Anti-Christ as a nation?

[peterT]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

Here we go again.

Mr. PeterT, those verses you quoted pertain to the dispensation of grace, which will end with the rapture of believers. Yes the Holy Spirit is omnipresent and presently actively comforting believers, directing us into all truth, indwelling believers, restraining sin but when the church is raptured His restraining ministry will cease on earth then the antichrist will take over. We can see in the OT that the Spirit of God was the restraining force against evil (Gen 6:3) and in the church age protecting the church from the power of Satan.
One of the works of the Holy Spirit is restraining evil in man, inspiring man with the scriptures which is a way of restraining evil.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

How will the two witnesses preach and how will people be saved during the Great Tribulation? Those left behind will have a second chance to repent once they see that the rapture has taken place. Those who repent will be the tribulation saints. They will come to the truth through the two witnesses however one's chance of coming to salvation will be very difficult during that time because of the compelling power of the antichrist.

Okay, I'd like to know your perspective, Sir. What is holding back the antichrist until a later time and how will it be taken out of the way as per 2Thess 2:5-8?
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:



By the way, Sir, there are a lot more biblical references that prove the pre-tribulation rapture; it is not foolish as you make it seem. You just need to open your bible to study the purpose of the Great Tribulation and understand the Lord's dealing with His bride who has been purchased by His precious blood, sanctified and made holy for His coming, promised to not face Jacob's trouble, any judgment, or condemnation.

Interesting little ditty, a novel even, a book if you are lucky

“Restraining force against evil” it doesn’t mean the church has been removed from the earth.

He’s just been moved out the way, not removed from the earth.

There are no verses in the Bible or any Bible stories showing that Jesus comes before the great tribulation.

Have you ever seen in the Bible Jesus coming in the clouds before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible the last trumpet sounding or any trumpet sounding before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible the angels doing any reaping before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible the elect being raised before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible a Bible verse showing the dead rising to meet the lord in the air before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible a Bible verse showing the living rising to meet the lord in the air before the great tribulation. NO.


There is NO event, NO stories, NO bible verses, NO NOTHONG showing jesus coming to get us before the great tribulation

 

[starfield]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

starfield....no.
no rapture.
no removal of the church. okay?
the restrainer is not the Holy Spirit.

Then what is 1 Cor 15:52-54 and 1 Thess 4:16-17 referring to if not the rapture?

Interesting little ditty, a novel even, a book if you are lucky

“Restraining force against evil” it doesn’t mean the church has been removed from the earth.

He’s just been moved out the way, not removed from the earth.

There are no verses in the Bible or any Bible stories showing that Jesus comes before the great tribulation.

Have you ever seen in the Bible Jesus coming in the clouds before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible the last trumpet sounding or any trumpet sounding before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible the angels doing any reaping before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible the elect being raised before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible a Bible verse showing the dead rising to meet the lord in the air before the great tribulation. NO.

Have you ever seen in the Bible a Bible verse showing the living rising to meet the lord in the air before the great tribulation. NO.


There is NO event, NO stories, NO bible verses, NO NOTHONG showing jesus coming to get us before the great tribulation

Of course Jesus is not coming to earth before the tribulation, believers will be caught up together to meet Him in the air (1 Thess 4:16-17) then He will step foot on earth after the tribulation with His bride for the battle of Armageddon (Zech 14:4, Jude 1:14, Rev 19:9). Your problem is that you cannot distinguish between the rapture of the church and re-gathering of Israel. The remnant of Israel as well as tribulation saints will be gathered by angels at Christ's second coming (Matt 24:31) whereas there will be no angelic gathering in the rapture.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. We cannot be on earth and stand before Him at the same time.

The tribulation will be God's wrath upon the wicked unrepentant world, and His bride will not partake in it.

 

[peterT]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

Then what is 1 Cor 15:52-54 and 1 Thess 4:16-17 referring to if not the rapture?


