"What the [great] commission...

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GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,991
1,417
113
Midwest
#1
...does and DOES NOT say...

...“Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose soever sins ye
remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever
sins ye retain, they are retained” (Vers. 22,23).​

In other words, in sending them forth, the Lord breathed on them,
imparting the Holy Spirit and divine authority to remit...sins.

Bewildered Protestants have found it difficult to accept this part of the
“great commission,” and in general have vainly tried to explain it away...

...A consideration of what the commission to the eleven DOES NOT say is,
perhaps, a greater eyeopener than a consideration of what it does say.

Unless the author’s experience in this matter is entirely unique, it may greatly
surprise many of our readers to note that the so-called “great commission”:

Does not even contain the word “Grace,” or refer to “the Gospel of the Grace
of God.”

Does not mention “the preaching of the cross.”

Does not mention salvation through the blood of Christ, much less by faith
in His shed blood.

Does not mention Christ’s death as the payment for sin, or His all-sufficient
work of redemption as the basis for salvation.

Does not offer salvation as the gift of God, apart from works.

Does not offer salvation apart from the law of Moses.

Does not mention salvation by faith alone, apart from the law or works.

Does not associate Christ’s death and resurrection with our justification.

Does not state that there is “no difference” between Jew and Gentile;
in fact, it does the opposite by giving Israel priority.

Does not contain one word about the Body of Christ, or about our Divine
Baptism into Christ and His Body.

Does not contain one word about a heavenly position and prospect, or
“all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ.”

Under the so-called “great commission,” then, we would not be preaching
any of the above. And when we realize that all this is the very theme of
Paul’s God-given message, and ours, does it not become irresistibly evident
that there has been a change in dispensation...
"
(CR Stam)

FULL study:
What The Great Commission Does and DOES NOT Say

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,685
1,920
113
#2
"The Great Commission" doesn't show up in a search in any of the 15 translations I refer to.

Interesting article, by the way.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,952
2,878
113
#3
...does and DOES NOT say...

...“Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose soever sins ye
remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever
sins ye retain, they are retained” (Vers. 22,23).​

In other words, in sending them forth, the Lord breathed on them,
imparting the Holy Spirit and divine authority to remit...sins.

Bewildered Protestants have found it difficult to accept this part of the
“great commission,” and in general have vainly tried to explain it away...

...A consideration of what the commission to the eleven DOES NOT say is,
perhaps, a greater eyeopener than a consideration of what it does say.

Unless the author’s experience in this matter is entirely unique, it may greatly
surprise many of our readers to note that the so-called “great commission”:

Does not even contain the word “Grace,” or refer to “the Gospel of the Grace
of God.”

Does not mention “the preaching of the cross.”

Does not mention salvation through the blood of Christ, much less by faith
in His shed blood.

Does not mention Christ’s death as the payment for sin, or His all-sufficient
work of redemption as the basis for salvation.

Does not offer salvation as the gift of God, apart from works.

Does not offer salvation apart from the law of Moses.

Does not mention salvation by faith alone, apart from the law or works.

Does not associate Christ’s death and resurrection with our justification.

Does not state that there is “no difference” between Jew and Gentile;
in fact, it does the opposite by giving Israel priority.

Does not contain one word about the Body of Christ, or about our Divine
Baptism into Christ and His Body.

Does not contain one word about a heavenly position and prospect, or
“all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ.”

Under the so-called “great commission,” then, we would not be preaching
any of the above. And when we realize that all this is the very theme of
Paul’s God-given message, and ours, does it not become irresistibly evident
that there has been a change in dispensation...
"
(CR Stam)

FULL study:
What The Great Commission Does and DOES NOT Say

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...
It depends on what you mean by the Great Commission. That term does not appear in God's word. The last instructions of the Lord Jesus were to preach the gospel (of the Kingdom of God, not just personal salvation) and make disciples (not just converts). It includes teaching the disciples what Jesus taught the apostles.

