Our All-sufficient One

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

NetChaplain

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
658
220
43
#1
How often is it mistakenly seen that obedience is the way to Christ, instead of the fact that being in Christ first is the way to obedience. It’s God Himself that we’re after, then the obedience, or one can miss Him altogether, finding only a casual desire to be in Him and not the actual union. Let us venerate what He commands after venerating Him foremost! “Circumcision (obedience) is that of the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter”—or law (Rom 2:29). This type of “circumcision” is not physical but done by the Spirit in separating the soul (Ro 8:9) from the “dominion” and “guilt” and of old nature (Rom 6:14; 8:1) by being “partakers of the divine nature” (2Pe 1:4), which is the new nature created in Christ’s “image” (Rom 8:29; Eph 4:24; Col 3:10).

Desiring obedience is greater than having to be commanded it, and this is the point of it all; not remaking the old nature but eternally implanting an altogether never-before-existing new nature! It must be the Lord Jesus first, then all else—especially obedience; for obedience is the outward evidence of inward salvation obtained (for others to see - Mat 5:16). Bearing obedience in the wrong way, with the wrong intention will mislead one from knowing where true obedience derives (the Holy Spirit using the “new man,” i.e. new nature - Eph 3:16).

Since Christ’s resurrection, one cannot be truly obedient (according to God’s provision) apart from the Spirit first imparting rebirth, which renders the soul under the consistent “work” of God “in you” (Phl 2:13). If one permanently leaves their profession of Christianity, it manifests that the soul has yet to be reborn, for the saved will never desire to leave Christ due to the “work in you.” This is plainly seen in numerous Scriptural passages, esp. 1Jo 2:19.

Obedience in the capacity of it being a means of receiving God’s “forgiveness” was within the function of the Law for Israel via the priesthood (e.g. Num 24-31); but God’s goal in this final earthly dispensation for the believer is to obey apart from threat (law), and in the capacity of a desirous heart (new nature or new man)—which is never in need of law as a motive (Gal 5:23)!
NC








Our All-sufficient One


“And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.” (Gen 8:6, 7). The unclean bird (Lev 11:13, 15) made its escape, and found, no doubt, a resting-place on some floating carcass. It sought not the ark again. Not so the dove; “She found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark . . . and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off” (Gen 8:9-11).

Here is the lovely emblem of the renewed mind, which, amid the surrounding desolation, seeks and finds its rest and portion in Christ; and not only so, but also lays hold of the earnest of the inheritance, and furnishes the blessed proof that judgment has passed away, and that a renewed earth is coming fully into view.

The carnal mind, on the contrary, can rest in anything and everything but Christ. It can feed upon all the uncleanness. “The olive leaf” has no attraction for it. It (carnal mind—NC) can find all it needs is a scene of death, and hence is not occupied with the thought of a new world and its glories; but the heart that is taught and exercised by the Spirit of God, can only rest and rejoice in that in which He rests and rejoices. It rests in the Ark of His salvation “until the time of the restitution of all things” (Act 3:21).

May it be thus with you and me. May the Lord Jesus be the abiding rest and portion of our hearts, that so we may not seek them in a world which is under the judgement of God. The dove went back to Noah, and waited for his time of rest: and we should ever find our place with the Lord Jesus, until the time of His exaltation and glory in the ages to come. “He that shall come will come, and will not tarry” (Heb 10:37). All we want, as to this, is a little patience. May the Father direct our hearts into His love, and into “the patience of Jesus Christ” (Rev 1:9).

It is interesting to look at this entire subject of the ark and the deluge, in connection with that most important and deeply significant ordinance of water baptism. A truly baptized person, that is, one as the apostle says, “obeys from the heart that type of doctrine to which he was delivered” (Rom 6:17), is one who has “passed” from the old world into the new (Jhn 5:24; 1Jo 3:14), in spirit and principle, and by faith.

The water rolls over his person, signifying that his “old man” is buried, that his place in nature is ignored—that his old man is entirely set aside—in short, that he has died (Rom 6:2; Gal 2:20; Col 2:20; 3:3). When he sinks beneath the water, expression is given to the fact that his name, place and existence in nature are put out of sight—is buried in the grave of the Lord Jesus, and never can come into the Father’s sight again (e.g. Psa 103:12).

