Armstrongism - British Israelism

[eternally-gratefull]

"Upon His return, the King will restore the Davidic monarchy in His own person, regather dispersed Israel, establish His power over all the earth, and reign one thousand years.

"The dispensation of the kingdom begins with the return of Christ to the earth, runs through the 'thousand years' of His earth‑rule, and ends when he has delivered up the kingdom to the Father...

"The gospel of the kingdom. This is the good news that God purposes to set up on the earth, in fulfillment of the Davidic covenant, a kingdom, political, spiritual, Israelitish (i.e. Jewish), universal, over which God's son, David's heir, shall be king, and which shall be for one thousand years, the manifestation of the righteousness of God in human affairs...

"Two resurrections are yet future, which are inclusive of 'all that are in the graves.' These are distinguished as 'of life' and 'of judgment.' They are separated by a period of one thousand years."

Scofield Bible, pp. 1227, note 6; 1228, note 4; 1341, note 1; 1343

like....huh?
that's isn't in the Bible AT ALL.

Actually, yes it is. He got this part right. It is the rest of his theology that went nuts!

Like Isreal was saved by the law of moses.
The Church is saved by the law of Christ
During the tribulation. isreal returns to being saved by the law.

Now this is nonsense!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Zone, this whole chatroom understands your hatred and despisal of scofield, and darby. But lets not be so dark in our hatred we refuse to look at other views..

 

[zone]

Yep he did. But he was not just sent to Isreal, he was also sent to the gentiles.

not according to Him He wasn't. not His personal mission to fulfill the promises to the patriarchs.
Gentiles came to Him, and He healed and saved, but He never left the region of the Israelites, to whom He was sent.

Matthew 15:24
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

Romans 15:8
For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs

He fulfilled that critical prophecy by Daniel.

all of it.

they got it half right. They think they are correct in their gospel. and still think they have the only way to heaven. Which they were wrong in christs day, and are wrong today, Nothing has changed.

As for the kingdom. Even the disciples believed the kingdom would still come, And Jesus did not correct them in their thinking, For why would he? it is still going to come.

Matthew 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Yes, i agree. But that does not mean God will correct this thinking in them also. In fact, it says he will. We should look forward to that. and our eternity, and not spread hate and discontent, and ignore a biblical theology which those two men distorted and got wrong.

im not spreading hate and discontent.
just trying to show that because we bought into Dispensationalism (whatever form it takes), we are taking part in hate - we have believed the lie that anything belongs to anyone based on race (or lineage).

it doesnt. but tell evangelicals who wanna nuke iran and...or thrash everybody because israelis want to.
no Gospel.

just nukes and walls and whatnot.

What Story? Oh I know. That isreal (even today) is hated, because of things like the torah, and their rejection of Christ. But beloved according to the promises. Because the promises of God are still valid.

um....the Promises of God are all yea and Amen in Christ.
not acreage in the Middle East.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If anyone here has a reason to hate them, and fight against them, it is me. I was duped by their foolishness for close to 20 years.

I would love to fight them with you, and all these heresies which you bring up like this thread. But I can't because we can not come to even an agree to disagree on other issues concerning Isreal. All I get is a It is error, and it is wrong, and it 100 % will not happen. there is no play. so I have to support my belief in this area, and we can not discuss the other areas which DO need discussed.

 

[zone]

Zone, this whole chatroom understands your hatred and despisal of scofield, and darby. But lets not be so dark in our hatred we refuse to look at other views..

i never met the men.
but i truly do despise their false doctrine.
thats not secret.

how many millions murdered so far for a carnal kingdom i wonder.

ive looked at the other views.
i am posting on some now.

 

[Graybeard]

Debunking British Israelism, the Pet Doctrine of Armstrongism

Abraham's Children: Race, Identity, and the DNA of the Chosen People

I am certain the Lost Tribes of Israel are alive and well. I know, for example, the the exiled tribe of Dan sojourned across Europe and named many rivers, towns, and countries during it's travels, such as the Danube River, Donegal, and Denmark. The tribe of Ephraim settled in Britain; the word "British" is of course derived from the ancient Hebrew word beriyth, which means "{covenant." The Israelites, "Issac's sons," naturally became known as Saxons. And Queen Elizabeth and her linage are direct descendants of King David and the legitimate heirs to the Israelite throne. It's all clear.

How do I know this? Because the Worldwide Church of God tells me so, or at least it used to. That's the Pasadena, California sect founded by an ex-advertising agent, Herbert W. Armstrong, in the early 1930's.