It's obvious that it was not just for the Jews. The gospel was to be preached to all nations, not just Israel. This was prior to the dispersion. The gospel was to be preached to the whole world, not just Israel.

I'm not at all bewildered. I'm Protestant. By studying the word as revealed by the Holy Spirit, the truth is made evident. I've had a lot of help from many anointed teachers. For example, I know the difference between the authority to forgive given to the apostles and the forgiveness that is only due to the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus as He shed His precious blood.

I do not understand your last paragraph.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,952
2,878
113
#4
It depends on what you mean by the Great Commission. That term does not appear in God's word. The last instructions of the Lord Jesus were to preach the gospel (of the Kingdom of God, not just personal salvation) and make disciples (not just converts). It includes teaching the disciples what Jesus taught the apostles.

It's obvious that it was not just for the Jews. The gospel was to be preached to all nations, not just Israel. This was prior to the dispersion. The gospel was to be preached to the whole world, not just Israel.

I'm not at all bewildered. I'm Protestant. By studying the word as revealed by the Holy Spirit, the truth is made evident. I've had a lot of help from many anointed teachers. For example, I know the difference between the authority to forgive given to the apostles and the forgiveness that is only due to the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus as He shed His precious blood.

I do not understand your last paragraph.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,876
839
113
#5
I do not understand your last paragraph.
it's nonsense anyway.

The Apostles taught the entire Gospel by the Holy Ghost. Everything Jesus taught them about himself and the gospel, they knew before Paul.

Beginning with John, the Gospel was of Grace.
From His fullness we have all received grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

It absolutely did contain the "preaching of the cross" and salvation by it.
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

Does mention salvation through the blood of Christ
This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you.

It 100% did offer salvation by faith without the Law. Also says there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.

5But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” 6So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.
7After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.
10Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”


Paul also went to Jews first
but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

It also did associate the sacrifice of Jesus with our sins because Philip was preaching Isaiah 53.

Does mention our divine baptism. Which is also referred to as a gift of God.
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The fact that the church was the body of christ from it's inception is given away here.

while the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.

“Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
That Paul was the one to use the term "body of christ" is not really significant. Different terms can bring the same understanding.

Does mention our heavenly position, prospects, and spiritual blessings.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you. 15Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.



Paulianity wrong on every point.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#7
...does and DOES NOT say...

...“Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose soever sins ye
remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever
sins ye retain, they are retained” (Vers. 22,23).​

In other words, in sending them forth, the Lord breathed on them,
imparting the Holy Spirit and divine authority to remit...sins.

Bewildered Protestants have found it difficult to accept this part of the
“great commission,” and in general have vainly tried to explain it away...

...A consideration of what the commission to the eleven DOES NOT say is,
perhaps, a greater eyeopener than a consideration of what it does say.

Unless the author’s experience in this matter is entirely unique, it may greatly
surprise many of our readers to note that the so-called “great commission”:

Does not even contain the word “Grace,” or refer to “the Gospel of the Grace
of God.”

Does not mention “the preaching of the cross.”

Does not mention salvation through the blood of Christ, much less by faith
in His shed blood.

Does not mention Christ’s death as the payment for sin, or His all-sufficient
work of redemption as the basis for salvation.

Does not offer salvation as the gift of God, apart from works.

Does not offer salvation apart from the law of Moses.

Does not mention salvation by faith alone, apart from the law or works.

Does not associate Christ’s death and resurrection with our justification.

Does not state that there is “no difference” between Jew and Gentile;
in fact, it does the opposite by giving Israel priority.

Does not contain one word about the Body of Christ, or about our Divine
Baptism into Christ and His Body.

Does not contain one word about a heavenly position and prospect, or
“all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ.”

