I got saved tonight, and last night, and the night before, and last weekend

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swizzlesticka

Guest
#1
Salvation is a day to day walk thing, and honestly I get saved again just about every time I go to church, so that's at least three times a week. Yes, this is the segway into some more videos from World Revival Church. I know some people don't like these, but they are here to build your faith. God is not dead, He is a live and powerful. If I am wrong I'd like to know two things: 1. Who changed my life tonight? and 2. Where is His grave so I can go pay homage to the most powerful, glorious, gracious mighty, conquering, empowering rescuing being ever. I 'd like to drop some flowers off at least, because I loved Him dearly.

Anyways, in these videos there is a woman who got deliverd of lesbianism, a young lady who says she is getting "chiseled into a sculpture" every time she visits, a young pastors son who has found unexplainable joy after years of being in church and hearing voices, and a woman suffering from cancer who came to church in a wheelchair and left walking on a Saturday and walked up on stage the next morning to give her testimony. Please enjoy and may all your doubts dissipate! These are real and made possible only by the hand of God! (Yes, the first fifteen seconds of the first and last one are the same)

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kJP8wpinXU[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyEge_HWfrY[/video]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3YuUB3pp3I[/video]
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
1,435
20
38
#2
Greetings,

I want to provide those who read this thread with an alternative viewpoint on this 'Revival' that is said to be happening at World Revival Church.

This video compares the particular manifestations that are occurring at World Revival Church, with manifestations that occur in other religions such as Hinduism. The author also pleads with viewers from her own experience - as well as from scripture - to attempt to prove that this 'Revival' is not Biblical:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7VlxMFXioE[/video]

Here is an interesting comment that someone gave on this video at YouTube:

Now make know Mistake about it, I trained in the Eastern Culture, as a child. I have master several forms of martial arts, all reflecting the philosophy of Chi and Buddhism! For you to bad mouth this, and call it demonic is an insult to a people and a culture that is far older than Judeao Christianity!
 
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H

HumbleSaint

Guest
#3
Salvation is a day to day walk thing, and honestly I get saved again just about every time I go to church, so that's at least three times a week. Yes, this is the segway into some more videos from World Revival Church. I know some people don't like these, but they are here to build your faith. God is not dead, He is a live and powerful. If I am wrong I'd like to know two things: 1. Who changed my life tonight? and 2. Where is His grave so I can go pay homage to the most powerful, glorious, gracious mighty, conquering, empowering rescuing being ever. I 'd like to drop some flowers off at least, because I loved Him dearly.

Anyways, in these videos there is a woman who got deliverd of lesbianism, a young lady who says she is getting "chiseled into a sculpture" every time she visits, a young pastors son who has found unexplainable joy after years of being in church and hearing voices, and a woman suffering from cancer who came to church in a wheelchair and left walking on a Saturday and walked up on stage the next morning to give her testimony. Please enjoy and may all your doubts dissipate! These are real and made possible only by the hand of God! (Yes, the first fifteen seconds of the first and last one are the same)



I don't think you can keep getting saved and then lost and then saved and then lost. The Bible says that if any man be in Christ he is a new creature, former things are passed away behold all things become new.


The Bible says There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all and through all, and in you all. Ephesisans 4:4-6

Was Christ crucifed more than once? No and the Bible says I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. If we are crucifed with Christ and Christ was only crucified once, then are we not also. And if we are indeed born again and be in Christ; Will we not walk as he walked. Good works will not save but being regenerated through faith in Jesus Christ alone will. Through this you are made a new creature who brings forth good works, but not of your own, it is Christ working in you.

How can you be sure you have realy been born again and made a new creature?

If ye know that He is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness in born of him. 1 John 2:29

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth nor righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.1 John 3:7-10

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. 3 John 1:11
 
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swizzlesticka

Guest
#4
You are taking me too literally. That's the short of it. I'm not going to split hairs with you, and it's not worth the scripture fight that would ensue since it would only bring division. I simply mean that I get renewed constantly at church. Things in me that make me fall short of the glory of God get pulled out of me and I am a better, cleaner, happier person every time I leave church.