Armstrong was a devout believer in what is called British Israelism or Anglo-Israelism, a movement originating centuries ago and still alive today that maintains that most Britons are descendants of ancient Israelites. Armstrong got his start in 1931, when he launched the hit program The World Today on the Radio Church of God. His message mixed elements of Judaism with a dash of Seventh-day Adventism and a sprinkling of pagan mysticism. He cooked up quite a stew. He preached that the Bible was a "coded message not allowed to be revealed"-that is, until he cracked the secrets. He was willing to share its hidden wisdom with anyone and everyone, particularly those who would cough up 25 percent or more of their income to help spread the "the word." When Armstrong died in 1986, the WWCG claimed more than 150,000 members and an annual budget of $130 million. His successors ultimately abandoned Anglo-Israelism for an evangelical Protestantism,, although numerous Armstrong family members and friends founded sects that preserve some of the zanier claims of the elder sage.

The search for the missing Lost Tribes ranks right up there in biblical mythology with the quest for the Ark of the Covenant and the Holy Grail. The mystery of their whereabouts has encouraged a motley crew of true believers, mystics, zealots, troubadours, and out-and-out fakers. It is so alluring and central to questions of Western identity than an equally unusual assortment of truth seekers has more recently joined in the quest: anthropologists and geneticists.

Abraham's Children: Race, Identity, and the DNA of the Chosen People: Jon Entine: 9780446580632: Amazon.com: Books < click

The Curse of Ham (also called the curse of Canaan) refers to the curse that Ham's father, Noah, placed upon Ham's youngest son, Canaan, after Ham "saw his father's nakedness" because of drunkenness in Noah's tent. It is related in the Book of Genesis 9:20-27.

The "curse of Ham" had been used by some members of Abrahamic religions to justify racism and the enslavement of people of African ancestry, who were believed to be descendants of Ham. They were often called Hamites and were believed to have descended through Canaan or his older brothers. This racist theory was widely held during the eighteenth to twentieth centuries, but it has been largely abandoned since the mid-twentieth century by even the most conservative theologians.

Pre-modern European interpretations
In the Middle Ages, European scholars of the Bible picked up on the Jewish Talmud idea of viewing the "sons of Ham" or Hamites as cursed, possibly "blackened" by their sins. Though early arguments to this effect were sporadic, they became increasingly common during the slave trade of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.[6] The justification of slavery itself through the sins of Ham was well suited to the ideological interests of the elite; with the emergence of the slave trade, its racialized version justified the exploitation of a ready supply of African labour. This interpretation of Scripture was never adopted by the African Coptic Churches.

The curse of Ham in the Latter-day Saint Movement (Mormon)
The first recorded indication of Joseph Smith's adoption of the doctrine of the curse of Ham is found in a parenthetical reference as early as 1831.[7]

After the death of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, the church's second president, taught that people of African ancestry were under the curse of Ham. Young also taught that the day would come when the curse would be nullified through the saving powers of Jesus Christ.[8]

In addition, based on his interpretation of the Book of Abraham, Young also believed that as a result of this curse, modern people of African descent were banned from receiving the Priesthood (although they were allowed to join the Church). Young believed the curse remained in people with even a single black ancestor.

However, every President of the Church from Joseph Smith Jr. to Spencer W. Kimball stated that the day would come when the Priesthood would be available to all men. In 1978, after much prayer and fasting on the matter, President Spencer W. Kimball of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints received a revelation which officially extended the Priesthood to all worthy males.

Curse of Ham - New World Encyclopedia < click

May 26, 2010 | 1:46 am
Are Mormons Zionists?

Posted by Mark Paredes

Israel is central to Judaism in a way that makes the two inseparable. Sooner or later, Jews will ask their non-Jewish friends what they think about Israel. Regardless of how much you love and appreciate Jewish culture, values, food, delis, music, or liturgy, Jews do not fully understand how you feel about them and their faith until they know how you feel about the Jewish state. Avoiding the question is like answering an expectant son who wants to know what you think of his new fiancée by telling him that she has nice hair, dresses well, has a lovely voice, etc. Until he knows what you think of her as a person, he can’t know how you really feel about her.

Mormons should certainly welcome this question. The modern incarnation of our Church has been on the earth for 180 years; no other church that has been around at least that long has a comparable record of continuous support for the Jewish people. Indeed, Israel is the only country in the world whose creation was officially supported by the LDS Church. From its earliest days, the Church has called on Jews to gather to Palestine and form a state.

The first edition of the first Church newspaper announced that it “comes to bring good tidings of great joy to all people, but more especially to the House of Israel scattered abroad, for the Lord hath set His hand again the second time to restore them to the lands of their inheritance.” In response to an article entitled “What Do Mormons Believe?” written by a newspaper editor, an 1834 article in a Church newspaper stated: “We believe that God has set His hand to recover the remnant of His people, Israel; and that the time is near when He will bring them from the four winds and reinstate them upon their own lands which He gave their fathers by covenant.”