Under the so-called “great commission,” then, we would not be preaching
any of the above. And when we realize that all this is the very theme of
Paul’s God-given message, and ours, does it not become irresistibly evident
that there has been a change in dispensation...
"
(CR Stam)

FULL study:
What The Great Commission Does and DOES NOT Say

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...
You started out good and trailed off at the end. I have no idea what your driving at now. Would you mind clarifying?
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
1,151
441
83
#8
it's nonsense anyway.

The Apostles taught the entire Gospel by the Holy Ghost. Everything Jesus taught them about himself and the gospel, they knew before Paul.

Beginning with John, the Gospel was of Grace.
From His fullness we have all received grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

It absolutely did contain the "preaching of the cross" and salvation by it.
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

Does mention salvation through the blood of Christ
This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you.

It 100% did offer salvation by faith without the Law. Also says there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.
5But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” 6So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.
7After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.
10Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”


Paul also went to Jews first
but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

It also did associate the sacrifice of Jesus with our sins because Philip was preaching Isaiah 53.

Does mention our divine baptism. Which is also referred to as a gift of God.
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The fact that the church was the body of christ from it's inception is given away here.

while the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.

“Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
That Paul was the one to use the term "body of christ" is not really significant. Different terms can bring the same understanding.

Does mention our heavenly position, prospects, and spiritual blessings.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you. 15Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.


Paulianity wrong on every point.
Did santaclause throw up on your keyboard?
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,010
2,568
113
London
christianchat.com
#10
...does and DOES NOT say...

...“Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose soever sins ye
remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever
sins ye retain, they are retained” (Vers. 22,23).​

In other words, in sending them forth, the Lord breathed on them,
imparting the Holy Spirit and divine authority to remit...sins.

Bewildered Protestants have found it difficult to accept this part of the
“great commission,” and in general have vainly tried to explain it away...

...A consideration of what the commission to the eleven DOES NOT say is,
perhaps, a greater eyeopener than a consideration of what it does say.

Unless the author’s experience in this matter is entirely unique, it may greatly
surprise many of our readers to note that the so-called “great commission”:

Does not even contain the word “Grace,” or refer to “the Gospel of the Grace
of God.”

Does not mention “the preaching of the cross.”

Does not mention salvation through the blood of Christ, much less by faith
in His shed blood.

Does not mention Christ’s death as the payment for sin, or His all-sufficient
work of redemption as the basis for salvation.

Does not offer salvation as the gift of God, apart from works.

Does not offer salvation apart from the law of Moses.

Does not mention salvation by faith alone, apart from the law or works.

Does not associate Christ’s death and resurrection with our justification.

Does not state that there is “no difference” between Jew and Gentile;
in fact, it does the opposite by giving Israel priority.

Does not contain one word about the Body of Christ, or about our Divine
Baptism into Christ and His Body.

Does not contain one word about a heavenly position and prospect, or
“all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ.”

Under the so-called “great commission,” then, we would not be preaching
any of the above. And when we realize that all this is the very theme of
Paul’s God-given message, and ours, does it not become irresistibly evident
that there has been a change in dispensation...
"
(CR Stam)

FULL study:
What The Great Commission Does and DOES NOT Say

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...
The way of salvation was changed at the cross, it's application or dispensation was not fully understood by the apostles and prophets until Paul schooled them in it as shown at Antioch when Paul withstood Peter and the matter was taken to the whole church in Jerusalem. At that conference it seemed good to the church and to the Holy Ghost that Paul's understanding was correct.
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
2,991
1,417
113
Midwest
#12
op: the "great commission"?
What most denominations believe are their "marching orders," and
thus they "so-call" [label] it their "great commission" - do they obey
ALL of it?:

1) Christ Commanded, under Law: "sell ALL, and follow Me" - Which "law-
keepers" practice this today? And what would be the consequences of
obeying a Command From A Previous Dispensation (1Ti 1:7)?

Under Grace, God Is Clear:

1Ti_5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially
for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and
is worse than an infidel."

2) Christ Commanded: "...OBSERVE ALL I Have Commanded you..."
(Mat 28:20); He Clearly Commanded "OBSERVE Moses law" (Mat 23:1-3)!

