Originally Posted by
DiscipleDave
The Church will be present for all 7 Seals, and six Trumpets. The last Trump is when Christ Returns and Raptures the dead in Christ first (Saints) then He will (with the Saints) gather up the living in Christ Saints and we will reside with Him and the Father in the First Heaven, in the New City Jerusalem.
Bringing others into the Kingdom should be done now, because when the Tribulation Period starts, bringing someone into the Kingdom will be next to impossible. For when the wrath of God comes upon the world because of sinning, disobedient children, many who claim to be a part of the Kingdom will fall away. When Tribulation starts, people will not be joining the Kingdom, they will be leaving it.
^i^
Good Evening to you as well Brother.
It is a common assumption that because there are seven trumpet judgments, that the seventh trumpet is that "Last Trump" spoken of when the resurrection and catching away takes place.
The mere fact that it says the last Trump indicates Plainly and clearly it is referring to a series of Trumpets correct? i mean to say the last trump indicate there are other trumps that are previous to the last trump. Then lo and behold we have a series of Trumpets being sounded in Revelations. Taking a look at the LAST TRUMPET, is there any indication that it is Jesus Returning to the Earth? Why yes there is, consider the TRUTH.
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The Mystery of God should be finished, Done, COMPLETED, Accomplished. And the previous verse says there is time no longer, why? Because it is finished, there is no more time, you are either taken or you are not taken up with Him.. And what did the prophets teach? They taught about Jesus reigning on Earth, coming back.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
When does the kingdoms of the world become the Kingdoms of Jesus Christ? When He Returns, is when the kingdoms of this world become His, and He will rule them with a rod of iron, When does this happen, When He gets here, when the seventh Angels blows the last Trumpet.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
When are the dead judged? According to Scriptures at the Rapture. For the dead shall rise first when the Rapture happens. Do all the dead rise? NO. but the dead are judged, and if their name is written in the Book of Life, they will rise to meet Jesus in the air, this is when they are Judged. They are Judged at the Rapture, and when does all this happen, when the 7th Trumpet is blown. Because Scriptures plainly teach at the 7th Trumpet the dead are judged.
When are the Saints rewarded? At the Rapture is when every living person will be judged, and if there name is written in the Book of Life, they are Raptured, it is at that time they are rewarded with a Glorified Body, crowns, white clothing, etc.. When are the Saints rewarded? At the Rapture, when are they Rewarded, at the last Trumpet.
Scriptures plainly teach that at the 7th Trumpet, the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of Jesus Christ. At the 7th Trumpet the Mystery of God is finished. At the 7th Trumpet there is time no longer. At the 7th Trumpet the dead are judged. At the 7th Trumpet the Saints are rewarded. All these things PLAINLY teach what God has already told me, that at the 7th Trumpet Christ Returns to the Earth.
1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The dead are raised incorruptible, why? Because they are judged to be worthy of being raised from the dead, and when are the dead judged? Scriptures teach at the 7th Trumpet, which lo and behold is the last trumpet sounding. You have studied Revelations for 40 years and you do not know this?
But the fact is that, this claim is based solely on the use of the word "trumpet." Below are the reasons why the "seventh trumpet" is not synonymous with the "Last Trump."
Let us see what verses you use to back up your personal belief of what you think the TRUTH is.
* After the sounding of the seventh trumpet, there is no mention in the scripture of either the resurrection or the catching away
Yes there is, what do you think the time of the dead for them to be judged means?
* The Resurrection and catching away is a blessing, while the trumpets are plagues of God's wrath
But Scriptures PLAINLY teach at the 7th Trumpet it is a time for the Saints to be rewarded, which indeed is a Blessing.
* The seventh trumpet is one of the worst of God's wrath, as it is referred to as one of the three Woes.
It is the worse, but not for the Saints, it is worse because of the billions who were not taken with Jesus. Do you not understand when Christ Returns, the world will mourn, the people of the world will weep and gnash their teeth, it is a terrible day for those who live in the world, indeed a great woe.
* The church is never mentioned again from Revelation 4 onward, but only the great tribulation saints are referred to
The same logic can be used by those who teach there is no RAPTURE, because the word Rapture is never mentioned at all in ALL of Scriptures. This logic is flawed. Just because the Church is not mentioned does not make it TRUE to assume that means they are not there during those times. It is equally TRUE that it does not mention the CHURCH is gone during those times either. To assume anything concerning the Church during those times is just that, an assumption. A GUESS.
