Broken Addictions

I believe that in the Christian life our determination must be to trust Christ. It is not that I don't understand where you are coming from, but a Christian is entitled to say that he lives by faith and not his own effort.

Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law or believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After begining with the Spirt are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Gal3:3

My cousin is an alcoholic, but has not drank for nearly three years, so I would say that it is by his effort and will he has abstained.

For the Christian it certainly does appear that his own will, determination and effort contribute to his victory as a Christian. But I do believe that in the Christian walk it is only by faith in Christ and the Holy Spirits power in us that we succeed. So in effect it is not us.

Personally I believe if wee sincerely want to be a Christian and are willing to be changed then God's way and power are sufficient for the rest. But this obviously does not mean we sit in a chair with our feet up waiting for God to act. But it is God's power and faith in Christ that are responsible for the victories in our lives. We can take no credit at all.

I really don't understand, and I know I am probably going to open a huge can of worms here, but...

How is it if we are not saved and accomplish something great we get all the credit (like staying sober three years)

but

If we are saved and accomplish the same thing, we get no credit (like staying sober three years)

I understand what you mean about giving God all the credit, and it is noble and seems like the right thing to do as a Christian, but it still makes absolutely no sense.

Opening a can of worms can make for stimulating concversation lol

I know it seems unfair doesn't it? The non-christian cannot give God credit or expect God to help him at all obviously

I have read a book by Charles Spurgeon. He says that the new Christian should constantly remember Rom5:6
At just the right time when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly

He says we are justified by faith in Christ, and sanctified by faith in Christ as well through the Spirits power. A person without strength is not expected to change themselves. He gave examples of this. People consumed by lust could not themselves be free of such thoughts. Others could hardly set their minds to follow the correct path in many other ways. He said our job is to fix our eyes on Christ and trust him, like a limpet clinging to a rock. That is the way to see the victory.

I am not belittling people standing firm with Christ, we have to use what God gives us, but many try in themselves, sincerely yes. But to me we have to use the effort we are given to trust Jesus.

Without going into it too deeply.

If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed I prove that I am a lawbreaker. Gal217&18

To me when we become Christians it is evident we are sinners, I don't believe we can wave a magic wand and loose all our deep rooted sin overnight. But the key to me is. Why does Paul say. Does Christ promote sin? If we by our own effort were determining to rid ourselves of such sin, surely he would not have needed to say that. But if to Paul our job is to trust Christ and rejoice in our salvation rather than try to rid ourselves of the sin I could then well understand why he would ask such a question
I believe the final verse confirms that. Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed I prove that I am a lawbreaker. In other words if I make a concerted effort in myself to free myself of my sin I will fail.

This all depends obviously on a sincere conversion and someone wanting in their heart to be with God through Christ. Many times Paul said it is only the power of the Holy Spirit in us that can change us.
Jesus said. Apart from me you cannot do a thing.

I do believe God demands the whole glory. Paul said.
The life I live now I live by faith in the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. To me by reading his letters his own effort got him nowhere, only trusting in Christ by the spirits power did.

Where then is boasting? it is excluded. On what principal? On that of observing the law? No but on that of faith Rom3:27

Spurgreon also said. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. If part of the process, is really down to us and our own strength the chain will break

Here is my point though... Sin is fun. It is designed to be pleasurable because why else would we turn away from assured salvation? As an example, I would love to pop open a six pack of beer, light up a joint, kick back and have wild marathon sex. I won't lie...it's fun. However I choose not to do that because my intentions are to turn away from that life and live a life according to the will of God and to be holy and acceptable to Him.

At any moment, right this moment... I could choose to do all those things, but I don't, because I am trying to live a good life. I DO NOT however boast that I am walking this path on my own. I can only take so many steps forward, but He can take me all the way. And when I am weak, if I will only allow Him, he will make me strong. This I do believe!

Think we are on the same page; just a little off key. I mean, I agreed with everything you just said; it's probably just hard to gather what I meant from that one line. I don't feel we are being responsible Christians if we just freeload off of God every time we have a problem; we should aim to correct ourselves as much as possible and God will be there to keep us from falling backwards if we stumble.

I do see where you are coming from. Sin is fun, yes, but at my age the wild marathon sex would be too much, but I know what you mean about alcohol.
There is an allure in sin. This is why without sidetracking this discussion I passionately believe people have to see what the Apostle Paul said caused that in him

I am 51, for so much of my life I tried to live a good life for God. Always it was the same. For a while success, then I fell and slipped back. Because always I was focusing and determining not to give in to my personal weakness.
A woman said on another Christian site that it was only when she took her eyes off the wrong things she did and looked to Jesus and trusted him that she found the victory over them

Some of us are more naturally weak than others, this is true. I can only say for myself that only when I take my eyes off my weaknesses to sin and live by faith in Jesus and look to him can I come close to him and have permanant victory in my life.

I hope you be4lieve me I am praying for you, and I am sure you will come right through your trials. But honestly I could never determine to avoid wrongs myself in myself and succeed permenantly, that for me would be impossible.

When you choose not to do something, do you think it is you choosing not to? Or the Holy Spirit in you who is helping you change?

I could probably sum that up rather quickly actually. I see one of the principles of Christianity is that we keep our humility in check. We can do great things; but, we shouldn't let our success go to our heads. If we take full credit for everything we accomplish then we assume we did it all without any help from God and what a slap on the face that would be.

Even if someone isn't saved God is there. Trust me on that...

I don't think we are that far away from agreeing either. Thanks for your reply

I did make the decision to change, and probably for very carnal and selfish reasons. But once I made those first few steps, He has definately exceeded all I could have hoped for. I know now that I could never do this alone. He will be the one to carry me through and give me stregnth to stay the course! I do give Him all the glory for where I am now, because without His grace, of which I was undeserving, I would be lost.

