babies and unborn babies

[john832]

Complete and utter rubbish!

Of course they do, as Matt 19v14 makes abundantly clear...

Let's see...

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

The Nobleman is Christ, and He goes to heaven to receive the Kingdom, then HE RETURNS.

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

And what do we do?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

And where do we reign?

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And what did Christ say about going to heaven?

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

So you can either believe or continue to spout the rubbish that we go to heaven. The one who wanted to go to heaven is...

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

And has deceived the world with this rubbish ever since...

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[mystdancer50]

John 13:33 isn't speaking to children. He is speaking to His disciples, calling them children.

Consider this commentary from Matthew Henry Commentary:

Little children, yet a little while I am with you, etc. Two things Christ here suggests, to quicken his disciples to improve their present opportunities; two serious words:—(1.) That his stay in this world, to be with them here, they would find to be very short. Little children. This compellation does not bespeak so much their weakness as his tenderness and compassion; he speaks to them with the affection of a father, now that he is about to leaven them, and to leave blessings with them. Know this, then, that yet a little while I am with you. Whether we understand this as referring to his death or his ascension it comes much to one; he had but a little time to spend with them, and therefore, [1.] Let them improve the advantage they now had. If they had any good question to ask, if they would have any advice, instruction, or comfort, let them speak quickly; for yet a little while I am with you. We must make the best of the helps we have for our souls while we have them, because we shall not have them long; they will be taken from us, or we from them. [2.] Let them not doat upon his bodily presence, as if their happiness and comfort were bound up in that; no, they must think of living without it; not be always little children, but go alone, without their nurses. Ways and means are appointed but for a little while, and are not to be rested in, but pressed through to our rest, to which they have a reference.(2.) That their following him to the other world, to be with him there, they would find to be very difficult. What he had said to the Jews ch. 7:34 ) he saith to his disciples; for they have need to be quickened by the same considerations that are propounded for the convincing and awakening of sinners. Christ tells them here, [1.] That when he was gone they would feel the want of him; You shall seek me, that is "you shall wish you had me again with you.’’ We are often taught the worth of mercies by the want of them. Though the presence of the Comforter yielded them real and effectual relief in straits and difficulties, yet it was not such a sensible satisfaction as his bodily presence would have been to those who had been used to it. But observe, Christ said to the Jews, You shall seek me and not find me; but to the disciples he only saith, You shall seek me, intimating that though they should not find his bodily presence any more than the Jews, yet they should find that which was tantamount, and should not seek in vain. When they sought his body in the sepulchre, though they did not find it, yet they sought to good purpose. [2.] That whither he went they could not come, which suggests to them high thoughts of him, who was going to an invisible inaccessible world, to dwell in that light which none can approach unto; and also low thoughts of themselves, and serious thoughts of their future state. Christ tells them that they could not follow him (as Joshua told the people that they could not serve the Lord) only to quicken them to so much the more diligence and care. They could not follow him to his cross, for they had not courage and resolution; it appeared that they could not when they all forsook him and fled. Nor could they follow him to his crown, for they had not a sufficiency of their own, nor were their work and warfare yet finished. II. He discourses with them concerning the great duty of brotherly love (v. 34, v. 35): You shall love one another.

 

[notuptome]

I don't have the reference handy but King David was certain that he would see his child in heaven. The child that he conceived with Bathsheba.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mystdancer50]

I don't have the reference handy but King David was certain that he would see his child in heaven. The child that he conceived with Bathsheba.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

2 Samuel 12, namely verse 23: But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.

 

[john832]

2 Samuel 12, namely verse 23: But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.

Very good!

Add to that this one...

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

And here is a bonus...

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

 

[mystdancer50]

Very good!

Add to that this one...

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

And here is a bonus...

