As I mentioned it was Jesus who stated that the NT message of salvation would begin in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) And that is what happened on the Day of Pentecost in Jerusalem when Peter provided instructions for all to obey. Peter said the promise was for all who the Lord God would call. (Acts 2:38-39) The requirement of obedience is still in effect since mankind continues to be called to repentance.
"If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his..."
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Who instructed Paul to lay hands on them to receive the Holy Ghost? Who instructed Peter and John to lay hands on them? This wasn't done by instruction, it simply happened while they were praying for them to receive the Holy Ghost.
When we've prayed for people to receive the Holy Ghost (and they do receive it) it's not because we felt commanded to do so. We were just following what we see in the word, and God confirms his word with signs following. It's not rocket-science (so to speak) It's just stepping out in faith in prayer. Why does it seem such a mystery to you that it still works?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
When we've prayed for people to receive the Holy Ghost (and they do receive it) it's not because we felt commanded to do so. We were just following what we see in the word, and God confirms his word with signs following. It's not rocket-science (so to speak) It's just stepping out in faith in prayer. Why does it seem such a mystery to you that it still works?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Out of the 29 conversion accounts why are you selecting ' hands ' ? Some decide on ' baptism ' ,or ' repentance ' or ' tongues ' . Others try combine all of them for that ' full turbo extra strong mint Gospel. But its strange because you know whats the majority out of the 29 ? Believe. Why don't you pick acts 8 with the Ethiopian? Or maybe Acts 16.30 with the Jailer ? I find it odd how selective certain denominations are on particular ' proof texts ' ?
FYI, you are the one who misquoted the idea that the HOLY GHOST came at laying on of hands by suggesting SALVATION came at laying on of hands. That wasn't me. I never said "Salvation comes at laying on of hands." But I HAVE seen the HOLY GHOST come at laying on of hands. That's what I stated. It is incorrect to assume that salvation is given through laying on of hands. But the bible records that the Holy Ghost sometimes comes that way.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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This thread is about clearly understanding whether or not a person has received the Holy Ghost. So the scriptures that are focused on are those where it is shown what happens when someone receives the Holy Ghost. The play-by-play accounts.
You're welcome to derive whatever doctrines you'd like from the gospels and/or the epistles... but what the Holy Ghost actually is like when you receive it, is documented in those play-by-play accounts. God put them in there on purpose... so people can learn therefrom. You are supposed to check what you've been taught against the biblical accounts. If you received (or claim to have received) something that doesn't line up with the recorded accounts, you're pretty much supposed to start questioning the accounts given by your leaders, not discounting the accounts given by God.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
You're welcome to derive whatever doctrines you'd like from the gospels and/or the epistles... but what the Holy Ghost actually is like when you receive it, is documented in those play-by-play accounts. God put them in there on purpose... so people can learn therefrom. You are supposed to check what you've been taught against the biblical accounts. If you received (or claim to have received) something that doesn't line up with the recorded accounts, you're pretty much supposed to start questioning the accounts given by your leaders, not discounting the accounts given by God.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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I overlooked this portion of your post in my first reply.
I didn't pick the Ethopian in Acts 8 because it doesn't state at what time he received the Holy Ghost. If you ASSUME he received it at belief or baptism, then you missed a major point of the earlier part of the chapter. The Samaritans had both believed AND been baptized (correctly) and had NOT YET received the Holy Ghost. The apostles at Jerusalem were wise enough NOT to make that assumption and sent Peter and John to go pray for them so they COULD receive it. IT IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC THING AT BELIEF.
Philip was likely learning to do the part God sent him to do (preach and baptize) and trust God to get the Holy Ghost to the individual in due time, because that part is between the individual and God Philip is not essential to that part. Perhaps Philip would have thought to much of himself if God did it all through his hands.
As for the Jailer,... again no details as to exactly what happened or exactly when he received the Holy Ghost.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I didn't pick the Ethopian in Acts 8 because it doesn't state at what time he received the Holy Ghost. If you ASSUME he received it at belief or baptism, then you missed a major point of the earlier part of the chapter. The Samaritans had both believed AND been baptized (correctly) and had NOT YET received the Holy Ghost. The apostles at Jerusalem were wise enough NOT to make that assumption and sent Peter and John to go pray for them so they COULD receive it. IT IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC THING AT BELIEF.
Philip was likely learning to do the part God sent him to do (preach and baptize) and trust God to get the Holy Ghost to the individual in due time, because that part is between the individual and God Philip is not essential to that part. Perhaps Philip would have thought to much of himself if God did it all through his hands.
As for the Jailer,... again no details as to exactly what happened or exactly when he received the Holy Ghost.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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It doesn't get any clearer than this in Eph 1
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
May I remind you of Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." The Jailer ask what must I do to be saved ? " Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Then read the same person who explains how we receive the Holy spirit in Eph 1
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Paul was addressing those who had already heard and obeyed the instructions given in conjunction with Jesus' sacrifice. (Acts 2:38-40)
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
This isn't in reply to any particular posting on this or any other thread, but...
I now know why some say that the clearly recorded outpourings of the Holy Ghost (in Acts) are exceptions instead of trust-able examples. It's because when they have a flawed understanding of what is to be expected when the Holy Ghost arrives, and they compare their expectations against the biblical accounts, they find that EACH and every one of the accounts in Acts is an exception to their doctrine...because the truth refuses to line up with false doctrine.
That's not worded as clearly as what was put in my heart, but I'm sure you understand the point.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I now know why some say that the clearly recorded outpourings of the Holy Ghost (in Acts) are exceptions instead of trust-able examples. It's because when they have a flawed understanding of what is to be expected when the Holy Ghost arrives, and they compare their expectations against the biblical accounts, they find that EACH and every one of the accounts in Acts is an exception to their doctrine...because the truth refuses to line up with false doctrine.
That's not worded as clearly as what was put in my heart, but I'm sure you understand the point.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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L
every time you are in conflict with scripture, you tell the person who illustrated your error in their post, that they do not understand you
every
single
time
it's a thin excuse to be sure, but you have made it a running gag in these forums
people here need to remember that you refute the book of Acts as contributing to any doctrine
so, since that is your stance, you continue to deny the events as possibly continuing
that, is your loss. it is just a real shame you wish to drag others into that misconception
every
single
time
it's a thin excuse to be sure, but you have made it a running gag in these forums
people here need to remember that you refute the book of Acts as contributing to any doctrine
so, since that is your stance, you continue to deny the events as possibly continuing
that, is your loss. it is just a real shame you wish to drag others into that misconception
So are you saying that ONLY those who have been water baptized using the specific formula "in Jesus name" have experienced the new birth and that the new birth is a direct result of being water baptized? Do you believe that those who truly repent and believe the gospel, but were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (as Jesus specifically stated in Matthew 28:19) have not experienced the new birth?