Will You Recognize When Christ Comes Again?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L

_lost_words_

Guest
#1
#1
I was just thinking about the idea people have of Christ's 2nd coming, and I realized something kind of disturbing...it doesn't make sense according to the gospel.

The idea is that Jesus Christ himself, is going to return as he left to Heaven; he ascended in the flesh to heaven, so the idea is that Jesus Christ is going to descend out of Heaven upon his 2nd return.

This doesn't make sense to having faith though.

The Bible emphasizes that we have to believe that God exist:

Hebrews 11:6

" And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

1.) If Jesus Christ descends from Heaven physically, everyone will see him.

There is a Bible verse a lot of pastors use:

Revelation 1:7

"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen."

This contradicts itself because to believe that God exist, you have to have faith. Everyone will believe God exist, and everyone will therefore develop faith in God after seeing him physically descend out of the sky.

How do you deny someone who just split the sky, calls himself Jesus, and descends with a host of heavenly angels?

You can't.

But then this means everyone will repent - even those who did not believe before and will inherit salvation. That really doesn't seem just of God. At all, especially not for the believers who had faith even when God did not display himself in such a grand way.

-

2.) The Bible said that every eye will see Jesus Christ at his 1st coming; but physically thousands never saw Jesus?

Isaiah 40: 3 - 5

" A voice of one calling:

In the desert prepare the way for the Lord make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God. Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. And the glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it."

This is about the Christ's 1st coming, because the voice in the desert was John the Baptist:

Luke 3: 4

* Note how the title of this chapter is " John the Baptist Prepares the Way," *

" As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet:

' A voice of one calling in the desert, prepare the way for the Lord, and make straight paths for him."


John the Baptist was the one who called out from the desert to make paths for Jesus Christ coming; the 1st one. I say this to confirm that the verse about Jesus Christ's 1st coming says every eye will see him, just as the verse about Christ's second coming says every eye will see him. Isaiah prophesied about Jesus's first coming saying every eye will see him when the way was prepared ( by John the Baptist.)

So then...did every eye see Jesus?

Jesus Christ never left Jerusalem, and the gospel only reached the Gentiles after Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection. Even those who did physically see Jesus didn't believe - let alone the Gentiles who were miles away and not even aware of the Messiah at all in those times.

So then, why did the Bible say every eye will see Jesus Christ when he came the first time, if every eye did not see Jesus Christ the first time?

If the pastors insist that 2nd coming Christ, every eye will physically see him, then this teaching is contradictive because Isaiah, a prophet of God, said that every eye would see Jesus Christ when he first came, yet every eye did not physically see Jesus Christ.

Anyone else picking up on the conflict here?

Also, I want to note that Jesus says that John the Baptist was the Elijah everyone was waiting for at that time, but the people believed since Elijah went to heaven in a chariot of fire, he would return in the same manner. Instead, the prophecy of Elijah was fulfilled through John the Baptist, and the people waiting for the one to fulfill that prophecy - they beheaded him!

Realizing these things, it makes it clear that " every eye will see," is not referring to everyone on earth seeing the glory of Christ when he comes the 2nd time, as not every physical eye saw Jesus Christ the first time Christ came!

It is contradictive according to the Bible for Jesus Christ to physically come popping out of Heaven for the 2nd time; so then, how is Christ going to come a 2nd time?

Does anyone even know for sure?

And if not, how are we ever going to recognize our Savior?


Some white clothed men ( angels,) asked the disciples why they were looking into the sky after Jesus ascended; then assured them that Jesus would come as he came. Why would they tell them to stop looking at the sky, then express that Jesus would come from the sky again? A lot of people are doing the same thing as the people who believed Elijah would come back in a chariot of fire in Jesus Christ's time - they are expecting some splendid display of God's power and some miraculous appearance of the Christ from the sky.

There are verses that talk about Jesus Christ coming on a cloud:

Rev 1:7 and a few more -

Then there are verses that talk about God coming with fire after he comes on a cloud?

According to what the pastor told me, when Jesus comes a 2nd time, it is to bring salvation as Hebrews 9:28 says; he told me that salvation meant going to heaven, as in judgement day basically.

But wait - Jesus coming on the clouds and judgement day are spoken of in the same instance?