When he rises up out of the water, expression is given to the truth that he only comes up as the possessor of a new life, even the resurrection-Life of the Lord Jesus. If He had not been raised from the dead, the believer could not come out of the water, but should remain buried beneath its surface, as the simple expression of the place which justly belongs to nature.

But, inasmuch as the Lord Jesus rose from the dead, in the power of a new life, having entirely put away our sins, we also come up out of the water; and, in so doing, set forth the fact that we are put, by the grace of God, and through the death of His Son, in full possession of a new life, to which divine righteousness inseparably attaches. “We are buried with Him by baptism into death; that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life” (Ro 6:4).

The ark had borne Noah and his family safely over the waters of judgement. It had carried him from the old into the new world, where he now takes his place as a worshiper; and be it observed, it was “unto the Lord” he erected his altar. Superstition would have worshiped the ark, as being the means of salvation. It is ever the tendency of the heart to displace God by His ordinances (pride ever seeks self wrongfully—NC). Now, the ark was a very marked and manifest ordinance; but Noah’s faith passed beyond the ark to the God of the ark; and hence, when he stepped out of it, instead of casting back a lingering look at it, or regarding it as an object of worship or veneration, he built an altar unto the Lord, and worshiped Him; and the ark is never heard of again (last incident in Gen 9:18—NC).

This teaches us a very simple, but at the same time, a very seasonable lesson. The moment the heart lets slip the reality of the Father Himself, there is no placing a limit to its declension; it is on the highway to the grossest forms of idolatry. In the judgement of superstition, the ordinance becomes everything, and God is shut out; and the name of God is only made use of to exalt the ordinance, and give it a deep hold and influence over the heart and mind.

Thus it was that the children of Israel worshiped the brazen serpent. That which had once been a channel of blessing to them, because used of God, became, when their hearts had departed from Him, an object of superstitious veneration. Hence Hezekiah has to break it in pieces, and call it “a piece of brass.” In itself, it was only “Nehushtan,” but when used of God, it was a means of rich blessing. Now, faith owned it to be what divine revelation said it was: but superstition, throwing, as it ever does, divine revelation overboard, lost the real purpose of God in the thing, and actually made a god of the thing itself (2Kings 18:4).

Is there not a deep lesson in all this for the present age? We live in an age of ordinances. The atmosphere which enwraps the professing church is impregnated with the elements of a traditional religion, which robs the soul of Christ and His divinely full salvation (i.e. growth from salvation—NC). It is not that human traditions boldly deny that there is such a person as Christ, or such a thing as the Cross of Christ: were they to do so, the eyes of many might be opened (instead of being distracted by improper comprehension of traditions - Mat 15:3, 9; Col 2:22—NC). However, it is not thus. The evil is of a far more insidious and dangerous character. Ordinances are added to Christ and the work of the Cross.

The sinner is not saved by Christ alone, but by Christ and ordinances (works—NC). Thus he is robbed of Christ altogether; for it will assuredly be found that Christ and ordinances will prove, in the sequel, to be ordinances and not Christ. This is a solemn consideration for all who stand up for a religion of ordinances (which are a must in their right place—NC). “If ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” It must be Christ wholly, or not at all.

The Enemy persuades men that they are honoring Christ when thy make much of His ordinances (i.e. get the order wrong, it’s not works then rebirth, but the inverse—NC); whereas, all the while he knows full well that they are, in reality, setting Christ entirely aside, and deifying the ordinance. I would only repeat a remark which I have made elsewhere, namely, that superstition makes everything of ordinance (manifesting trust mostly in obedience of self rather than it’s all grace from what God “works” in us - Phl 2:13—NC); infidelity and mysticism make nothing of it; while faith uses it according to divine appointment.



—C H Mackintosh (1820-1896)
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,533
1,866
113
#2
I love your opening statement. I'm curious . . . does your pastor teach these things as well? And also, do the folks in your church accept these teachings? I ask because I have brought up the same essential ideas and I was literally laughed at in my own home (during a pastoral visit) and mocked in the middle of Sunday morning classes.
 

