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To Christians:
For anyone who saw my longer post above, and did not understand, I'll clarify.
1. The word "defeated" is not actually used in scripture.
2. However, from context, in the Bible, we can say that Satan is CURRENTLY "defeated."
3. However, also from context, we can ONLY SAY that Satan is CURRENTLY defeated in CERTAIN WAYS and CERTAIN SENSES, and not in EVERY WAY and EVERY SENSE.
There are some senses in which he is currently defeated, and some senses in which he is not currently defeated.
Meaning: there are some things he cannot do, but there are still some things, currently, which he can do.
4. This is EASILY understood from context, and from even a cursory read of the Bible.
5. The problem comes in when the OP tries to engage in the fallacy of EQUIVOCATION... and act as if the word "defeat" must refer to EVERY POSSIBLE SENSE of the word.
The OP then uses this fallacy of equivocation to try and find contradictions which don't exist.
This technique is OFTEN used by atheists.
Simply pick a word, misapply it, and pretend there are contradictions.
This is not good logic.
This is not good English.
This is certainly not good Bible.
Easy peasy.
For anyone who saw my longer post above, and did not understand, I'll clarify.
1. The word "defeated" is not actually used in scripture.
2. However, from context, in the Bible, we can say that Satan is CURRENTLY "defeated."
3. However, also from context, we can ONLY SAY that Satan is CURRENTLY defeated in CERTAIN WAYS and CERTAIN SENSES, and not in EVERY WAY and EVERY SENSE.
There are some senses in which he is currently defeated, and some senses in which he is not currently defeated.
Meaning: there are some things he cannot do, but there are still some things, currently, which he can do.
4. This is EASILY understood from context, and from even a cursory read of the Bible.
5. The problem comes in when the OP tries to engage in the fallacy of EQUIVOCATION... and act as if the word "defeat" must refer to EVERY POSSIBLE SENSE of the word.
The OP then uses this fallacy of equivocation to try and find contradictions which don't exist.
This technique is OFTEN used by atheists.
Simply pick a word, misapply it, and pretend there are contradictions.
This is not good logic.
This is not good English.
This is certainly not good Bible.
Easy peasy.
Ok having read through the thread i think i need to add some more definition to my answer..
satan is already defeated.. In the eternal sence... Meaning satan is now doomed to be cast into the eternal lake of fire upon the day of judgement, God by His demonstration of Love through the Atonement of Jesus has defeated the satan lead rebellion against the ultimate Authority of God..
BUT... Satan still has a limited freedom of action in regard to this world and a portion of people within it.. satan can decieve and lead people in this world who are not believers in the LORD Jesus Christ, satan and his demons can influence the thoughts and actions of most of the worlds population.. So satan is totally defeated as far as it concerns a Holy Spirit indwelled Jesus believing Christian.. But for an unbeliever at the current time satan is not defeated but can influance and lead that unbeliever in a variety of ways ( within the limits set by God)..
But as i said on the eternal scale of things when Jesus suffered death on the cross and was raised from the dead on the third day satan was defeated from that moment.. satan is now just a curse upon those who are heading for the same eternal destination he is headed for...
satan is already defeated.. In the eternal sence... Meaning satan is now doomed to be cast into the eternal lake of fire upon the day of judgement, God by His demonstration of Love through the Atonement of Jesus has defeated the satan lead rebellion against the ultimate Authority of God..
BUT... Satan still has a limited freedom of action in regard to this world and a portion of people within it.. satan can decieve and lead people in this world who are not believers in the LORD Jesus Christ, satan and his demons can influence the thoughts and actions of most of the worlds population.. So satan is totally defeated as far as it concerns a Holy Spirit indwelled Jesus believing Christian.. But for an unbeliever at the current time satan is not defeated but can influance and lead that unbeliever in a variety of ways ( within the limits set by God)..
But as i said on the eternal scale of things when Jesus suffered death on the cross and was raised from the dead on the third day satan was defeated from that moment.. satan is now just a curse upon those who are heading for the same eternal destination he is headed for...
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[h=3][/h]Revelation 12:9-12
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
Satan knows what is going to happen to him, and in his wrath he is going to bring as many of us as he can with him.
In his own violent anger, he seeks to destroy us, through deception and temptation, all in order to lead us to become enemies of the Creator.
He knows where he is going, and hes going to make sure you go, too. He is not your friend, he is a friend to no one.
And all of this is being allowed in order to gather those who will trust in Him and follow Him, and those who will mock Him and do what is pleasing to them. And in the end, satan will be cast into the pit, along with the angels who followed him, and we will be gathered before God and divided between the wheat and the weeds.
A Christian shouldnt "fear" satan, but they should be well aware and vigilant of what he is doing, and how he is working in our world.
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
Satan knows what is going to happen to him, and in his wrath he is going to bring as many of us as he can with him.
In his own violent anger, he seeks to destroy us, through deception and temptation, all in order to lead us to become enemies of the Creator.
He knows where he is going, and hes going to make sure you go, too. He is not your friend, he is a friend to no one.