Orson Hyde, a prominent early apostle, traveled to Europe in 1841 to warn European Jewish leaders to flee to Palestine in order to escape an inevitable catastrophe (unfortunately, they ignored his warnings). He then went to Palestine, which he dedicated for the gathering of the Jews.

In his dedicatory prayer (the first of at least 11 recorded apostolic blessings given in the Holy Land), Elder Hyde made the following request of God for the scattered children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: “Let the land become abundantly fruitful when possessed by its rightful heirs.” At the dedication of our first temple in 1836, the President of the Church asked that “the children of Judah may begin to return to the lands which thou didst give to Abraham, their father.” Following the establishment of Israel, the Church purchased thousands of dollars of Israel bonds. Church President David O.McKay clarified that the purchase was made “to show our sympathy with the effort being made to establish the Jews in their homeland.”

http://www.jewishjournal.com/jews_and_mormons/item/are_mormons_zionists_39100526 < click

"Mr. Romney has suggested that he would not make any significant policy decisions about Israel without consulting Mr. Netanyahu — a level of deference that could raise eyebrows given Mr. Netanyahu’s polarizing reputation, even as it appeals to the neoconservatives and evangelical Christians who are fiercely protective of Israel.

In a telling exchange during a debate in December, Mr. Romney criticized Mr. Gingrich for making a disparaging remark about Palestinians, declaring: “Before I made a statement of that nature, I’d get on the phone to my friend Bibi Netanyahu and say: ‘Would it help if I say this? What would you like me to do?’ “"

Vhttp://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/us/politics/mitt-romney-and-benjamin-netanyahu-are-old-friends.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 < click

O......kay.......my head hurts now....thanks Zone, you owe me a disprin..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i never met the men.
but i truly do despise their false doctrine.
thats not secret.

The point you miss. So do I. They led me astray for over 20 years. I would love to be your advocate against them, and be united with you.; But you make it hard. Instead of just going against them. And sticking to what they say, you go against me. And it forces me to defend myself. instead of helping in OUR fight against them and others like them!

how many millions murdered so far for a carnal kingdom i wonder.

well we will not stop this. But yes. we do not need to stand united against this belief. Isreal is carnal right now. We need to agree on this and move from there. and leave some things alone

ive looked at the other views.
i am posting on some now.

yes. and I am against this view also 100 %, it is error. and needs fought. Let me fight it with you as an advocate not an adversary!

 

[zone]

The point you miss. So do I. They led me astray for over 20 years. I would love to be your advocate against them, and be united with you.; But you make it hard. Instead of just going against them. And sticking to what they say, you go against me. And it forces me to defend myself.

i'm not against you EG.

i'm just standing firm against what they said.
cuz it's totally wrong. i have to.

well we will not stop this. But yes. we do not need to stand united against this belief. Isreal is carnal right now. We need to agree on this and move from there. and leave some things alone

well, i can't hardly leave this alone because so many false doctrines are tied to it.
plus it's wrong to not warn our brothers and sisters they're unwittingly taking part in Murder Inc....thinking it's for the "kingdom" or whatever.

i think so, anyways.
so no, i can't just leave it alone.

yes. and I am against this view also 100 %, it is error. and needs fought. Let me fight it with you as an advocate not an adversary!

OKAY!
let's do it!

(but i never considered you an adversary)

 

[unclefester]

(but i never considered you an adversary)

Me neither. Maybe a stubborn ole' cool dude. But a cool dude nonetheless

 

[webchatter]

The craziest of those quotes was that the serpent in the garden of Eden was a black man. lol. Sounds like some crap charles manson has been saying while in prison. There are people here in cc that do believe a lot of Bristish & U.S. citizens are unknown lost tribes, so you'll probabaly get some better discussion from their viewpoint. I have been watching some videos of several Rabbies calling the present Jews in Israel "Zionists", claiming they abandoned the Jewish faith, & that Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism.
I saw a documentary about the plague, where some peoples were immune to the plague, even after helping to bury the dead. The gene was of Jewish descent that provided the immunity.After testing peoples all over the world a few years ago, geneticists discovered that Mexicans have these Jewish genes.
I agree that the war of Ezekial has not yet happened. I don't see where the solving of the lost tribes affects my interpretation of prophecy because God can gather them together when & where he chooses. Some people claim Judea is where original Israel was located. I know the Jewish people in Israel think they are in original Israel & think they are Jews & are collecting & creating new items for the new Temple. We know that Jerusalem is in it's original place & the temple rock, so I really don't get all the "Israel isn't Israel", which is the other thing this belief states.