NetChaplain

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
658
220
43
#3
I love your opening statement. I'm curious . . . does your pastor teach these things as well? And also, do the folks in your church accept these teachings? I ask because I have brought up the same essential ideas and I was literally laughed at in my own home (during a pastoral visit) and mocked in the middle of Sunday morning classes.
Hi and thanks for your reply! I would need you to be specific concerning what you mean "these things," because many in my church believes what I share.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,533
1,866
113
#4
Hi and thanks for your reply! I would need you to be specific concerning what you mean "these things," because many in my church believes what I share.
When I first arrived here in April of last year, I recall that you were one of the few that I related to in terms of general Biblical understandings. Most others seemed clueless to me . . . shallow and unclear like a mud puddle. And because I am mostly disrespected for my continual discussion of Circumcision of the Heart, it doesn't surprise me that I am, thus far, the only one to comment on your thread. And why are we the only two, thus far, to comment on such a thread? Because as said, Circumcision of the Heart is not widely accepted, and it is this set of Biblical teachings that I was mocked over and laughed at by a pastor.

Your opening statement didn't address the Purpose of Christ (which is fine), but it [did] address the Work of Christ, which is Spiritual Circumcision. Your statement also addressed the Effect of Christ . . . a changed life marked by obedience that does not come by our own power or volition, but by the Effectual Power of the new and Imputed Divine Nature.

I've listened to many "greats," even purchasing many hundreds of dollars worth of sermons and books from the likes of John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Gary Habermas, Hank Hannegraph, Billy Graham, Charles Stanley, CS Lewis, Vernon McGee, Ravi Zacharias, William Lane Craig, and many more that I have forgotten about . . . none of them taught the Circumcision of Christ. When I discovered that all-important doctrine, and when I realized that all of my favorite teachers never mentioned this at all . . . I was really disappointed. After Colossians 2:9-15 sunk deeper and deeper into my bones, the clearest teaching on Circumcision of the Heart, I began to see this teaching throughout the Bible. And when I saw this teaching, also made very clear (even with the KJV), I became angry that these teachings were kept from us, or at least . . . me and those I went to church with. I have been a part of the "church" for my entire 55-year life, and this teaching has never been an issue.

When we read of the many verses like the one below, how could anyone leave this out of their mouth . . . especially as a preacher or teacher of the Holy, most remarkable Word of God?

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NKJV - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."

Look at those bold-faced words that I emboldened. How can anyone deny them? Why do we not talk about this verse all . . . the . . . time?

Ezekiel 36:25-27 points directly to Colossians 2:9-15, and Colossians 2:9-15 points directly to Ezekiel 36:25-27.

What bothers me is that our "pastors" and "teachers" theoretically have their faces and noses in their Bibles much more than we do, for they are paid to preach and teach the Word. We, however, have jobs and depend upon them to show us the things that our mere human minds may have missed. But, these groups of men and women have not done so . . . at least not within the scope of my Christian life. If I had known about Circumcision of the Heart, this would have told me that I was, in fact, not a Christian though I always believed that I was. Circumcision of the Heart is the first portion of what it means to be Enabled to obey or "escape the world's corruption," as Peter put it. I wasn't behaving like a Christian, but more and more, I was behaving just as the Devil would have me. Clearly, I was NEVER doing the Will of our Father, but the unholy will of the Devil. I was taken captive by Satan's Power, or as Scripture also says, "Handed over to Satan." I couldn't escape corruption, and it didn't matter how much I cried out to God and begged Him to help me. As much as I was determined to drive past my favorite store to buy alcohol . . . I would inevitably find my arms and hands turning the steering wheel and parking in the parking lot. Drunk, I would weep, asking that God would perform a miracle and help me . . . but He didn't do it. I remained in alcoholism for many, many years, and of course . . . many of the sins that come with the typical alcoholic . . . I would do those things. Sexually out of control and so much more.

But if someone had shown me that I needed to ask for Circumcision of the Heart; if I had only understood this Holy Doctrine, I would have known what to ask for . . . to be alleviated of the Adamic Curse.
 