In the same way that Paul died to himself daily, God meets me with his mercies new every morning. To me this is Salvation. Saving me from my enemies for His work. Salvation is a daily walk.
 
S

swizzlesticka

Guest
#5
Greetings,

I want to provide those who read this thread with an alternative viewpoint on this 'Revival' that is said to be happening at World Revival Church.

This video compares the particular manifestations that are occurring at World Revival Church, with manifestations that occur in other religions such as Hinduism. The author also pleads with viewers from her own experience - as well as from scripture - to attempt to prove that this 'Revival' is not Biblical:


I really don't even know where to begin. I guess the first thing that I can say is that the man who got "lifted off the ground a million times in the video is MY DAD. This video is misguided, misinformed and ridiculously speculative from the words and viewpoints of someone who saw A VIDEO (as far as I can tell only a a section of one) and has never stepped foot into WRC. She has never met the people or seen the most real fruit of the church. People, who have SUFFERED for YEARS in dead churches (pastors, pastors' kids, congregation members) come looking for life and they find it. The people are happy, loving, welcoming, and CONSUMED with passion for God. What you see is a church full of people desperate for God, not "pulled by some evil force", but instead ELECTING by their own voliton to RUN to the help God has provided.

Maybe some of the manifestations seem odd, but when you are overwhelmed, what can you do? Shaking and trembling are in the Bible, being undone is in the Bible, healing is in the Bible. No other book, no other viewpoint, no other concern is preached in this church except glorifying God. We don't aim to make ourselves comfortable or please our flesh. We want GOD, YHWH, Yeshua, Jesus, the LORD, Ruah Adona (the breath of God AKA the Holy Spirit)i, to be present in our church. The word of God is preached to change us, and to challenge us. This is a church willing to meet four days a week, for hours on end, so that we can be changed into the image of our Lord Jesus Christ who has rescued us from dead religion. I promise you that if it was not for this ministry at this church I would be fiercely forsaking God this very moment.

If all you need is one critic, one simple, opinionated, ignorant (not in a name calling way, but in a way to bring that she has not truly investigated any of her claims beyond one video) skeptic to deny that something is of God, then you would yourself have belted out "Crucify Him!" when Jesus was on trial. I invited you to come and see for yourself, instead of listen to speculation. Meet the people here and listen to their testimonies. We have no other option besides revival.
 
S

Servantofiam

Guest
#6
We are in the last days my friend. A time when God has given the power to perform signs and miracles to the evil one.
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Mar 13:22 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Jn 4:48 Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe."

2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

if you are genuinly seeking God you will find Him but if not genuine then you will not find Him, instead you will find WRC
I'm sorry but the production alone is the most un Christ like thing Ive seen. Do yourself a favor, if you can't picture our humble Lord being on stage making a big show then don't believe these people are from Him. I'm sorry buddy but it's just so blantantly obvious Christ does not approve of this whole production. And I'm being as nice as I possibly can about this. Benny Hin is loaded for goodness sakes, cmon bro don't fall asleep. How dare they portray the humility of Christ in such a way. Seriously
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
1,435
20
38
#7
I used to run after these kind of signs and miracles myself. If I lived in Kansas I would have been at this church everyday when I was younger. But thank God that He has brought me away from such things.

I have learned that God requires order in the church:
1 Cor 14:40
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
KJV


As well, it appears that women preach in this church, which is not Biblical:
1 Tim 2:12
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
KJV


We shouldn't have to attend a particular church to receive a work of God into our lives:
John 4:19-23
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
KJV


By encouraging people to come to this church from all over the world, the church makes itself a mediator between God and man:
1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
KJV


Jesus says that we are to go out and take the gospel message out to all nations, not invite the world to come to a central place like Jerusalem to find God:

Matt 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
KJV

servantofiam said:
I'm sorry but the production alone is the most un Christ like thing Ive seen. Do yourself a favor, if you can't picture our humble Lord being on stage making a big show then don't believe these people are from Him. I'm sorry buddy but it's just so blantantly obvious Christ does not approve of this whole production. And I'm being as nice as I possibly can about this. Benny Hin is loaded for goodness sakes, cmon bro don't fall asleep. How dare they portray the humility of Christ in such a way. Seriously
Excellent points! Jesus never, had people running around, flying in the air, and falling to the ground en masse, like they do in this church (unless they were demon filled). Our Lord demanded order.
 
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swizzlesticka

Guest
#8
We are in the last days my friend. A time when God has given the power to perform signs and miracles to the evil one.
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Mar 13:22 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Jn 4:48 Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe."

2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

if you are genuinly seeking God you will find Him but if not genuine then you will not find Him, instead you will find WRC
I'm sorry but the production alone is the most un Christ like thing Ive seen. Do yourself a favor, if you can't picture our humble Lord being on stage making a big show then don't believe these people are from Him. I'm sorry buddy but it's just so blantantly obvious Christ does not approve of this whole production. And I'm being as nice as I possibly can about this. Benny Hin is loaded for goodness sakes, cmon bro don't fall asleep. How dare they portray the humility of Christ in such a way. Seriously
I find that the skeptics of this sincere and truly humble, geniuine move of God, are the ones who strain out the gnats and swallow the camel. Are you mad about crowds? Are you mad about production? Are you mad about the fact that we have a pastor? What's your deal? LOOK AT THE FRUIT! People who are depressed and dying in the pews get revived and fall in Love with God. No other book but the Bible is preached and peoples' lives get better. How dare you blaspheme the Spirit! Jesus healed, so bby His power we heal. We glorify God, so Satan plays no part in the miracles when we bring Glory to the name of the LORD. I have been a part of this church from it's humble beginnings. We meet to pray to Him AS AN ENTIRE BODY on Thursday nights. We see the blessings of God according to Deuteronomy, because we are faithful, humble, devoted and moldable. Our dedication to God has brought us blessings from the hand of God. We have Joy, Peace, Prosperity, Wholeness. The word of God comes unadulterated from the pulpit, not to soothe our demons but to change us. Don't you dare say that this is a lie from the Devil, because sir, when the the Church looks like the world, the traditional way of doing things is WRONG and not in line with God.
 
S

Servantofiam

Guest
#9
The fruit of the Spirit is truth my friend, not miracles. By doing these works and signs you lessen faith and it is faith that saves us. Not faith in works. It is the last days my friend and I am perfectly obliged to point out scripture that states who is performing the miracles in the last days. You can heed the words of scripture or you can heed the works of man, it's up to you. Don't try and scare me by saying I'm blaspheming the Holy Spirit, I'm not a weak Christian, I know and obey my God. I'm not afraid to point out the truth, we are appointed to point out the truth and expose the lie. If it was free and they travelled to each and every house as worship to God healing His people, if they were humble and quiet, then you could present them as Christ like. Christ is not a production. If you want to be healed by God, GO TO GOD!! Not a tent in the middle of nowhere.
 
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swizzlesticka

Guest
#10
I used to run after these kind of signs and miracles myself. If I lived in Kansas I would have been at this church everyday when I was younger. But thank God that He has brought me away from such things.

I have learned that God requires order in the church:
1 Cor 14:40
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
KJV


As well, it appears that women preach in this church, which is not Biblical:
1 Tim 2:12
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
KJV


We shouldn't have to attend a particular church to receive a work of God into our lives:
John 4:19-23
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
KJV


By encouraging people to come to this church from all over the world, the church makes itself a mediator between God and man:
1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
KJV


Jesus says that we are to go out and take the gospel message out to all nations, not invite the world to come to a central place like Jerusalem to find God:

Matt 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
KJV



Excellent points! Jesus never, had people running around, flying in the air, and falling to the ground en masse, like they do in this church (unless they were demon filled). Our Lord demanded order.
I'm going to do my best to confront each issue one at a time, because you seem so intent on detracting Glory from the Risen Lord.
1. There is order in this church. It is not a free for all, which these highlight videos may not perfectly portray. These are aimed at showing the intensity, desperation and indignation for God's name that we hold. We are reverent as well as fervent. We have Elders, we have Deacons, we have Pastors. When it is worship time, we ALL worship. When it is prayer time, we all pray. When it is sermon time we all pay attention. All these things are done when God wants, but we are not bound by a schedule that man has set. We are well pastored and we all have jobs to do, which we are full aware of.

2. As for women, sir, you are taken out of context. That was a letter written when women were just becoming allowed in the church. They were ignorant, and would often yell out to their husbands whenever they were confused. Paul was trying to make their transition into the meetings smooth, so that the men would not resent them. If you want to contextualize it, don't let ignorant people preach or set doctrine. nor should anyone be disruptive, and we are very attentive of that.

3. I agree that we SHOULDN'T have to go to one place to find God. Look at the church though. Christians are some of the most oppressed, depressed, enbondaged (may not be a word, but it communicates better than 'bound' as I am writing it) people on Earth. Our intention is not to be THE Church to go to, but for this power of revival to be shared with all churches and the word of Reformation to spread like wildfire. That is why you will hear over and over that we invite pastors and leaders to come, so that their churches can be revived. This does happen, and we link arms with churches that are like-minded. Right now, this seems to be a hot spot, and we in the church are trained to make it continue, not in a free-for-all, hit and miss style. We want this to spread, but a cold candle must touch a lit candle to catch fire. Here is fire, so come and be lit. We don't even WANT to be the only church people can go to, but if people aren't getting helped in their church,we invite them to come.

4. Your fourth accusation is a LIE! Absolutely and straight forward. Wwe have never claimed this, and we have never directed anyone anywhere besides to Jesus. Jesus comes to help. Do your homework and visit the location yourself before you EVER, EVER, EVER make such an outrageous and egregious claim about any church, anywhere, of any denomination. Pastor Steve Gray is a humble man, who will himself say he was not God's first pick to do what he does. We know who are Lord is, where our help comes from, and under whose authority we do anything. We are careful, even hesitant to do some of the things that we do and say say what we say. This is a church with a humble pastor raising up humble men. We want to help people and that is our aim. If other churches were doing there job to heal all three facets of their congregation (Spirit, Soul, and Body) we wouldn't have so many broken people coming from everywhere, and we wouldn't continually extend the invitation to come and meet Jesus. We draw near to Him and He draws near to us. Period.

5. Your accusation that we do not go out is SINCERELY, SINCERELY underinformed, prejudiced, and misdirected. What you see is our church services. We invite people to come to our services, doesn't your church do the same? We send out missionaries. We have missionaries in Burma, Uganda, and Malaysia. Not to mention, our Pastor and teams from our church have traveled to other countries. Are you seriously critiquing us for having services in our church building and inviting ALL WHO NEED HELP from all over to come to them? You see small clips of our services, and now you are the expert on everything we do? Is that how powerful your anointing is? I must apologize for this good tree that produces good fruit, because the one section of branch that you have seen does not grow according to YOUR expectations.


I apologize for how harsh this may come across, but sir, in all respect, I have done a good thing to post testimonies to glorify the name of the Lord. For some reason though, I constantly have to apologize to fellow CHRISTIANS for the good I have done, because they despise how the manifestations LOOK. We judge ourselves and correct if we have done something wrong, according to the Bible, not the demons that haunt our church, as you seem to think (believe me, they hate it here). It is not your place to take away from God's glory because you disagree with the means by which God works. If you want to continually harass this work of God out of context, by all means, you aren't welcome.
 
K

KisDawn

Guest
#11
Being a lesbian isn't evil, what is evil is demonizing love between two consenting adults.
 
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QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
1,435
20
38
#12
1. There is order in this church. It is not a free for all, which these highlight videos may not perfectly portray. These are aimed at showing the intensity, desperation and indignation for God's name that we hold. We are reverent as well as fervent. We have Elders, we have Deacons, we have Pastors. When it is worship time, we ALL worship. When it is prayer time, we all pray. When it is sermon time we all pay attention. All these things are done when God wants, but we are not bound by a schedule that man has set. We are well pastored and we all have jobs to do, which we are full aware of.

The videos speak for themselves.

2. As for women, sir, you are taken out of context. That was a letter written when women were just becoming allowed in the church. They were ignorant, and would often yell out to their husbands whenever they were confused. Paul was trying to make their transition into the meetings smooth, so that the men would not resent them. If you want to contextualize it, don't let ignorant people preach or set doctrine. nor should anyone be disruptive, and we are very attentive of that.

It's amazing what justifications our modern churches come up with in order to allow what has traditionally been disallowed. I will leave the readers of this thread to judge for themselves if a godly church allows such things.

Geneva Study Bible:
But I suffer not a woman to teach, {8} nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(8) The first argument, why it is not lawful for women to teach in the congregation, because by this means they would be placed above men, for they would be their masters: and this is against God's ordinance.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary:
According to St. Paul, women are not allowed to be public teachers in the church; for teaching is an office of authority. But good women may and ought to teach their children at home the principles of true religion. Also, women must not think themselves excused from learning what is necessary to salvation, though they must not usurp authority.


3. I agree that we SHOULDN'T have to go to one place to find God. Look at the church though. Christians are some of the most oppressed, depressed, enbondaged (may not be a word, but it communicates better than 'bound' as I am writing it) people on Earth. Our intention is not to be THE Church to go to, but for this power of revival to be shared with all churches and the word of Reformation to spread like wildfire. That is why you will hear over and over that we invite pastors and leaders to come, so that their churches can be revived. This does happen, and we link arms with churches that are like-minded. Right now, this seems to be a hot spot, and we in the church are trained to make it continue, not in a free-for-all, hit and miss style. We want this to spread, but a cold candle must touch a lit candle to catch fire. Here is fire, so come and be lit. We don't even WANT to be the only church people can go to, but if people aren't getting helped in their church,we invite them to come.

A revival shouldn't need assistance to leave the confines of a building, or be exclusively tied to a building. I have never heard of such a thing in history as this, going on for over 10 years in a single church building. Why do you have to work so hard to take God's Revival Power to other churches? Is God not able to do it on His own? Truly, the entire city of Kansas should be about 60%-70% converted to Christ by now if this was a real revival.

4. Your fourth accusation is a LIE! Absolutely and straight forward. Wwe have never claimed this, and we have never directed anyone anywhere besides to Jesus. Jesus comes to help. Do your homework and visit the location yourself before you EVER, EVER, EVER make such an outrageous and egregious claim about any church, anywhere, of any denomination. Pastor Steve Gray is a humble man, who will himself say he was not God's first pick to do what he does. We know who are Lord is, where our help comes from, and under whose authority we do anything. We are careful, even hesitant to do some of the things that we do and say say what we say. This is a church with a humble pastor raising up humble men. We want to help people and that is our aim. If other churches were doing there job to heal all three facets of their congregation (Spirit, Soul, and Body) we wouldn't have so many broken people coming from everywhere, and we wouldn't continually extend the invitation to come and meet Jesus. We draw near to Him and He draws near to us. Period.

You are very aggressive in your responses Swizzle, which makes this work done in your heart - in my mind - to be questionable. I ask you to compare yourself to the Moravian Christians in John Wesley's day. They were beaten and abused, yet they went away without a complaint or any feelings of anger at all.

Besides, if I am in error then God will deal with me, will He not?


5. Your accusation that we do not go out is SINCERELY, SINCERELY underinformed, prejudiced, and misdirected. What you see is our church services. We invite people to come to our services, doesn't your church do the same? We send out missionaries. We have missionaries in Burma, Uganda, and Malaysia. Not to mention, our Pastor and teams from our church have traveled to other countries. Are you seriously critiquing us for having services in our church building and inviting ALL WHO NEED HELP from all over to come to them? You see small clips of our services, and now you are the expert on everything we do? Is that how powerful your anointing is? I must apologize for this good tree that produces good fruit, because the one section of branch that you have seen does not grow according to YOUR expectations.

I just wonder honestly how much money your church makes from all of these visitors. In addition, nope, our church didn't invite people from all over the world to attend. It was up to us to take the gospel out to them, by first preparing men to be qualified to take care of a house church, and then by sending them out to a new city.

I apologize for how harsh this may come across, but sir, in all respect, I have done a good thing to post testimonies to glorify the name of the Lord. For some reason though, I constantly have to apologize to fellow CHRISTIANS for the good I have done, because they despise how the manifestations LOOK. We judge ourselves and correct if we have done something wrong, according to the Bible, not the demons that haunt our church, as you seem to think (believe me, they hate it here). It is not your place to take away from God's glory because you disagree with the means by which God works. If you want to continually harass this work of God out of context, by all means, you aren't welcome.

If this work is not of God, then it will only bring deception to people and trip them up from the Narrow Way, which few there be that find. I must speak a warning against it because I don't believe that it's Biblical.

And no worries, ;) I had no plans of attending.
 
S

swizzlesticka

Guest
#13
1. There is order in this church. It is not a free for all, which these highlight videos may not perfectly portray. These are aimed at showing the intensity, desperation and indignation for God's name that we hold. We are reverent as well as fervent. We have Elders, we have Deacons, we have Pastors. When it is worship time, we ALL worship. When it is prayer time, we all pray. When it is sermon time we all pay attention. All these things are done when God wants, but we are not bound by a schedule that man has set. We are well pastored and we all have jobs to do, which we are full aware of.

The videos speak for themselves.

2. As for women, sir, you are taken out of context. That was a letter written when women were just becoming allowed in the church. They were ignorant, and would often yell out to their husbands whenever they were confused. Paul was trying to make their transition into the meetings smooth, so that the men would not resent them. If you want to contextualize it, don't let ignorant people preach or set doctrine. nor should anyone be disruptive, and we are very attentive of that.

It's amazing what justifications our modern churches come up with in order to allow what has traditionally been disallowed. I will leave the readers of this thread to judge for themselves if a godly church allows such things.

Geneva Study Bible:
But I suffer not a woman to teach, {8} nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(8) The first argument, why it is not lawful for women to teach in the congregation, because by this means they would be placed above men, for they would be their masters: and this is against God's ordinance.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary:
According to St. Paul, women are not allowed to be public teachers in the church; for teaching is an office of authority. But good women may and ought to teach their children at home the principles of true religion. Also, women must not think themselves excused from learning what is necessary to salvation, though they must not usurp authority.


3. I agree that we SHOULDN'T have to go to one place to find God. Look at the church though. Christians are some of the most oppressed, depressed, enbondaged (may not be a word, but it communicates better than 'bound' as I am writing it) people on Earth. Our intention is not to be THE Church to go to, but for this power of revival to be shared with all churches and the word of Reformation to spread like wildfire. That is why you will hear over and over that we invite pastors and leaders to come, so that their churches can be revived. This does happen, and we link arms with churches that are like-minded. Right now, this seems to be a hot spot, and we in the church are trained to make it continue, not in a free-for-all, hit and miss style. We want this to spread, but a cold candle must touch a lit candle to catch fire. Here is fire, so come and be lit. We don't even WANT to be the only church people can go to, but if people aren't getting helped in their church,we invite them to come.

A revival shouldn't need assistance to leave the confines of a building, or be exclusively tied to a building. I have never heard of such a thing in history as this, going on for over 10 years in a single church building. Why do you have to work so hard to take God's Revival Power to other churches? Is God not able to do it on His own? Truly, the entire city of Kansas should be about 60%-70% converted to Christ by now if this was a real revival.

4. Your fourth accusation is a LIE! Absolutely and straight forward. Wwe have never claimed this, and we have never directed anyone anywhere besides to Jesus. Jesus comes to help. Do your homework and visit the location yourself before you EVER, EVER, EVER make such an outrageous and egregious claim about any church, anywhere, of any denomination. Pastor Steve Gray is a humble man, who will himself say he was not God's first pick to do what he does. We know who are Lord is, where our help comes from, and under whose authority we do anything. We are careful, even hesitant to do some of the things that we do and say say what we say. This is a church with a humble pastor raising up humble men. We want to help people and that is our aim. If other churches were doing there job to heal all three facets of their congregation (Spirit, Soul, and Body) we wouldn't have so many broken people coming from everywhere, and we wouldn't continually extend the invitation to come and meet Jesus. We draw near to Him and He draws near to us. Period.

You are very aggressive in your responses Swizzle, which makes this work done in your heart - in my mind - to be questionable. I ask you to compare yourself to the Moravian Christians in John Wesley's day. They were beaten and abused, yet they went away without a complaint or any feelings of anger at all.

Besides, if I am in error then God will deal with me, will He not?

5. Your accusation that we do not go out is SINCERELY, SINCERELY underinformed, prejudiced, and misdirected. What you see is our church services. We invite people to come to our services, doesn't your church do the same? We send out missionaries. We have missionaries in Burma, Uganda, and Malaysia. Not to mention, our Pastor and teams from our church have traveled to other countries. Are you seriously critiquing us for having services in our church building and inviting ALL WHO NEED HELP from all over to come to them? You see small clips of our services, and now you are the expert on everything we do? Is that how powerful your anointing is? I must apologize for this good tree that produces good fruit, because the one section of branch that you have seen does not grow according to YOUR expectations.

I just wonder honestly how much money your church makes from all of these visitors. In addition, nope, our church didn't invite people from all over the world to attend. It was up to us to take the gospel out to them, by first preparing men to be qualified to take care of a house church, and then by sending them out to a new city.

I apologize for how harsh this may come across, but sir, in all respect, I have done a good thing to post testimonies to glorify the name of the Lord. For some reason though, I constantly have to apologize to fellow CHRISTIANS for the good I have done, because they despise how the manifestations LOOK. We judge ourselves and correct if we have done something wrong, according to the Bible, not the demons that haunt our church, as you seem to think (believe me, they hate it here). It is not your place to take away from God's glory because you disagree with the means by which God works. If you want to continually harass this work of God out of context, by all means, you aren't welcome.

If this work is not of God, then it will only bring deception to people and trip them up from the Narrow Way, which few there be that find. I must speak a warning against it because I don't believe that it's Biblical.

And no worries, ;) I had no plans of attending.
I will ignore your first comment, except for saying this, 6 minutes will not account for 10 hours. we are in service at least 10 hours a weekend, and so a small clip of mainly testimonies, will not "speak for itself" when it comes to the matter of church order.

Our Pastor's wife is under authority and very openly submissive to our Senior Pastor. She only soeaks when he tells her too, but he chooses to acknowledge the anointing God has placed on her. If it is unbiblical for an educated woman to be anointed, I'd like to see biblical proof. She does not usurp authority, and she never does anything she is not allowed to do by her husband. She is responsible for the deliverance and empowerment of many. Look at the fruit, don't split hairs based simply on tradition. The traditional church has also been selfish, immoral, and racist, so it is safe to say that sexism can't be justified simply because that's how grandpa did it.

You make it seem as if the Christian walk is an easy one. Like things "just happen" without people ding anything. God expects us to work and to labor. Look at Paul, he worked HARD to make hings happen. He lost sleep and labored for years. The biggest enemies of the original church were religious people, and it seems to be the same today. As for "aggression", Jesus was not always nice. Paul was not always nice. They often spoke or wrote aggressively, and even sarcastically. Once someone decides take into their own authority to take away from that which glorifies God, I cannot keep a nice tone, especially on a persistent basis. My indignation is only for the glory of God which you seem so intent on nullifying.

As for money, I can tell you very certainly, that we don't care if visitors give. We tell them to keep their money and let us bear the cost of this revival. Our church has over 90% tithers, and many give more. I'm sure now you will try to slam us for being corrupt because we tithe so much, but we have seen so many financial testimonies within our church because we give. We don't need our guests to give money, so they are not egged on or brow beaten into giving. The Lord has given us plenty without our one time guests giving. Do they give, I assume some of them do, but we encourage them to come and test the waters before the give to us. Thanks for your ignorant speculation though, what would the world be like without blind critics?