But the Bible says this:

Luke 21: 27

" At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place stand up and lift your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Jesus Christ is talking about 2nd Coming Christ in this passage!!

Jesus himself says that when they see the Son of Man coming on cloud - redemption is NEAR.

Meaning that going to heaven is not happening at the same time 2nd Coming Christ returns!

2nd Coming Christ is definitely to come, but not in the way several people expect!

How will we recognize our Savior?

My pastor could no longer answer me this after we talked about it!


 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#2
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#2
When Christ came the first time, many bible scholars studied scripture to decide what that would be like. They got it wrong, and told people not to recognize Him.
 
H

hattiebod

Guest
#3
#3
_lost_words_ said:
I was just thinking about the idea people have of Christ's 2nd coming, and I realized something kind of disturbing...it doesn't make sense according to the gospel.

The idea is that Jesus Christ himself, is going to return as he left to Heaven; he ascended in the flesh to heaven, so the idea is that Jesus Christ is going to descend out of Heaven upon his 2nd return.

This doesn't make sense to having faith though.

The Bible emphasizes that we have to believe that God exist:

Hebrews 11:6

" And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

1.) If Jesus Christ descends from Heaven physically, everyone will see him.

There is a Bible verse a lot of pastors use:

Revelation 1:7

"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen."

This contradicts itself because to believe that God exist, you have to have faith. Everyone will believe God exist, and everyone will therefore develop faith in God after seeing him physically descend out of the sky.

How do you deny someone who just split the sky, calls himself Jesus, and descends with a host of heavenly angels?

You can't.

But then this means everyone will repent - even those who did not believe before and will inherit salvation. That really doesn't seem just of God. At all, especially not for the believers who had faith even when God did not display himself in such a grand way.

-

2.) The Bible said that every eye will see Jesus Christ at his 1st coming; but physically thousands never saw Jesus?

Isaiah 40: 3 - 5

" A voice of one calling:

In the desert prepare the way for the Lord make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God. Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. And the glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it."

This is about the Christ's 1st coming, because the voice in the desert was John the Baptist:

Luke 3: 4

* Note how the title of this chapter is " John the Baptist Prepares the Way," *

" As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet:

' A voice of one calling in the desert, prepare the way for the Lord, and make straight paths for him."


John the Baptist was the one who called out from the desert to make paths for Jesus Christ coming; the 1st one. I say this to confirm that the verse about Jesus Christ's 1st coming says every eye will see him, just as the verse about Christ's second coming says every eye will see him. Isaiah prophesied about Jesus's first coming saying every eye will see him when the way was prepared ( by John the Baptist.)

So then...did every eye see Jesus?

Jesus Christ never left Jerusalem, and the gospel only reached the Gentiles after Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection. Even those who did physically see Jesus didn't believe - let alone the Gentiles who were miles away and not even aware of the Messiah at all in those times.

So then, why did the Bible say every eye will see Jesus Christ when he came the first time, if every eye did not see Jesus Christ the first time?

If the pastors insist that 2nd coming Christ, every eye will physically see him, then this teaching is contradictive because Isaiah, a prophet of God, said that every eye would see Jesus Christ when he first came, yet every eye did not physically see Jesus Christ.

Anyone else picking up on the conflict here?

Also, I want to note that Jesus says that John the Baptist was the Elijah everyone was waiting for at that time, but the people believed since Elijah went to heaven in a chariot of fire, he would return in the same manner. Instead, the prophecy of Elijah was fulfilled through John the Baptist, and the people waiting for the one to fulfill that prophecy - they beheaded him!

Realizing these things, it makes it clear that " every eye will see," is not referring to everyone on earth seeing the glory of Christ when he comes the 2nd time, as not every physical eye saw Jesus Christ the first time Christ came!

It is contradictive according to the Bible for Jesus Christ to physically come popping out of Heaven for the 2nd time; so then, how is Christ going to come a 2nd time?

Does anyone even know for sure?

And if not, how are we ever going to recognize our Savior?