And all of this is being allowed in order to gather those who will trust in Him and follow Him, and those who will mock Him and do what is pleasing to them. And in the end, satan will be cast into the pit, along with the angels who followed him, and we will be gathered before God and divided between the wheat and the weeds.
A Christian shouldnt "fear" satan, but they should be well aware and vigilant of what he is doing, and how he is working in our world.
The best way to cast out a fear is to show your perfect love to another people as Jesus did Let take a look in KJV1John4;17-20 17. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as he is, so are we in this World. 18. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear; because fear hath torment, He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19. We love him, because he first loved us.20. If man say,I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar;for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? ;
A simple concept!... Its as God has Satan on a leash . Just as one would keep a bad dog on a leash limiting its ability to do harm. God holds the leash on Satan. Thus limiting what harm and destruction Satan can do in this world for now. In the future! The Bible tells us Jesus will defeat Satan. Basically!..In Jesus time of choosing. He will put the Bad dog Satan down. For their is no good in him.
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M
"my people perish for their lack of knowledge"
Satan is called the "great accuser". He knows every word of the bible, when he finds a believer in rebellion against God either through sin, disbelief, or lack of faith we give authority to the enemy to attack us.
We can be forgiven through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ if we repent. When we are forgiven the authority of Satan is revoked.
But the enemy will then try to attack our faith, telling us the lie that we are not truly forgiven by bringing up our past sins to our memory or spreading doubt because if the enemy can cause us to lack faith in God, he then again receives authority to attack the believer.
Many Christians struggle in faith and the enemy keeps them in bondage, when we believe we are forgiven and do not let the enemy steal our faith in Gods promise the enemy has no authority in us. Satan could be compared to a lawyer to constantly looks for ways Christians void a contract and thus have cause to attack you. For some it is a deep struggle to forgive themselves of their past actions, but they are forgiven.
It began when the serpent tempted Eve. We received the knowledge of good and evil but were unable to follow it, thus condemning us. I believe this is evident in our sense of moral right and wrongs which are similar despite a persons origins, yet our inability to follow our own sense of right and wrong. Everyone knows lying is wrong, yet everyone has lied at one point in their life, despite having no physical incapability to not lie.
Death has always been the penalty for sin, for rebellion against God. Yet did God leave us to our own condemnation? No, He had a rescue plan and it involved a perfect sinless sacrifice to take our place in death. Jesus took our place in death that we could be forgiven, God is a loving merciful God who does not receive joy in any man being lost. Men cannot pay their own debt of sin to God by their own good works. Its like if your father was also a Judge, He hears your case and judges you guilty but He knows your are broke so He then takes off the judges robe and pays the fine for you so you do not have to go to prison, never being able to pay your own bail. All you have to do is accept it.
The Bible is not animal worship or worshiping the elements. It is not Islam's Quran who was only written by one author, Muhammad himself, and yet not a single miracle was claimed to be performed by him. Neither is it Buddhism or Hinduism which believe in countless separate Gods.
The Bible was written by 40 total authors over the span of 1500 years. These have been shown to be very accurate in their description of historical events, the names and lineages of kings, the locations of cities, the descriptions of buildings and temples, as well as accurate accounts the cultures of each period. All this seamlessly melded with eyewitness accounts of Gods miracles, promises and fulfillment of prophecies.
Their are over 4000 laws for transcribing one Torah scroll to another, over forty animal skins are used and it takes about a year to complete one copy.
The New Testament was written by the apostles of Jesus who being the first to make the claim of Jesus suffered horrible persecution along with the early church for this belief. They were beaten, imprisoned, mocked, and hunted down for their testimony. The apostles were crucified, skinned alive and boiled alive and all but one of the twelve apostles died a horrible death. Some were of very high in stature before converting and instead chose lives of poverty and persecution they believed so strongly.
The idea that the apostles did not see Jesus resurrected or perform miracles, and the early church did not see the apostles perform miracles yet still suffered all this persecution because they "decided to make it up" does not hold water. Christianity is the only religion where those that saw its conception and witnessed it with their own eyes were so heavily tested in their faith and did not break.
Even the big bang had a start, no one can explain this but I believe God exists outside of our linear concept of time. If He created all the universe then why couldn't He also have created time for us as well?
Besides this their have been miracles in my own life, answers to prayers, supernatural protection from danger. Twice I was saved supernaturally. Once by being pushed out of the way of danger and eye witnesses saying no one was around me when i was pushed, another time I was dragged from the water by two men. One was a dear friend of mine but the other one who held my right arm, no one else saw except me. I saw a spirit in my room when I was a young man just as clearly as I could have seen a person standing in front of me when I first became a Christian.
If we cannot join God in eternity we must be separated from God, If God is the source of love and peace and joy then what would eternal separation from God look and feel like? I do not plan to find out. In the same way light cannot mix with darkness, God does not mix with rebellion from God.
God does not create suffering or evil on the earth in the same way Light does not create Darkness and Hot does not create Cold. These things are caused by the separation from God caused by our own rebellion from Him.
