapons of righteousness, rather than weapons of unrighteousness. we should literally be God's own weapons - not against flesh, but against spiritual evil, against lies and unrighteousness.

this notion can be developed even further, adding scripture like Ephesians 6, the sword of the Spirit and the armor of God, and like Isaiah 49:2, where the prophet says God has made him like a polished arrow shaft, and his mouth like a sharp sword.

 

[Depleted]

Weapons kill people. Whether you use it as a door stop, for sport killing defenceless animals, target practice, home protection, offensive weapons are designed to either mutilate, or kill a human being.

So regardless of what you are glorifying about an offensive weapon, to me, it still connects to the fact that they kill people.

Maybe in America, you would teach your kids about guns like that is normal. But in other parts of the world, I'm sure that parents would keep their kids away from talk of guns.

You could talk about a baseball bat for example, which is connected to baseball. But we all know this is an object which is often used as an offensive weapon, but is not designed for that. So if you were talking about using it as an offensive weapon, eg. beating up sand bags as target practise, or smashing up watermelons, then you are not really talking about baseball are you?

When it comes to guns, it doesn't matter what the target it, the point at which the trigger is pulled and a bullet is fired it has become actively offensive and dangerous.

I know this is very cultural in America, normalised, but I assume this is an international community, not just an American community, and not a community where Americans are allowed to override the fact that this is an international community?

Not every country in the world has such relaxed gun rights as America has, and neither does every country want it to be that way. Where do all the mass shootings happen? I'll tell you now, if mass shootings would happen from a UK 2nd Amendment, I'd rather not have one. I think things are fine just the way they are.

This offends me, so should this be acceptable in a Christian community?

Since when is offense decided at whim? And then brought up as if everyone else's whim must be the line is the sand?

In Gethsemane, after Jesus prayed, and when the authorities came to take him away, someone who loved him cut a man's ear off. That means the disciples were even armed to the teeth. AND, the only reason a gun wasn't used was because it hadn't been invented yet.

So, pretend this is about declaring God's righteousness all you want, but the reality is you just want life to be comfortable for you. NOT the goal of a Christian.

As for where all the mass shootings happen? Got a question for you. In your safe little country did lack-of-guns really stop quite a few idiots lately from ramming their vehicles into crowds near or on bridges? How about that! Mass-murder in your own country quite a few times, and you're preaching against guns? Maybe you should worry about making vehicles illegal.

Oi vey!

 

[Depleted]

Some don't mind being a block of stumbling. If it feels good and they like, they do it..
Nobody's perfect they'll claim.. All the while no rent heart or crying out to please the one they say they love..
Just a "who are you" response... Or look away...

Sometimes it's hard to hold back when injustice prevails.. look at The Psalms.. or Paul calling out Peter....

Look at the Psalms. Quite a few of them were David asking God to help him kill.

And you seem to have a repeated mission on this site now. You're thing is [FONT=&quot]‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’[/FONT]

Luke 18:9-14

 

[Depleted]

seems like there is nothing that be discussed in Christian circles where someone, somewhere, will not take offense.
What is the world coming to?

Nice quote at the end of your post, btw.

Dark pink roses offend me.

 

[shittim]

I know what you mean, they make me want to get out my "offensive weapon" Roundup herbicide and show them
just who has thumbs!

Or is Roundup a "defensive" weapon against unwanted foliage?

The major premise of the OP is in error, nothing is a weapon until used as a weapon.
A firearm is a mechanical device designed to ignite a priming compound which ignites a propellant which burns giving off a large volume of gas which then exhausts through the only opening, which is the barrel this propelling a projectile ahead of it.

It's as dumb as a doorknob, neither offensive or defensive.

 

[hornetguy]

I agree somewhat with the OP.... if and when I find a weapon offensive, I won't talk about it.

I won't talk about nerve gas, because I find it offensive.

I won't talk about "bouncing bettys" because I find them offensive.

you get my drift, I'm sure....

 

[kaylagrl]

Weapons kill people. Whether you use it as a door stop, for sport killing defenceless animals, target practice, home protection, offensive weapons are designed to either mutilate, or kill a human being.

So regardless of what you are glorifying about an offensive weapon, to me, it still connects to the fact that they kill people.

Maybe in America, you would teach your kids about guns like that is normal. But in other parts of the world, I'm sure that parents would keep their kids away from talk of guns.

You could talk about a baseball bat for example, which is connected to baseball. But we all know this is an object which is often used as an offensive weapon, but is not designed for that. So if you were talking about using it as an offensive weapon, eg. beating up sand bags as target practise, or smashing up watermelons, then you are not really talking about baseball are you?

When it comes to guns, it doesn't matter what the target it, the point at which the trigger is pulled and a bullet is fired it has become actively offensive and dangerous.

I know this is very cultural in America, normalised, but I assume this is an international community, not just an American community, and not a community where Americans are allowed to override the fact that this is an international community?

Not every country in the world has such relaxed gun rights as America has, and neither does every country want it to be that way. Where do all the mass shootings happen? I'll tell you now, if mass shootings would happen from a UK 2nd Amendment, I'd rather not have one. I think things are fine just the way they are.

Whats the hate for Americans? You have your view,they have theirs. You got on with the same nasty comments in the thread about the cop that was shot. So you're against guns,good for you. Others have a different opinion.

Something to consider in the following article. Of course this has been argued back and forth for years and years. Its about how Hitler used guns laws already in place,and yes,I know there are arguments over this subject.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/365103/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook