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Feb 7, 2015
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#41
To be honest man I don't know what our punishment was going to be exactly, nor did I claim to or give any suggestions on what it would be, but if you think our sin didn't separate us from God then you are confused brother. Even more than that if Jesus didn't take that punishment on the cross for you then you're in more confusion and trouble than you think. Look I see you're twice my age, I understand that, and I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but you're just DEAD wrong man. The only way the cross makes any sense, the only way Gods perfect love and infinite justice can come together, is when He put OUR judgment on Jesus that day, and when we accept and submit to Him, He fills us and makes us all NEW and reveals Himself to us. It honestly blows my mind that I can be on a Christian site debating these truths, and I'm not just going to sit here and go back and forth banging my head against a wall with you, but brother I love you and you are in some dangerous deception here. I understand it sounds nicer and more reasonable from a worldly perspective, but it's WRONG.
It's not just that I'm older. I lived, for decades, repeating the exact same things you are now going through. Exactly, word for word. And then I kept right on dutifully saying them for decades more. Until I read the Bible. NOT as a book to use to locate the "proof" verses I had been told to memorize, but to see what words were actually in there.... without my preconceived expectations.

Of course I had read the Bible previously. Several times. At age 8, I was the tops of ALL the kids in Sunday School (including teens) at our Bible Sword Drills. And years later, I went through more Bible teaching than a lot of people can even imagine in the CoC. And all of it just strengthened and solidified the same thinking you are now learning. Please don't be so naïve as to think that I didn't "know" all those "truths" that that you were told to believe. But, then, I read the Bible.

Not, "Here's a truth, and this verse "proves" it... but, the Bible as it is actually written.

I asked you to do something very simple. But, you haven't done it, have you? No, of course you haven't. And you don't intend to. Why? Because you actually think you already "know." And until God moves you to want to know what He said instead of what you were told to believe, you never will. And that is fine. But, you would think that you would want to be able to show others where the Bible said "the wages of sin are anything more than 'death'." Trouble is, you will be shocked when you can't find it,

Punishment? The Bible doesn't say we were to be tortured. That came on Jesus because He chose to actually "BECOME" sin, in order to complete His mission of destroying the work of the Devil. (None of us has ever become sin.) What is "the work of the Devil?" In one word, it is "sin". And by becoming "sin" Jesus took "sin" with Him when He paid our debt of DEATH. (Death is ALL that the Bible says we owe.) He died, and "sin" died right along with Him. Went right down into the grave with Him.... and was left there, for all Eternity, when He arose. Do you recall the words, "He conquered death?" It is referred to in the Bible as "The Last Enemy."
 
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KennethC

Guest
#42
Yeah, I figured that would come from you. This is no solicitation. It's about a total loss for Jeff. I was just trying to give us a chance to get this from Amazon for almost nothing, before the revision comes out and the price soars again. It's about the same thing as me telling you where a gas station is now selling gas for a dollar a gallon.
Whenever you are pushing others to buy and advertising a book for sell that is soliciting !!!
 
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KennethC

Guest
#43
If yours was the correct meaning of that verse, then since we are all sinners, God would have never heard any of us, and we would all remain unsaved.
That is not true and misunderstanding.........

God did not send His Son Jesus to die on the cross because He heard our prayers, He did that because He loves us !!!

The scriptures clearly say we did nothing and were undeserving when God this for us, and the ministry of preaching the good news is called by Paul in 2 Corinthians 5 the ministry of reconciliation.

Reconciled means to be restored, why do we need to be restored if we are not separated ???

Because as Paul showed in Romans 8 sins (carnal actions of the flesh) cause us to be enmity to God, and that carnal lifestyle leads to death not life !!!
 
I

Is

Guest
#44
To be honest man I don't know what our punishment was going to be exactly, nor did I claim to or give any suggestions on what it would be, but if you think our sin didn't separate us from God then you are confused brother. Even more than that if Jesus didn't take that punishment on the cross for you then you're in more confusion and trouble than you think. Look I see you're twice my age, I understand that, and I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but you're just DEAD wrong man. The only way the cross makes any sense, the only way Gods perfect love and infinite justice can come together, is when He put OUR judgment on Jesus that day, and when we accept and submit to Him, He fills us and makes us all NEW and reveals Himself to us. It honestly blows my mind that I can be on a Christian site debating these truths, and I'm not just going to sit here and go back and forth banging my head against a wall with you, but brother I love you and you are in some dangerous deception here. I understand it sounds nicer and more reasonable from a worldly perspective, but it's WRONG.
I understand it sounds nicer and more reasonable from a worldly perspective
Absolutely. It's heartbreaking to think that Jesus being perfect and having never sinned had to cry out on the cross, "Father why have you forsaken me?" or that He even had to go to the cross in the first place to die for wretched sinners.

God is love because Scripture says He loved us first, but to think that God isn't perfect justice also is dangerous, it's what the carnal mind wants to believe.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#45
Luke 12 clearly shows that there will be different amounts of punishment handed out at judgment !!!

The reason for the different amounts shown there is based on how sinful the person was, if Jesus did not die on the cross for us and take our punishment we would be in one of those categories mentioned in Luke 12:45-48 !!!
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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#46
Luke 12 clearly shows that there will be different amounts of punishment handed out at judgment !!!

The reason for the different amounts shown there is based on how sinful the person was, if Jesus did not die on the cross for us and take our punishment we would be in one of those categories mentioned in Luke 12:45-48 !!!
The biggest mystery to me is why He would do that for someone like me, (as I'm the only one I know well enough to KNOW I didn't deserve it) but man oh man do I praise His mighty name that He did. Love on a level I can't comprehend, and it truly blows my mind and breaks my heart this is even debatable on a Christian site. I just don't get it, well I do and it makes me sad.
 
I

Is

Guest
#47
The biggest mystery to me is why He would do that for someone like me, (as I'm the only one I know well enough to KNOW I didn't deserve it) but man oh man do I praise His mighty name that He did. Love on a level I can't comprehend, and it truly blows my mind and breaks my heart this is even debatable on a Christian site. I just don't get it, well I do and it makes me sad.
It's hard to understand perfect love.
 
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KennethC

Guest
#48
The biggest mystery to me is why He would do that for someone like me, (as I'm the only one I know well enough to KNOW I didn't deserve it) but man oh man do I praise His mighty name that He did. Love on a level I can't comprehend, and it truly blows my mind and breaks my heart this is even debatable on a Christian site. I just don't get it, well I do and it makes me sad.
Yes it always amazes me how things clearly stated in the Word of God gets debated !!!

There is over 30+ scriptures in the Word of God from the OT to throughout the NT about restoration !!!

What Jesus did on the cross was take our punishment we rightfully deserved for being sinful, and giving us a way to be restored to God through His blood from His sacrifice !!!

Without His precious blood covering and washing our sins away we would not find a place for us in heaven !!!