If you would like to be forgiven of your sins and thus know you will rejoin God after your death it only takes faith in asking Jesus to be the Lord and Savior of your life, asking Him for forgiveness of your sins and repenting of them.
Faith means you must believe in Him and his ability to forgive you and that you are in fact forgiven, and repentance imply s gilt and a desire to turn from those things God has said must separate us from Him.
I implore you it is the most important decision any of us will ever make in this life. I pray that through these words the Lord may yet convict you to turn back to Him and receive salvation through Jesus, the son and perfect sacrifice that He sent us that we may not perish but have eternal life in Him.
Satan is called the "great accuser". He knows every word of the bible, when he finds a believer in rebellion against God either through sin, disbelief, or lack of faith we give authority to the enemy to attack us.
We can be forgiven through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ if we repent. When we are forgiven the authority of Satan is revoked.
But the enemy will then try to attack our faith, telling us the lie that we are not truly forgiven by bringing up our past sins to our memory or spreading doubt because if the enemy can cause us to lack faith in God, he then again receives authority to attack the believer.
Many Christians struggle in faith and the enemy keeps them in bondage, when we believe we are forgiven and do not let the enemy steal our faith in Gods promise the enemy has no authority in us. Satan could be compared to a lawyer to constantly looks for ways Christians void a contract and thus have cause to attack you. For some it is a deep struggle to forgive themselves of their past actions, but they are forgiven.
It began when the serpent tempted Eve. We received the knowledge of good and evil but were unable to follow it, thus condemning us. I believe this is evident in our sense of moral right and wrongs which are similar despite a persons origins, yet our inability to follow our own sense of right and wrong. Everyone knows lying is wrong, yet everyone has lied at one point in their life, despite having no physical incapability to not lie.
Death has always been the penalty for sin, for rebellion against God. Yet did God leave us to our own condemnation? No, He had a rescue plan and it involved a perfect sinless sacrifice to take our place in death. Jesus took our place in death that we could be forgiven, God is a loving merciful God who does not receive joy in any man being lost. Men cannot pay their own debt of sin to God by their own good works. Its like if your father was also a Judge, He hears your case and judges you guilty but He knows your are broke so He then takes off the judges robe and pays the fine for you so you do not have to go to prison, never being able to pay your own bail. All you have to do is accept it.
The Bible is not animal worship or worshiping the elements. It is not Islam's Quran who was only written by one author, Muhammad himself, and yet not a single miracle was claimed to be performed by him. Neither is it Buddhism or Hinduism which believe in countless separate Gods.
The Bible was written by 40 total authors over the span of 1500 years. These have been shown to be very accurate in their description of historical events, the names and lineages of kings, the locations of cities, the descriptions of buildings and temples, as well as accurate accounts the cultures of each period. All this seamlessly melded with eyewitness accounts of Gods miracles, promises and fulfillment of prophecies.
Their are over 4000 laws for transcribing one Torah scroll to another, over forty animal skins are used and it takes about a year to complete one copy.
The New Testament was written by the apostles of Jesus who being the first to make the claim of Jesus suffered horrible persecution along with the early church for this belief. They were beaten, imprisoned, mocked, and hunted down for their testimony. The apostles were crucified, skinned alive and boiled alive and all but one of the twelve apostles died a horrible death. Some were of very high in stature before converting and instead chose lives of poverty and persecution they believed so strongly.
The idea that the apostles did not see Jesus resurrected or perform miracles, and the early church did not see the apostles perform miracles yet still suffered all this persecution because they "decided to make it up" does not hold water. Christianity is the only religion where those that saw its conception and witnessed it with their own eyes were so heavily tested in their faith and did not break.
Even the big bang had a start, no one can explain this but I believe God exists outside of our linear concept of time. If He created all the universe then why couldn't He also have created time for us as well?
Besides this their have been miracles in my own life, answers to prayers, supernatural protection from danger. Twice I was saved supernaturally. Once by being pushed out of the way of danger and eye witnesses saying no one was around me when i was pushed, another time I was dragged from the water by two men. One was a dear friend of mine but the other one who held my right arm, no one else saw except me. I saw a spirit in my room when I was a young man just as clearly as I could have seen a person standing in front of me when I first became a Christian.
If we cannot join God in eternity we must be separated from God, If God is the source of love and peace and joy then what would eternal separation from God look and feel like? I do not plan to find out. In the same way light cannot mix with darkness, God does not mix with rebellion from God.
God does not create suffering or evil on the earth in the same way Light does not create Darkness and Hot does not create Cold. These things are caused by the separation from God caused by our own rebellion from Him.
If you would like to be forgiven of your sins and thus know you will rejoin God after your death it only takes faith in asking Jesus to be the Lord and Savior of your life, asking Him for forgiveness of your sins and repenting of them.
Faith means you must believe in Him and his ability to forgive you and that you are in fact forgiven, and repentance imply s gilt and a desire to turn from those things God has said must separate us from Him.
I implore you it is the most important decision any of us will ever make in this life. I pray that through these words the Lord may yet convict you to turn back to Him and receive salvation through Jesus, the son and perfect sacrifice that He sent us that we may not perish but have eternal life in Him.