Of course Jesus is not coming to earth before the tribulation, believers will be caught up together to meet Him in the air (1 Thess 4:16-17) then He will step foot on earth after the tribulation with His bride for the battle of Armageddon (Zech 14:4, Jude 1:14, Rev 19:9). Your problem is that you cannot distinguish between the rapture of the church and re-gathering of Israel. The remnant of Israel as well as tribulation saints will be gathered by angels at Christ's second coming (Matt 24:31) whereas there will be no angelic gathering in the rapture.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. We cannot be on earth and stand before Him at the same time.

The tribulation will be God's wrath upon the wicked unrepentant world, and His bride will not partake in it.

No tribulation is not Gods wrath.

The wrath is for the wicked, the people that take the mark of the beast.

The wrath of God comes on the wicked people that have the mark of the beast NOT on God’s children

We are in the heavens when the 7 plagues come "AFTER" getting the victory over the beast and his mark

There we are stand on the sea of glass AFTER getting the victory over the beast. Then the seven angels having the seven last plagues pour out the wrath of God upon the people that have the mark of the beast.

Rv15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

As you can see we are in the heavens AFTER getting the victory over the beast and his make and before the wrath is poured out on the people that have the mark of the beast


Rv16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,


Tribulation is man’s wrath on the people of God, the wrath vials are for the wicked

 

[Stephen63]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

If I were to disagree with this being the Holy Spirit, which I don't, wouldn't it be nice, kind & proper to say who I thought it was? Just sayin'.........

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

i don't know why this is so difficult...

the apostle john plainly -defines- antichrist for us...antichrists are false teachers who deny that jesus is the christ or who deny that jesus christ came in the flesh...there were many antichrists in john's time and there are many today as well...

so...not a person...not a nation...but a series of false teachers who lead people away from the truth...

 

[peterT]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

i don't know why this is so difficult...

the apostle john plainly -defines- antichrist for us...antichrists are false teachers who deny that jesus is the christ or who deny that jesus christ came in the flesh...there were many antichrists in john's time and there are many today as well...

so...not a person...not a nation...but a series of false teachers who lead people away from the truth...

Johns interpretation of an antichrist is not the only way to spot an antichrist.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

Mr. PeterT, those verses you quoted pertain to the dispensation of grace, which will end with the rapture of believers. Yes the Holy Spirit is omnipresent and presently actively comforting believers, directing us into all truth, indwelling believers, restraining sin but when the church is raptured His restraining ministry will cease on earth then the antichrist will take over. We can see in the OT that the Spirit of God was the restraining force against evil (Gen 6:3) and in the church age protecting the church from the power of Satan.
One of the works of the Holy Spirit is restraining evil in man, inspiring man with the scriptures which is a way of restraining evil.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

How will the two witnesses preach and how will people be saved during the Great Tribulation? Those left behind will have a second chance to repent once they see that the rapture has taken place. Those who repent will be the tribulation saints. They will come to the truth through the two witnesses however one's chance of coming to salvation will be very difficult during that time because of the compelling power of the antichrist.

first of all grace is not a temporary 'dispensation'...grace has been the only means of salvation all the way through history...

the holy spirit cannot be taken away or else there would be no tribulation saints at all... 1 corinthians 12:3..."no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,' except by the Holy Spirit."

also notice that the 144,000 are sealed...the seal refers to the holy spirit...as in 2 corinthians 1:21-22 and ephesians 1:13 and ephesians 4:30

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

If I were to disagree with this being the Holy Spirit, which I don't, wouldn't it be nice, kind & proper to say who I thought it was? Just sayin'.........

pagan rome

 

[Therapon]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

also notice that the 144,000 are sealed...the seal refers to the holy spirit...as in 2 corinthians 1:21-22 and ephesians 1:13 and ephesians 4:30

Afraid not, my dear lady. Rev 7:4 tells us that the 144,000 are the Jews of the Christian era and Rev 14:1 tells us what name they were sealed under . . . "

"and I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel." Rev 7:4

The reason they are sealed this way is because the Jews of the Christian era were not permitted to know the New Testament Gospel (Romans 11:8), so they are still under the Law of Moses, sealed by the only G-d they have been permitted to know, God the Father.