Some white clothed men ( angels,) asked the disciples why they were looking into the sky after Jesus ascended; then assured them that Jesus would come as he came. Why would they tell them to stop looking at the sky, then express that Jesus would come from the sky again? A lot of people are doing the same thing as the people who believed Elijah would come back in a chariot of fire in Jesus Christ's time - they are expecting some splendid display of God's power and some miraculous appearance of the Christ from the sky.

There are verses that talk about Jesus Christ coming on a cloud:

Rev 1:7 and a few more -

Then there are verses that talk about God coming with fire after he comes on a cloud?

According to what the pastor told me, when Jesus comes a 2nd time, it is to bring salvation as Hebrews 9:28 says; he told me that salvation meant going to heaven, as in judgement day basically.

But wait - Jesus coming on the clouds and judgement day are spoken of in the same instance?

But the Bible says this:

Luke 21: 27

" At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place stand up and lift your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Jesus Christ is talking about 2nd Coming Christ in this passage!!

Jesus himself says that when they see the Son of Man coming on cloud - redemption is NEAR.

Meaning that going to heaven is not happening at the same time 2nd Coming Christ returns!

2nd Coming Christ is definitely to come, but not in the way several people expect!

How will we recognize our Savior?

My pastor could no longer answer me this after we talked about it!
Click to expand...
Mmmmm. Interesting. What I think about when reading what you have written, is 'does it matter?' And I do not mean that disrespectfully :) I just mean, we are told He will return and so He will. John tells us the Bible we have is but the tip of the iceberg compared to all we could read and understand about God...but we have enough. We will not know all until we are with Him. I think He will return in the air, I think it will be magnificent...words cannot describe it :) but just because He does arrive on His white stallion, surrounded by His army, does not actually mean everyone will believe He is who He is. In the OT there are many instances where God was present, showing miracles, His power, yet their was rebellion and unbelief. He actually talked to the Israelites and then when Moses is up the mountain, they went feral :) rejected Gods authority and were totally disobedient, yet not long before they were in fear of their lives and begged Moses to talk to God, as they would die if they did! So, I think, as we are told, there will be much confusion, false teaching, false prophets etc. Satan recognises the existence of God...but rejects His authority. There are many that have done that and will continue to do so. Those who truly are saved and know the Lord, will recognise Him. Just as the thief on the cross recognised Christ...there will be no mistaking Him. Its just a mind boggling....truly exciting thing to think about....God Bless. <><
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#4
#4
RedTent said:
When Christ came the first time, many bible scholars studied scripture to decide what that would be like. They got it wrong, and told people not to recognize Him.
Click to expand...
Their not recognizing him was because if they had read what the prophets said they would have understood. They were expecting a mighty king that would save them from the Romans. This was not what was promised. Jesus did not meet "their" qualifications of what "they" wanted.

This is the same way it could happen again. Except this time it will be a false messiah that they WILL accept. The world is ripe for anyone who will be able to solve all the problems. When Jesus returns there will be no mistaking it unless people are looking for someone who again meets their qualifications.
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#5
#5
hattiebod said:
Mmmmm. Interesting. What I think about when reading what you have written, is 'does it matter?' And I do not mean that disrespectfully :) I just mean, we are told He will return and so He will. John tells us the Bible we have is but the tip of the iceberg compared to all we could read and understand about God...but we have enough. We will not know all until we are with Him. I think He will return in the air, I think it will be magnificent...words cannot describe it :) but just because He does arrive on His white stallion, surrounded by His army, does not actually mean everyone will believe He is who He is. In the OT there are many instances where God was present, showing miracles, His power, yet their was rebellion and unbelief. He actually talked to the Israelites and then when Moses is up the mountain, they went feral :) rejected Gods authority and were totally disobedient, yet not long before they were in fear of their lives and begged Moses to talk to God, as they would die if they did! So, I think, as we are told, there will be much confusion, false teaching, false prophets etc. Satan recognises the existence of God...but rejects His authority. There are many that have done that and will continue to do so. Those who truly are saved and know the Lord, will recognise Him. Just as the thief on the cross recognised Christ...there will be no mistaking Him. Its just a mind boggling....truly exciting thing to think about....God Bless. <><
Click to expand...
Jesus also said that His sheep (believers)will know his voice.
 
L

_lost_words_

Guest
#6
#6
hattiebod said:
Mmmmm. Interesting. What I think about when reading what you have written, is 'does it matter?' And I do not mean that disrespectfully :) I just mean, we are told He will return and so He will. John tells us the Bible we have is but the tip of the iceberg compared to all we could read and understand about God...but we have enough. We will not know all until we are with Him. I think He will return in the air, I think it will be magnificent...words cannot describe it :) but just because He does arrive on His white stallion, surrounded by His army, does not actually mean everyone will believe He is who He is. In the OT there are many instances where God was present, showing miracles, His power, yet their was rebellion and unbelief. He actually talked to the Israelites and then when Moses is up the mountain, they went feral :) rejected Gods authority and were totally disobedient, yet not long before they were in fear of their lives and begged Moses to talk to God, as they would die if they did! So, I think, as we are told, there will be much confusion, false teaching, false prophets etc. Satan recognises the existence of God...but rejects His authority. There are many that have done that and will continue to do so. Those who truly are saved and know the Lord, will recognise Him. Just as the thief on the cross recognised Christ...there will be no mistaking Him. Its just a mind boggling....truly exciting thing to think about....God Bless. <><
Click to expand...
" Does it matter?"

You do realize that those who believed in God and read the Bible in Jesus Christ time didn't recognize their Savior right? Meaning they weren't saved.

If Christ is coming a second time to do God's salvation work, if you cannot recognize him because it " does not matter,"

How can you confirm that you will be saved? Surely God would let his people know of him when he comes right?

But then the Bible says not everyone who proclaims God is God's people.

I think people like to take the easy way out of this God thing, by creating this illusion that God has no law, or no regulations in getting his people.

We can accurately say that the Disciples were God's people? Why? Because according to the Bible, they believed, had faith, followed God's commands, and adhered to Christ's teachings.

Oh, and out of all the people who didn't accept Jesus, they recognized their Christ.

That is what set them apart from all the other believers as God's people; they recognized their Christ.

So really now, does't it matter?

Because if it doesn't, then God was unfair in not saving those who did not recognize Christ.
 
L

_lost_words_

Guest
#7
#7
Anonimous said:
Their not recognizing him was because if they had read what the prophets said they would have understood. They were expecting a mighty king that would save them from the Romans. This was not what was promised. Jesus did not meet "their" qualifications of what "they" wanted.

This is the same way it could happen again. Except this time it will be a false messiah that they WILL accept. The world is ripe for anyone who will be able to solve all the problems. When Jesus returns there will be no mistaking it unless people are looking for someone who again meets their qualifications.
Click to expand...
You have no idea how right this is. Seriously, I got a little Holy Spirit from reading this.

How do you know this? It is wisely spoken.

Many false ones have appeared already; the main false messiah has not exposed himself yet, but it's happening slowly and surely.

Pray a lot, because the time of his 2nd Coming has come upon us.
 
L

_lost_words_

Guest
#8
#8
Anonimous said:
Jesus also said that His sheep (believers)will know his voice.
Click to expand...
Amen.

I wrote this forum to deliver a message that has been given to me. If you hear, please pray.

What people are looking for commonly as far as 2nd Coming, is a deceptive ideology that is fuming from the already poisoned Christian concepts; the truth of God got corrupted over the years, and only the Christ can bring it back.

Oooh I have much to say, but I cannot disclose anymore.

Father if it be your will...
 
A

Anonimous

Guest
#9
#9
_lost_words_ said:
You have no idea how right this is. Seriously, I got a little Holy Spirit from reading this.

How do you know this? It is wisely spoken.

Many false ones have appeared already; the main false messiah has not exposed himself yet, but it's happening slowly and surely.

Pray a lot, because the time of his 2nd Coming has come upon us.
Click to expand...
I was not implying that Jesus was here yet. But, when he does arrive there will be no doubt. Not to the believer or UNbeliever. This is why he warned us that many false prophets would come in the last days. He will not arrive in an SUV or need to broadcast himself on TV. It will be in the clouds from east to west.
 
H

hattiebod

Guest
#10
#10
Does it matter?"

You do realize that those who believed in God and read the Bible in Jesus Christ time didn't recognize their Savior right? Meaning they weren't saved.

