Christianity for Dummies

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Apr 10, 2015
169
2
0
#81

so, I've been reading the thread and I agree in principal...I might quibble abit here and there...but maybe I am just asking myself questions....

I think you have put some thought into this and I appreciate that....

Maybe we could discuss this:

21“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[SUP]a[/SUP] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[SUP]b[/SUP] [SUP]c[/SUP] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[SUP]d[/SUP] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.23“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.25“Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny. Matthew 5

with respect in particular to what is in green above, but the whole thing generally...

when I look at verses 23 & 24 (green) seems God puts getting things right with other believers before we approach Him...with our 'gifts'...

1. What do we 'see' as gifts

2. Has anyone ever actually 'left their gift' and gone and reconciled

and I'm thinking about something else too, but that's prob enough to chew on for now

Thanks! (ps...this is for honest discussion...I'm not going in with preconceived answers here even though I have looked into this for my own benefit)
I could be wrong, but i believe all that has to do with the old covenant and the law. when you sinned you would offer a gift at the alter to be cleansed of your sins. then go back out and sin again and then gift again and so on and so on.
We are no longer under the law, we are under the new covenant of grace, so we don't have to offer a gift to have our sins forgiven.
The law was given not for man to follow, but to show man that they could not follow it, so we could understand the grace that god would give us through the sacrifice and resurrection of his son Christ Jesus.

This is how i see and interpret the above passages in very simple terms. Again i could be wrong.

So, i for one have never left a gift because under grace through Christ Jesus it is not required of me anymore.

God bless
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
#82
if some cant work out the meaning of, love you neighbour as you love yourself.

what chance have they got of understanding love your enemies.
 
E

ember

Guest
#83
I could be wrong, but i believe all that has to do with the old covenant and the law. when you sinned you would offer a gift at the alter to be cleansed of your sins. then go back out and sin again and then gift again and so on and so on.
We are no longer under the law, we are under the new covenant of grace, so we don't have to offer a gift to have our sins forgiven.
The law was given not for man to follow, but to show man that they could not follow it, so we could understand the grace that god would give us through the sacrifice and resurrection of his son Christ Jesus.

This is how i see and interpret the above passages in very simple terms. Again i could be wrong.

So, i for one have never left a gift because under grace through Christ Jesus it is not required of me anymore.

God bles
I see it very differently and I am somewhat surprised at your response...again, I am not looking for a particular answer, but I don't see this passage as something applicable to the law

I am not confused regarding grace vs law, but thanks for adding that anyway

The way I understand this is as follows:

People go before God every day...in their quiet time or personal time with God...whatever someone wants to call it, and I see the instruction given by Jesus as pertinent to today...nothing to do with the law as the priest made the sacrifice anyway.

So I am asking, how do we come before God? Are we aware of what is in our hearts? We may think our vertical relationship is ok, but I see Jesus defining the horizontal as necessary...Jesus says forgive so you will be forgiven...Lord's prayer

So many people struggle with unforgiveness ... but it is my understanding that in forgiving, we basically leave the rest up to God for Him to deal with

Again, I do not see the 'law' in any of this...I see interpersonal relationships between Christians suffer so much and disagreeements, but honestly, if we walk before God and our conscience is good before Him and we have done all we know to do, then and only then does the devil not have anything in us upon which or in which to sink his accusations and other stumbling blocks

I see the gift here as what we bring to God...whether offerings or spiritual gifts He has given or any other part of us

Perhaps, the gifts we bring, become tarnished and tainted by not observing forgiveness...from the heart....

Why would Jesus speak of forgiveness this way if we were to exclude it believing it fell under the heading "law"?

Jesus seems to be giving new teaching here, IMO, if you take into context His ADDITION, as in 'you have heard it said...meaning the law...but He seems to be adding here or giving an interpretation that involves the heart and not just an act before a priest for any sin with the ascribed sacrifice

He is speaking of brothers and sisters..which indicates the relationships bettween us
Hope that makes sense...that's how I see it...or the short form anyway
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#84
Can you share the bible passage where jesus uses the term agape love. i would like to read up on that.
thanks and much appreciated.