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Acts 2:29-36 is about Christ. The reference to David is that he was not speaking of himself as being the one to come up and sit at God's right hand, but rather that he was speaking of Christ. The reference of David not going up to heaven is a direct reference to the recent ascension of Jesus Christ, to which Peter is referring in this passage of Scripture. v. 34: David didn't go up to heaven. So he wasn't talking about himself when he said, "The Lord told my Lord to sit as his right side,"

John 3:13 refers to believing that we know all things. Though Moses ascended up the mountain and got the 10 commandments, he didn't go into heaven. The purpose of this Scripture in context with the others in chapter 3 of John is telling us to trust in the One that will ascend to heaven, namely Christ, and will tell us the will of God, rather than relying on those that never 'ascended' to heaven. Jesus died and was buried and rose again and then ascended into heaven. This verse is not referring to the death we all will face and then be in heaven with God. Ascension is not the same as dying and then spiritually being in heaven.

 

[john832]

Acts 2:29-36 is about Christ. The reference to David is that he was not speaking of himself as being the one to come up and sit at God's right hand, but rather that he was speaking of Christ. The reference of David not going up to heaven is a direct reference to the recent ascension of Jesus Christ, to which Peter is referring in this passage of Scripture. v. 34: David didn't go up to heaven. So he wasn't talking about himself when he said, "The Lord told my Lord to sit as his right side,"

John 3:13 refers to believing that we know all things. Though Moses ascended up the mountain and got the 10 commandments, he didn't go into heaven. The purpose of this Scripture in context with the others in chapter 3 of John is telling us to trust in the One that will ascend to heaven, namely Christ, and will tell us the will of God, rather than relying on those that never 'ascended' to heaven. Jesus died and was buried and rose again and then ascended into heaven. This verse is not referring to the death we all will face and then be in heaven with God. Ascension is not the same as dying and then spiritually being in heaven.

Naw, it simply says what it means and means what it says.

 

[mystdancer50]

Naw, it simply says what it means and means what it says.

Yes, and what I wrote is what it means. You're taking the verses out of context, picking and choosing ones based on one sentence. We are called to read the verses in their entirety and in their context.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

I hate to sound argumentative, but we are souls. A soul is a living creature that breathes for a living...

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

soul:

H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

Here are some more souls...

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

The word for life there is nephesh, same as the soul man is.

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The word for creature is nephesh. Crabs, Lobsters, clams and sea snails are souls.

Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Yep, nephesh; souls. Skunks, lizards, salamanders and toads are souls.

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Same word, they are all souls.

Can a soul die?

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Souls can and do die. The essence of salvation is to be given life, not just the electro-chemical existence, but life...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Without the gift of God (eternal life through the Holy Spirit) we would simply die and cease to exist for ever and ever.

I'm not sure I see where we are disagreeing with one another?

 

[maxwel]

It's so nice to have a little time for CC...
to see all my brothers and sisters talking about innocent little babies,
and ready to kill each other over them.

It just refreshes my soul.

: )

 

[homwardbound]

We are born in sin. Our very nature is sinful. All of humanity needs Christ for redemption.

Psalms 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one

Not in the flesh anyway, but in the born again Spirit provided to us from God through the cross, we are changed in the twinkling of an eye, if we see this operation from God to us those that believe God

 

[homwardbound]

Very good!

Add to that this one...

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

And here is a bonus...

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

no flesh will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Only in the Spirit are we born again by God from God through the resurrected Christ that took place after the cross.
The battle is the same since Adam and Eve flesh against Spirit, God's. And God won via the cross

 

[john832]

John 13:33 isn't speaking to children. He is speaking to His disciples, calling them children.

Yes, I agree. He was speaking to His disciples. He said they could NOT go there. No one goes there. God comes here and eventually brings the very throne that rulership of the universe issues from to the earth...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

 

[john832]

I'm not sure I see where we are disagreeing with one another?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding. Our spirits do not go to be with God CONSCIOUSLY after we die. They are not made conscious and alive again until the return of Christ and the resurrection. If I have misunderstood your position, then my apologies, I have been wrong.

 

[vanillakay]

Well....with everyone diff opinions i honestly don't know what to think..lo;l I guess ill find out when that day comes.