Many did, many did not...same as now. There was no Bible in 'Jesus time' there was the Hebrew scriptures, the Pentateuch.

If Christ is coming a second time to do God's salvation work, if you cannot recognize him because it " does not matter,"
Christ is returning, it does matter. I am sorry if I was not clear in what I wrote. What I meant was, the semantics of how & when He actually arrives does not matter to me, although I do believe He will return 'in the air' as told in the Word. I focus on the fact He will return and what I am meant to be doing. I do not get bogged down in the details. My choice.

How can you confirm that you will be saved? Surely God would let his people know of him when he comes right?
I am saved not through my confirmation, not through anything I have done at all. i am saved because I believe in Jesus Christ and His blood shed for me, that I am redeemed, saved & forgiven by my repentance and acknowledgement of my Lord Jesus Christ. Because He told me this in the Word.

But then the Bible says not everyone who proclaims God is God's people.
This is true, many will declare their salvation but for many reasons they are building their salvation on an unsure foundation. The only sure foundation is Christ crucified. Even the angels will be unable to tell who is saved and who is not...but, a clue is in their 'fruit'.

I think people like to take the easy way out of this God thing, by creating this illusion that God has no law, or no regulations in getting his people.
We are saved by Christ, not by following laws. It is all about what He has done for us, not what we can do.We are no longer under the law. Christ came to free us from the law.

We can accurately say that the Disciples were God's people? Why? Because according to the Bible, they believed, had faith, followed God's commands, and adhered to Christ's teachings.
They believed Christ was the Son of God. faith was given to them, we are given faith from God. We all have it...just what we choose to put it in is the question! Many do not manage to adhere so well to the teachings, they struggle more on their walk...are they less loved ? less forgiven? less saved? I do not believe so. 'He died for such as these'. Yes, we are called to obedience but it is not necessary to be obedient, to be saved. We are a work in progress. Once we have Christ in us, a new life is born and we begin to change, some faster than others! :)

Oh, and out of all the people who didn't accept Jesus, they recognized their Christ.
Not sure this is true...there was only one 'thief' on the cross who acknowledged Jesus, the other 2 ridiculed Him. Pontius Pilate recognised Jesus was 'special' but the Messiah...? His wife certainly did not.

That is what set them apart from all the other believers as God's people; they recognized their Christ.
For me there needs to be 'born again'. believer does not really work as it suggests a belief in the person.I do not know of anyone who believes Christ is the Son of God and then rejects him....Judas? some debate about that :)

So really now, does't it matter?
As I have explained, i hope, I was saying there is a danger we get tied up in knots over semantics, for me, Christ will return in the air. When? do not know. In my lifetime? do not know. What I do know is that I have work to do right now. Getting the Good News out there.
Because if it doesn't, then God was unfair in not saving those who did not recognize Christ.
Unless we accept the Son, we do not know God. Unless we are born again, we are destined for hell not heaven. God tells us this. This is the important bit for me :) I know where I am going and I want as many folks to hear the gospel, so they can choose to come too :) God Bless <><
 
S

spacefreak

Guest
#11
#11
Jesus is coming again, we don't know the time but he is coming, it explains it all in revelations
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#12
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#12
spacefreak said:
Jesus is coming again, we don't know the time but he is coming, it explains it all in revelations
Click to expand...
That is the point! It explained it all in scripture when Christ came the first time and men absolutely knew they read all about it and understood. We must beware of doing the same, of knowing we understand without keeping our mind and heart open to God in whatever is happening. We are told, too, that many will be misled. It is up to us to wrap ourselves in the entire word so we wrap ourselves in it so completely we will understand. Not just prophecy, but the entire word. Like drawing the armor of God around us.
 
T

ThomasLady

Guest
#13
#13
I published a book In which, after much searching, reading, and thinking, I tell a story of the Next Coming. You can get an overview at The Our Father, Version 3 - Home.
But generally speaking, people raised Christian like me, were rarely taught the truth, that the original founders of Christianity were scientists and philosophers, and Christianity won so many converts because the underlying philosophy made the most sense to us mortals stuck in Earth. Now we just hope for miracles, visions and descending spirits. We need to be turned back towards our roots by reading the writings of the founders, such as the Confessions of St. Augustine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.