Thus, how Exactly did the "Dispensation Of GRACE" Commence
immediately "after The Cross" (@Evmur)? How many years did the
thousands of "Jewish believers" obey (to the letter) Christ their Messiah?:

Act 21:20 "And when they heard it, they glorified The​
Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many​
thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are
ALL zealous of the law:"

Thus, we believe God's Change in Dispensations, beginning with Paul
And his New And Different Message and ministry, From Christ in Heaven,
For us, The Body Of Christ. Paul [ONE] apostle, is our pattern (1Ti 1:16),
in God's Mystery/GRACE Program!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Other Context of prophecy/law, From Christ on earth, to the
Twelves tribes of Israel through His Twelve apostles!
----------------------------------------------
All comments are welcome, but please first review/peruse the entire:

(clarification for @Dirtman?) FULL study:
What The Great Commission Does and DOES NOT Say

Grace, Peace, And JOY...
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,010
2,568
113
London
christianchat.com
#13
op: the "great commission"?
What most denominations believe are their "marching orders," and
thus they "so-call" [label] it their "great commission" - do they obey
ALL of it?:

1) Christ Commanded, under Law: "sell ALL, and follow Me" - Which "law-
keepers" practice this today? And what would be the consequences of
obeying a Command From A Previous Dispensation (1Ti 1:7)?

Under Grace, God Is Clear:

1Ti_5:8 "But if any provide not for his own, and specially
for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and
is worse than an infidel."

2) Christ Commanded: "...OBSERVE ALL I Have Commanded you..."
(Mat 28:20); He Clearly Commanded "OBSERVE Moses law" (Mat 23:1-3)!

Thus, how Exactly did the "Dispensation Of GRACE" Commence
immediately "after The Cross" (@Evmur)? How many years did the
thousands of "Jewish believers" obey (to the letter) Christ their Messiah?:

Act 21:20 "And when they heard it, they glorified The​
Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many​
thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are
ALL zealous of the law:"

Thus, we believe God's Change in Dispensations, beginning with Paul
And his New And Different Message and ministry, From Christ in Heaven,
For us, The Body Of Christ. Paul [ONE] apostle, is our pattern (1Ti 1:16),
in God's Mystery/GRACE Program!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

God's Other Context of prophecy/law, From Christ on earth, to the
Twelves tribes of Israel through His Twelve apostles!
----------------------------------------------
All comments are welcome, but please first review/peruse the entire:

(clarification for @Dirtman?) FULL study:
What The Great Commission Does and DOES NOT Say

Grace, Peace, And JOY...
Peter, if you carefully read his answers to Paul's arguments totally concedes that Cornelius [Stam :cool:] and the other Gentiles had been saved without the law exactly as they themselves had been, received the same Holy Spirit baptism with speaking in tongues and prophesying. He acknowledged his mistake.

The Jews were zealous for the law, even our Lord Jesus, even Paul were zealous for the law. But the Gentiles were never at any time given the law. The change came at the cross but only Paul understood. He corrected the mistake.

But nobody matches Paul for the grace teaching. It is right to claim him as our apostle.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,952
2,878
113
#14
it's nonsense anyway.

The Apostles taught the entire Gospel by the Holy Ghost. Everything Jesus taught them about himself and the gospel, they knew before Paul.

Beginning with John, the Gospel was of Grace.
From His fullness we have all received grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

It absolutely did contain the "preaching of the cross" and salvation by it.
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

Does mention salvation through the blood of Christ
This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you.

It 100% did offer salvation by faith without the Law. Also says there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.
5But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” 6So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.
7After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.
10Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”


Paul also went to Jews first
but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

It also did associate the sacrifice of Jesus with our sins because Philip was preaching Isaiah 53.

Does mention our divine baptism. Which is also referred to as a gift of God.
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The fact that the church was the body of christ from it's inception is given away here.

while the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.

“Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
That Paul was the one to use the term "body of christ" is not really significant. Different terms can bring the same understanding.

Does mention our heavenly position, prospects, and spiritual blessings.
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you. 15Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.


Paulianity wrong on every point.
You reject all Paul's teachings? Everything he wrote and taught was before the gospels were written. Peter could have rebuked Paul as a false teacher, but he did the opposite. James and John could have warned about Paul. They did not.

You can believe what you like, but that does not make you right.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,248
6,541
113
#15
Paulianity wrong on every point.[/QUOTE]

? This line I do not understand, please let me know. The post is so good, right from the Master.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,322
26,350
113
#16
2) Christ Commanded: "...OBSERVE ALL I Have Commanded you..."
(Mat 28:20); He Clearly Commanded "OBSERVE Moses law" (Mat 23:1-3)!

Thus, how Exactly did the "Dispensation Of GRACE" Commence
immediately "after The Cross" (@Evmur)? How many years did the
thousands of "Jewish believers" obey (to the letter) Christ their Messiah?
Acts 15:6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and
addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles
might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that
he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between
us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the
necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No!
We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”


:)
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,876
839
113
#17
You reject all Paul's teachings? Everything he wrote and taught was before the gospels were written. Peter could have rebuked Paul as a false teacher, but he did the opposite. James and John could have warned about Paul. They did not.

You can believe what you like, but that does not make you right.
I have no idea how you got that I reject Paul's teachings, since he taught the same doctrine as the Apostles and Jesus.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,876
839
113
#18
Paulianity wrong on every point.

? This line I do not understand, please let me know. The post is so good, right from the Master.
"Paulianity" is my nickname for Grace Ambassadors' doctrine that Paul ushered in a new dispensation. Paul taught the same as the apostles.
 

timf

New member
Jul 7, 2022
16
11
3
#19
Jesus was describing to his disciples what would be expected of the in the kingdom. Israel was always supposed to have been a nation of priests. These verses are similar to Matthew 16. A more correct translation captures the verb tense so that instead of being given new powers, they are being restricted to what has always been declared.

"Whatever you bind shall be bound" is better translated "Whatever you bind shall have already been bound"

An example of this can be seen in the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 where James declares that the restrictions of gentile believers be only the restrictions on gentile sojourners from the Old Testament.

Nothing Jesus said or did was contrary to the expectation that the nation would receive the new covenant and the kingdom.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
1,876
839
113
#20
Those Jews that were "zealous for the law" were so, because Israel hadn't been stamped out, and the priesthood/temple/sanhedrin still had local power. Not because the new dispensation had't come yet. They were following the law of the land.

It even says in that same chapter that Paul was accused of teaching the end of jewish laws and customs, but also that the accusation wasn't true. He never said that Jews had to stop circumcizing their boys and forsake doing what is in the law- what he DID teach was that none of it had any salvation value- because the New Covenant was effective and the old not. He told GENTILES not to get circumcized with reference to the Judaizers- because the Judaizers were conflating the old with the new and trying to get the Gentiles not only to become Christian, but to become Jewish-Christians, which was not required. Even the OC didnt even require gentiles to become Jewish to be saved (but they couldn't go farther than the court of the Gentiles at the temple).

The confusing part is that Jesus taught the law, because the law wouldnt pass until it was fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled it. Not long after Peter has a dream telling him not to call what God has cleansed "unclean" while showing him unclean animals. "KILL AND EAT"- because the OC was annulled. So yes, some of what Jesus taught was OC, but he also taught that there was going to be a NC, and that the law wasn't part of it. The stuff he taught during the law, like baptism/ the lords supper were an introduction to the NC- and then his feachings were continued by the twelve, and then by Paul.

Today's "messianic jews" are similar
In that they voluntarily keep jewish customs sithout tying them to justification or sanctification.
(although as N6 has pointed out several times, there are some messianic Jews that take it too far and are dangerously more Jew than messianic.)