I wouldn't say we really disagree at all, but we all see things slightly differently. I have often heard it said that as long as we agree on the core belief of Christ's death on the cross for our sins that should unire us

Don't feel bad for coming to Jesus for selfish reasons, don't we all? But you know, without wishing to start an argument I like to think it was the Holy Spirit working in you to bring you back because God loves you so much

well umm yea.... sorry forgot what i was going to say.............

You know... you just might be right!

Sin isn't fun, at all. That's a lie that the devil has perpetrated. We don't sin because it's fun, we sin because our hearts desire sin. What we need is salvation from sin, which is a circumcised heart that loves God as we ought. Then loving God becomes fun.

Deuteronomy 30:6 (King James Version)
6And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

What you are doing ShelleBelle is you are trying in your own strength to obey God. You will never succeed because your heart will continually lead you to the sin that it loves.

Rom 7:

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

The solution is to believe God for His promises, and act as though they are true. But before you can do this, you must repent of trusting in your own works to save you. Then your faith and love for God will grow, and you will take hold of His promises and you will feel a cleansing change in your heart. From that point forward your heart will be directed to God's commandments and the fruits of the Spirit will exist in you.

Ezek 36:
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

You must be saved by faith alone, not your efforts.

31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Quest

According to your faith, be it unto you.

You can accomplish many things in your life that you can take credit for if you so desire (other than the fact God made you capable of accomplishing those things). But, there is not one thing that you can accomplish, that will make you acceptable to God. God's acceptance of you is by His grace alone.

20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Quest

Occasionally I copy comments to my computer. I will definately copy these last two of yours. They speak of the heart of victory in the Christian life and are very well put, thank you for them I so love the verses you quoted. It is amazing to me that a former strict Pharisee would write them. What a miracle God did in the Apostle Paul. And Amazing Grace for us!

Maybe this can help some of you, I pray it do. You see the Word say that God show mercy to the just as well as the unjust,
see when I was in the streets, and I gang bang, I'm talking about Chicago west-side project streets, I sold drugs, and I can say that I do praise God for sparing my life... you see we don't know God does not mean he is not helping us. the devil sure don't give a darn if you die in your sins, so why? would he do anything for us... just because we don't thank God does not mean he didn't so it.
and I tell the truth none was of any of my efforts... when I was almost gang raped, who step in and changed the mind of one man to chang the mind of them all, when I was nine ears old and almost raped in a dark stairwell, play with friends, as a man put a knife up to my neck and I held the blade of it while I screamed for help and not even a scratch on my fingers, tell me who was that... when I was told years later by some men that was in the opposite gang I was in; that they wanted to kill me but they could never catch me or find me... but I was always in the same place every day, please tell me who brought confusion to them,, I sure didn't, who would help me hold on to a blade of a knife without getting cut, the man could have knocked me out and did what he wanted to do; I was only nine, and weighed about 60lbs. if that much lol ( I was very very skinny) so if God stopped a man who is not saved " YET " does not mean because that man didn't say thank you Lord, don't mean God didn't do it. you see I never said thank you to God then because I did not know him to tell him. But when I did get saved I knew that it could not had been no one else but the Lord to have protected me.... to save me for such a time as this,,, one of the other things I know God did , I was five months preg. with my son and me and his dad had left the house eariler than we used to, when we got outside, I suddenly got a strong craving for orange juice, we was going to the store, but he turn around and said he will wait for me by some of his friemds... less then five minutes later he was dead from a drive by shooting. you see the Lord was tring to spare the both of us that morning.. but he turned around. you see I have hundreds of testamonies to the Lord before and after I got saved I know no man not even myself could have done what God has done for me.... all I had to do is tell God that I acknowledge my wrong and I repent of it, and I ask God to take it away from me, sometimes I have to get a little chestizing because God been of took something and I go back to it, it is God who gives us the desire to want to stop something in the first place, then he gives us the ability to stop, and he give us the discuss that we never want to do it again. but there was somethings God just stop me; just like that and I never go back to it. see must understand that we in our flesh do things only because we LIKE IT, and for some things we stop doing, WE STILL LIKED IT, because it made us feel good.. so we know it have to or had to be ALL GOD.

Sorry Scotty, don't mean to take over your amazing testimony, PRAISE BE TO GOD, HALLELUJAH TO OUR GOD WHO DELIVER US OUT OF ALL OUR DISTRESSES, your testimony gave me and my husband chilllsss, it touched us deep in our spirit, exspecilly my husband for he had that same internet promblem... I think it encouraged him a lot. the devil really been messing with him.. even after a year of freedom. the enemy comes to try him. he fell once, BUT GOD, Hallelujah. spoiled the enemies plan. although my husband tried to see the porn, the system got messed up so he could not see nothing but the title.... Glory be to God. and then the Lord the same day allowed me to see what my husband tried to do... and we talked and we prayed about and when he is tempted he come to me and we pray. it's been a while now that he has not been tempted of the devil to do this thing. and I know after reading your testimony and the stirring of the Holy Spirit ( the chill he got in his body) and mine. has encouraged him so much more. as I said to you before you are "VICTORIOUS" and you keep giving God all the Glory and he will keep on blessing you.

Love form your sister in Christ, and the peace of God rein in your heart forever.

This is amazing Scotty. I know from experience how hard it is to break an addiction. I went through some stuff too and I was already a Christian. It all started when I isolated myself and thought I was too holy lol. I laugh about how silly it is now. But I did go through that. God is so good. So, so great. It's been a month since I've been totally set free from my past addictions. And for the last 10 years of my Christian life, the last 30 days have been the most amazing journey. I did bad stuff, but no regrets anymore because God made it all turn out for my good. God is great.