* The church will not be here to experience any of the wrath of God, which is made up of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, for we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath.
You do error not knowing or understanding the Truth of Scriptures. Here are some verses that Clearly teach we will suffer.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal_6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
So if you sin with your flesh, then according to the Word of God you SHALL reap corruption in that flesh. And most will suffer this corruption during their hour of temptation (Tribulation Period)
Rom_2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Every soul, that includes me and you as well. Christians are NOT exempt from this verse.
1Th 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto. :4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
1Pe 4:1 Fo ras much then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; :2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
These who do this are not appointed to wrath, but those who continue to live in the flesh are indeed appointed to His Wrath. if you sow to the flesh, you shall reap corruption.
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. So we are to be Tried in a fiery trial (hour of temptation)
Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
So Jesus will punish that that He loves.
Psa 119:75 I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted (punished)
me.
Psa 125:3 For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous (Christians) put forth their hands unto iniquity (SIN).
Pro_11:23 The desire of the righteous is ONLY good: but the expectation of the wicked is wrath. Can a Christian do that which is wicked? Those who do wickedness are wicked, and their expectation is wrath.
Isa_13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Woe to those who continue to live in sin, claiming they are NOT SINNERS, how will they escape His wrath? Oh yeah, they claim they are not appointed to wrath and THINK they will not be effected by His wrath, yet they continue to live in sin and claim they can't cease from sinning. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Rom_1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against ALL ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Do you claim to hold the TRUTH yet continue to live in unrighteousness?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; :6 Who will render to EVERY man according to his deeds: He has no respect of persons, God is going to render to EVERY person according to their deeds, which reminds me of the verse that teaches if you sow to the flesh of the flesh you shall reap corruption. What? you are sowing to the flesh NOW, and have not reaped corruption? You will, because the Word of God does not lie, and i will tell you, that corruption will, for most, come during the time of the Tribulation period, those who continue to live in sin, are just storing up wrath for themselves.
Rom_2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, (SIN)
indignation and wrath,
Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
This is TRUE, but only for those who are cleansed by His Blood. And Who according to the Word of God are cleansed by His Blood.
1Jn 1:7 But if (Conditional)
we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin. When are we cleansed by His Blood? IF we are walking in the light as He walked in the light, how did He walk?
Eph_5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Who is the Wrath of God coming upon according to Scriptures, children of God that disobey. Do you disobey and continue to live in sin?
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: Anyone who does those things shall not escape His wrath, they are disobedient children.
1Th_5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
This is True, God does not appoint anyone for wrath, it is not His desire that anyone should perish. This does not make void the Scriptures that teach when a person sows to their flesh they shall reap corruption. Those who willingly sow to the flesh appoint themselves to wrath, because they become disobedient children when they choose to disobey God and willingly commit sins which they know full well are sinful but do them anyways, they appoint themselves to wrath of God. God does not lie, Tribulation and anguish upon EVERY sould that does evil. Those who willingly choose to do those wicked things that they know full well is is sinful will not escape the wrath of God when it comes upon the Earth, those who live in sins now, are storing up wrath for themselves during the hour of temptation, and they will not be able to escape it. But here is HOPE. LOVE ONE ANOTHER. For love covers a multitude of sins.
In conclusion, the claim that the seventh trumpet judgment is synonymous with the "last trump" is based solely on the fact that it is the last of seven trumpets.
That makes since, doesn't it, the last Trumpet being the last of the series of trumptets mentioned in Revelations?
Yet, after the sounding of the seventh trumpet, there is nothing in the scripture itself that mentions anything about the resurrection and catching away nor even hints of it.
That is because you refuse to see the hints of it. Should i believe you or what God told me?
The seventh trumpet is exactly that, the last trumpet of a set of seven trumpet judgments and is not related to the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15:52 and 1 Thes.4:16, which must be a different trumpet.
Seriously? You testify that the seventh trumpet is the last trumpet of the Trumpet Judments then teach others that the verses which talk about the last trumpet sounding is NOT the the 7th Trumpet which you testify is the last trumpet. So apparently you believe the last trump of 1 Cor and i Thes is from ANOTHER set up Trumpets sounding, tell us then, Where is the OTHER last Trumpets that I Cor and I Thes are referring too? YOU say it is not the 7th Trumpet in Revelations, so then tell us what Last Trumpet sounding in I Cor and I Thes are referring too? This should be interesting to hear from you.
^i^