God bless
Matthew 22:39
And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

matt 5: 44
[SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[SUP][h][/SUP]

Agape are used in both instances
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#85
Love your neighbour as you love yourself

This is the commandment, making your neighbour equal to yourself.
Now you can choose to show your neighbour sacrifical love, but you are not commanded to. You are commanded to love your christian brothers as Jesus loved you. This is laying down your life to save another. The problem here is simple, christians often add to a commandment rather than understand its true meaning in context.
It is not loving to say to a thief come and take all my belonging, or to a rapest, come and rape me and my wife, or a arsonist, come and burn down my home. These ideas are about levels of authority and distance drawn between family, friends, neighbours, enemies, and making them different.
For instance turning the other cheek is about insult and not taking offence, but loving the individual and not rising to provocation. But it does not mean avoiding justice or defence of law and order. That is why every concept needs to be addressed carefully, and balanced else you justify chaos, because boundaries are their for a simple practical purpose, but Jesus is often asking us to change them because of the love he has planted within us.
If I am only loving my neighbor equal as I love myself. I am not doing the will of God.

sorry, But I am not buying your reasoning. We are told to love our neighbor and enemy with agape love, Agape love id not self serving, is is self sacrificing. It is all giving, it is true serving, it is unconditional.

We do not even love ourselves this way, We can't We have to allow God to love us this way, so we can share this love with the world.
 
Apr 10, 2015
169
2
0
#86
Matthew 22:39
And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

matt 5: 44
[SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,[SUP][h][/SUP]

Agape are used in both instances
Ok gotcha, see now what you were meaning, thank you

God bless
 
Apr 10, 2015
169
2
0
#87
if some cant work out the meaning of, love you neighbour as you love yourself.

what chance have they got of understanding love your enemies.
A simple and beautiful message, thank you

God bless
 
Apr 10, 2015
169
2
0
#88
I see it very differently and I am somewhat surprised at your response...again, I am not looking for a particular answer, but I don't see this passage as something applicable to the law

I am not confused regarding grace vs law, but thanks for adding that anyway

The way I understand this is as follows:

People go before God every day...in their quiet time or personal time with God...whatever someone wants to call it, and I see the instruction given by Jesus as pertinent to today...nothing to do with the law as the priest made the sacrifice anyway.

So I am asking, how do we come before God? Are we aware of what is in our hearts? We may think our vertical relationship is ok, but I see Jesus defining the horizontal as necessary...Jesus says forgive so you will be forgiven...Lord's prayer

So many people struggle with unforgiveness ... but it is my understanding that in forgiving, we basically leave the rest up to God for Him to deal with

Again, I do not see the 'law' in any of this...I see interpersonal relationships between Christians suffer so much and disagreeements, but honestly, if we walk before God and our conscience is good before Him and we have done all we know to do, then and only then does the devil not have anything in us upon which or in which to sink his accusations and other stumbling blocks

I see the gift here as what we bring to God...whether offerings or spiritual gifts He has given or any other part of us

Perhaps, the gifts we bring, become tarnished and tainted by not observing forgiveness...from the heart....

Why would Jesus speak of forgiveness this way if we were to exclude it believing it fell under the heading "law"?

Jesus seems to be giving new teaching here, IMO, if you take into context His ADDITION, as in 'you have heard it said...meaning the law...but He seems to be adding here or giving an interpretation that involves the heart and not just an act before a priest for any sin with the ascribed sacrifice

He is speaking of brothers and sisters..which indicates the relationships bettween us
Hope that makes sense...that's how I see it...or the short form anyway
Thank you very much. You helped open my eyes to something. A wonderful spirit you are.

Gods bless