NetChaplain

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
658
220
43
#5
When I first arrived here in April of last year, I recall that you were one of the few that I related to in terms of general Biblical understandings. Most others seemed clueless to me . . . shallow and unclear like a mud puddle. And because I am mostly disrespected for my continual discussion of Circumcision of the Heart, it doesn't surprise me that I am, thus far, the only one to comment on your thread. And why are we the only two, thus far, to comment on such a thread? Because as said, Circumcision of the Heart is not widely accepted, and it is this set of Biblical teachings that I was mocked over and laughed at by a pastor.

Your opening statement didn't address the Purpose of Christ (which is fine), but it [did] address the Work of Christ, which is Spiritual Circumcision. Your statement also addressed the Effect of Christ . . . a changed life marked by obedience that does not come by our own power or volition, but by the Effectual Power of the new and Imputed Divine Nature.
Thanks for the reply, and like your comments! Concerning "circumcision of the heart" (Rom 2:29), it typifies God's work of separating the believer from the sin nature upon being saved or reborn; "Ye are not in the flesh" (Rom 8:9). Though it is in the believer we are not in it concerning its "dominion" and "damnation" (Rom 6:14; 8:1)--we being imparted with the "new man" or new nature created in the image of Christ (Col 3:10).

Always appreciate your instructional encouragement!
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,533
1,866
113
#6
Thanks for the reply, and like your comments! Concerning "circumcision of the heart" (Rom 2:29), it typifies God's work of separating the believer from the sin nature upon being saved or reborn; "Ye are not in the flesh" (Rom 8:9). Though it is in the believer we are not in it concerning its "dominion" and "damnation" (Rom 6:14; 8:1)--we being imparted with the "new man" or new nature created in the image of Christ (Col 3:10).

Always appreciate your instructional encouragement!
Amazing KJV connection you just helped me to see (for the first time). This is amazing: Why did Paul say to the reader in Romans that they are "not in the flesh"? Because . . . and also in the KJV, the "Flesh" had been cut away by Christ.

Colossians 2:11 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ . . ."

And verse 13 . . .

Colossians 2:11, 13 KJV - "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses"

The "pastor" that laughed at me as I taught him of the Circumcision of Christ, he countered me by saying that this was literal flesh and not of the Spiritual. This pastor had been teaching for over 40 years. Can you imagine that after 40 years of teaching, you wouldn't understand this most important teaching? And this is why I often feel that many teachers understand these things fully and realize that if they teach Circumcision of the Heart, they are, by default, obligated to teach obedience. Well, isn't that something . . . this same pastor actually taught us that obedience is not a required. And perhaps this is why he also taught that when he, a married man, sees a "Hot, young, gorgeous girl walk in front of me, if I don't tell myself, "Man, I want that!" . . . then I'm dead!"

This is the problem that I have witnessed many pastors face, which is that if they teach Spiritual Circumcision, then they will be obligated to discuss the Effectual obedience that comes with it. We can't help but change! We are caused to "walk in the Lord's decrees and commands," just as I quoted in the Ezekiel passages earlier. And if we're going to teach this bold and clear teaching, they will also be obligated to remove those who refuse to obey. And what if pastors do that? It could be a political end of their career by removal, or simply, the pastor will remove so many members there simply wouldn't be enough donating to keep him employed . . . cannot pay the bills.

This is ALL that I have seen in my lengthy lifetime . . . completely wayward churches that refuse to remove adulterers and adulteresses from their church positions, etc. Teaching the Truth has a cost, and it usually equates to isolation. So, I sure wish that I could attend your church. It sounds like I would be comfortable there and not feel like an outcast as with 100% every church I've attended since my Transformation began about six years ago.
 

NetChaplain

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
658
220
43
#7
[QUOTE="2ndTimothyGroup, post: 4824799, member: 305370" Well, isn't that something . . . this same pastor actually taught us that obedience is not a required.[/QUOTE]
It's salvation first, then obedience because the type of obedience God desires is that out of desire of the new nature by the Spirit, and not out of desire of the old nature by self.