Finally, what us Biblical? Sickness? Depression? Brokeness? NO! If you really knew your Bible you would know this and rejoice. Instead you twist it destroy what God is doing. When John's disciple came to Jesus, he told them to go back and tell of the fruit they had seen. The blind healed, the crippled walk, the gospel preched to the poor etc. I tell you again, instead of straining the gnats to swallow a camel, LOOK AT THE FRUIT! Once-depressed people have light in theirs eyes. The spiritually dying fall back in love with JESUS. We direct people nowhere else but to JESUS the Messiah. I tell you again, Satan will not do anything that gives Glory to God, so where do these Testimonies come from? You see the proof, so let your eyes be open and your faith built in the power of the Almighty.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#14
ill just comment on the women teaching man statement that Ive seen and this whole "concept of taken out of context" which really amuses me to say the least. Firstly there is more than one scripture that states That a woman should have no authority over a man, i not sexist by any means, its written and confirmed more than once ny Paul. Paul was given the grace to not only preach the Gospel of Christ but to place the structure that it should be conducted. Praise and Worship, Word and then a demonstration to confirm His Word by the power of the Holy Spirit.

His Word will stand for all time for He si the same yesterday,today and forever, not "well back then". i heard a High Court Justice say at the Anglican World Synod trying to just homosexuality as being ok say tha tthe scripture used tha tit is an abomination to God is taken out of concept as the world at the time had different moral standards only and toda ywe are more wiser and educated to know better" Chief Jstice Kirby, High Court of Australia,anglican christian believer of Jesus- wow- the heart of man is evil, itching ears, people will believe what they want to hear to justify themselves, as Jesus said "for those that have ears let them hear" we just need to listen to what the word says, logos becomes rhema in our life if we believe with out doubting
 
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S

swizzlesticka

Guest
#15
I am not changing to word of God, and women preaching is not the same as homosexuality. Kathy Gray is an anointed woman, once again look at the fruit. She operates under the authority of a male Senior Pastor who is her husband, as well as the authority of God. Paul set up females in postitions of authority in the church, but he made standards for them. She is a submissive wife, and demands that other women act accordingly.

The context of scripture was addressing specific issues in specific churches, and we must do our homework to grasp the patterns in context. Do you actually cut off your hand everytime you sin? Why don't you take that command from Jesus, so literally?
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#16
bro, i said teach a man, not she cant pray for him did i? lighten up bro, i go to a pentecostal church, i have seen God move, even thru me and seen demons cast out, healings and believe in the power of The Holy Spirit, wasnt making any reference to the video feeds. Yet we still must be on gaurd, i attended a tent crusade meeting where every one started to act like chickens and the pastor stated its the chook annoiting and they all laughed, i left........quickly
 
M

mizpah

Guest
#17
To God be the Glory!!
 
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102088lscg

Guest
#18
FIRST OFF IN THE BIBLE WHEN DIVID SAID IT FELT LIKE FIRE SHUT UP IN MY BONES ALL I'M GOING TO SAY IS LET ME LIGHT YOU ON FIRE AND YOU JUST STAND THERE! I MEAN THE MAN OF GOD DANCE OUT OF HIS CLOTHES!!!! YOU KNOE THAT BROTHER WAS SHOUTING BE CAUSE HE FELT LIKE GOD HAS DONE JUST THAT MUCH FOR HIM YOU HEAR ME I SHOULD SHOUT RIGHT NOW JUST OFF HOW GOOD MY GOD HAS BEEN TO ME!!! GLORY TO YOUR NAME GOD!.... I'M NOT TO PRETTY TO GIVE HIM THE PRAISE OR TO GIVE HIM CREDIT! I KNOW WHAT GOD DID FOR ME! I'M HOME ALONE AIN'T NO MUSIC AND I DONE KNOCKED A LAMP OVER!! AHH GOD! I GOTTA GO!... JESUS!