 

[zone]

European/American slavery, 17th–18th centuries
The explanation that black Africans, as the "sons of Ham", were cursed, possibly "blackened" by their sins, was advanced only sporadically during the Middle Ages, but it became increasingly common during the slave trade of the 18th and 19th centuries.[54] The justification of slavery itself through the sins of Ham was well suited to the ideological interests of the elite; with the emergence of the slave trade, its racialized version justified the exploitation of a ready supply of African labour.

In the parts of Africa where Christianity flourished in the early days, while it was still illegal in Rome, this idea never took hold, and its interpretation of scripture was never adopted by the African Coptic Churches. A modern Amharic commentary on Genesis notes the 19th century and earlier European theory that blacks were subject to whites as a result of the "curse of Ham", but calls this a false teaching unsupported by the text of the Bible, emphatically pointing out that Noah's curse fell not upon all descendants of Ham, but only on the descendants of Canaan, and asserting that it was fulfilled when Canaan was occupied by both Semites (Israel) and Japhetites (ancient Philistines). The commentary further notes that Canaanites ceased to exist politically after the Third Punic War (149 BC), and that their current descendants are thus unknown and scattered among all peoples.[55]

Latter Day Saint movement
Main articles: Blacks and the Latter Day Saint movement and Blacks and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

After the death of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) taught that Black Africans were under the curse of Ham, although the day would come when the curse would be nullified through the saving powers of Jesus Christ.[56] In addition, based on his interpretation of the Book of Abraham, Brigham Young believed that as a result of this curse Negroes were banned from the Mormon Priesthood.[57] In 1978 then LDS president Spencer W. Kimball said he received a revelation that extended the Priesthood to all worthy male members of the LDS Church.[58]

Curse of Ham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

 

[zone]

&#8220;Those who are incapable of attaining to supreme religious values include the black coloured people and those who resemble them in their climates. Their nature is like the mute animals. Their level among existing things is below that of a man and above that of a monkey.&#8221;

Maimonides c. 1200
Guide To The Perplexed


Maimonides
Maimonides - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


fallen humans are all racists or bigots of some kind.

in Christ we discover there is no room for that.
neither jew nor gentile.

Maimonides lived a long time ago....what's our excuse today?
btw: Mormonism ain't what you think it is.

 

[Abiding]

Me neither. Maybe a stubborn ole' cool dude. But a cool dude nonetheless

Yes very cool....but dont let up on him
me thinks he can get way cooler dude going

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i'm not against you EG.

i'm just standing firm against what they said.
cuz it's totally wrong. i have to.

and so do I, this is not the point. They are NOT the only ones who believe in a future kingdom, and the restoration of isreal AFTER they repent. So using this as the basic whole of your argument does go against me. There are MANY MANY things they teach which do not have to do with this.. which are lies.

1. God never told the church to defend these enemies
2. God never told anyone to defend them
3. God called them our enemy, that is all we need to know..

well, i can't hardly leave this alone because so many false doctrines are tied to it.
plus it's wrong to not warn our brothers and sisters they're unwittingly taking part in Murder Inc....thinking it's for the "kingdom" or whatever.

1. There are so many false doctrines tied to james also. yet we do not have to fight against James. just show how eternal life is eternal. Just because there are alot of false doctrines tyied to it, does not mean IT is false.
2. I agree, as I said, no place in scripture does it tell the church to die for Israel. It says God will protect them, do we need to replace God. are we more powerful than him? Thats why I said God knows where Israel is. So it does not matter if I know or not. IF God said he is going to do something, there is nothing I can do to stop it.. or help it.. He will do it when he is good and ready.

i think so, anyways.
so no, i can't just leave it alone.

Yeah ya can. You can say some people believe this. But I disagree. Which is fine. But when you say it comes from this false doctrine which is not true, Slam dunk, End point, no more arguing, you lose the ability to dialogue.

OKAY!
let's do it!

(but i never considered you an adversary)

Nor I you!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Me neither. Maybe a stubborn ole' cool dude. But a cool dude nonetheless

lol, this was a good one!! Thanks for the chuckle

 

[tribesman]

Armstrong taught a "gospel" which was conditioned on the work of the sinner and that regeneration takes place after physical death (and resurrection). That's all one needs to know to stay away from his teachings. Other than that he said many would be fascinating things to itch curious ears.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Armstrong taught a "gospel" which was conditioned on the work of the sinner and that regeneration takes place after physical death (and resurrection). That's all one needs to know to stay away from his teachings. Other than that he said many would be fascinating things to itch curious ears.

Some people just do not get it!