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads." Rev I4:1.

 

[peterT]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

i don't know why this is so difficult...

the apostle john plainly -defines- antichrist for us...antichrists are false teachers who deny that jesus is the christ or who deny that jesus christ came in the flesh...there were many antichrists in john's time and there are many today as well...

so...not a person...not a nation...but a series of false teachers who lead people away from the truth...

You have the devil being cast out into the earth coming with great wrath for a short time.

you have a man of sin bigger that god.

You have john saying an Antichrist shall come.

You have Jesus saying the prince of this world cometh.

You have Jesus saying I come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not, if one comes in his own name him you will reserve.

You have someone killing all, if they don’t worship his image

You have a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies

You have someone doing mighty miracles to deceive the whole world.

You have ten kings in the end giving the power to the beast and making war with the lamb.

You have another king that comes out of ten kings making war with the saints and overcoming them.

Some speculation, but we build doctrine and call it sound on a lot less than that, including you.

NOW show me the scripture to tell your story, or are you just going to interpret and speculate on the scriptures that I use to tell my story.

 

[doulos]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

You have the devil being cast out into the earth coming with great wrath for a short time.

you have a man of sin bigger that god.

You have john saying an Antichrist shall come.

You have Jesus saying the prince of this world cometh.

You have Jesus saying I come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not, if one comes in his own name him you will reserve.

You have someone killing all, if they don’t worship his image

You have a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies

You have someone doing mighty miracles to deceive the whole world.

You have ten kings in the end giving the power to the beast and making war with the lamb.

You have another king that comes out of ten kings making war with the saints and overcoming them.

Some speculation, but we build doctrine and call it sound on a lot less than that, including you.

NOW show me the scripture to tell your story, or are you just going to interpret and speculate on the scriptures that I use to tell my story.

Are you sure you aren't putting words in her mouth because you are trying to squeeze what she said through your doctrinal filter. I've read her posts she isnt sayin that "devil being cast out into the earth coming with great wrath for a short time" or that the "man of sin bigger that god" etc.... Why don't you take the time to gain an understanding of what others are actually saying? Don't you realize that when you misrepresent the point others are making because you failed to take the time to understand what they say you only discredit yourself?

 

[peterT]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

Are you sure you aren't putting words in her mouth because you are trying to squeeze what she said through your doctrinal filter. I've read her posts she isnt sayin that "devil being cast out into the earth coming with great wrath for a short time" or that the "man of sin bigger that god" etc.... Why don't you take the time to gain an understanding of what others are actually saying? Don't you realize that when you misrepresent the point others are making because you failed to take the time to understand what they say you only discredit yourself?

Never said she did say that, maybe you should take some time to gain an understanding of what others are actually saying

Don't you realize that when you misrepresent the point others are making because you failed to take the time to understand what they say you only discredit yourself?

Nice try tho

 

[peterT]

Re: Anit-Christ as a nation?

Are you sure you aren't putting words in her mouth because you are trying to squeeze what she said through your doctrinal filter. I've read her posts she isnt sayin that "devil being cast out into the earth coming with great wrath for a short time" or that the "man of sin bigger that god" etc.... Why don't you take the time to gain an understanding of what others are actually saying? Don't you realize that when you misrepresent the point others are making because you failed to take the time to understand what they say you only discredit yourself?

You have.

Let me put it a different way

You have in the bible, Not you have personally said

And if you had bothered to read all the posts as you said you did, you would have seen that it was me that said those things.

So like you said

“Why don't you take the time to gain an understanding of what others are actually saying? Don't you realize that when you misrepresent the point others are making because you failed to take the time to understand what they say you only discredit yourself?”