Daniel Is Now Open

[eternally-gratefull]

Revelation 18


2 And he cried mightily[a] with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. [SUP]23 [/SUP]The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”

How many more times does God say this city will be violently destroyed. never to be restored as a city ever again?

 

[Bookends]

Oh you mean like many of the OT prophecies? Do you think Daniel understood who rome was? or even Greece?

Did he have to, He understood they where kingdoms and some of their characteristics, not all the details.

Prophesy of world events were always given centuries in advance. And revelation is speaking of things which occure at the end.

End of what, the world, I say no IT"S NOT! It is a revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His Servents - Things that MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE! It's the end of Jerusalem as they, the 1st Century saints new it and the end of the 4th Beast the Roman empire; and about hardships they have to endure.

Things that shortly must take place EG, and you talk about me spiritualizing.

So we would expect the things to occure at the end.

Your opinion.

Danile spoke of two romes. Not one, yet the first rome was in power at the time of Johns writings. People who understood the things of daniel would understand he spoke of the end. Even the disciples understood this (the time of your return)

Two Romes huh, I don't see it!

Revelation was written for everyone, Like the whole bible was. It will be as revelent to people in the time of Christs kingdom as the prophesies of daniel are to us today.

No, you are taking and will take the whole bible out of context when you say that. Most the books of the bible where write to a certain group of people in a certain epic of time (especially the prophetic ones) and the NT books (Gospels and epistles). You must understand who the book was written to, the culture at that time, the problems or successes of that time, and why the author said what he said regarding these things. Yes the bible was written for us, NOT TO US, so we can gleam spiritual truth and have some understand of our God and His salvation.

I disagree whole heartedly. Daniel was given interpretation of things he could not understand. (in fact all the major prophets were given this type of prophesy) This is not new in prophetic literature.

Well, we can't just dial him up and ask him can we...but Daniel knew Beast where nations and I believe he understood more then you think he did.

 

[Bookends]

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. [SUP]23 [/SUP]The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”

How many more times does God say this city will be violently destroyed. never to be restored as a city ever again?

Not to be restored as the City of God, or contain the glory she once had. Cities are often rebuild after destruction. We'll just have to wait and see, brother. I admire your persistence but I'm growing weary of this atm...I'll catch you later. When we met up later I'll gladdy admit to be wrong if it turns out that way, and laugh about it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/B][/COLOR]Did he have to, He understood they where kingdoms and some of their characteristics, not all the details.

And why would you think the people of the 1st century would think any different than John did. Especially since many of the things spoken of were impossible in the first century.

End of what,

The end of daniels prophesies. The end spoken of by Jesus in matt 24. he end which Paul spoke of in romans 11. They all fit.

the world,-/quote]

I never said it was the end of the world. Come now...

[QUOTE]

I say no IT"S NOT! It is a revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His Servents - Things that MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE! It's the end of Jerusalem as they, the 1st Century saints new it and the end of the 4th Beast the Roman empire; and about hardships they have to endure.

1. Jesus said behold I come quickly (same word) Has he come yet? so much for quickly meaning the first century.
2. the 4th empire did not end for a few centuries yet. We still have 4 A which is yet to come.
3. The hardships John spoke of will make the things which occured in 70 ad era look like a picnic. As jesus said, there will be great tribulation such as never been seen before 9 but more importantly. will never be seen after.

Things that shortly must take place EG, and you talk about me spiritualizing.

No. me interpreting scripture with scripture.


Revelation 3:11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown Your opinion.

Revelation 22:7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

Revelation 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me,

Revelation 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

Unless you think Jesus came in the first century, You must realise quickly may not be as you think. the same word is used in all cases, including yours.

your opinion

May be, Does not mean I am wrong

Two Romes huh, I don't see it!

Well that does not mean I am wrong.

There was the kingdom of iron. AND the kingdom of iron and clay. They were not the same, nore did the have the same characteristics. The rome of Christ time did NOT FIT the rome of Iron and clay

No, you are taking and will take the whole bible out of context when you say that. Most the books of the bible where write to a certain group of people in a certain epic of time (especially the prophetic ones) and the NT books (Gospels and epistles). You must understand who the book was written to, the culture at that time, the problems or successes of that time, and why the author said what he said regarding these things. Yes the bible was written for us, NOT TO US, so we can gleam spiritual truth and have some understand of our God and His salvation.

lol. the OT prophets wrote of things which would not occur for 100's of years. and maybe 1000s of years.

Don't hold yourself back. Your preventing yourself from looking at ALL possible interpretations.

Well, we can't just dial him up and ask him can we...but Daniel knew Beast where nations and I believe he understood more then you think he did.

Yeah, thats why God had to explain to him.. I think John understood more than you think he did also, including that fact that many or not all the things spoken to him could not happen in his day.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not to be restored as the City of God, or contain the glory she once had. Cities are often rebuild after destruction. We'll just have to wait and see, brother. I admire your persistence but I'm growing weary of this atm...I'll catch you later. When we met up later I'll gladdy admit to be wrong if it turns out that way, and laugh about it.[/QUOTE

lol. Not to be restored ever.. Now who is twisting and spiritualising??

 

[Bookends]

And why would you think the people of the 1st century would think any different than John did. Especially since many of the things spoken of were impossible in the first century.

Because they understood the OT better then most of, the NT wasn't compiled yet so that's mostly what they had. What was impossible?

The end of daniels prophesies. The end spoken of by Jesus in matt 24. he end which Paul spoke of in romans 11. They all fit.

Yes they all fit, but not for our future, but their future. EG, we can go round and round and not get anywhere, everything said has been said before. It's so obvious Matt 24 speaks of mostly the destruction of the temple, 70AD....And this generation shall not pass away until all these things take place. 40 years after Jesus said that Jerusalem fell, come on, it's so obvious.

1. Jesus said behold I come quickly (same word) Has he come yet? so much for quickly meaning the first century.
2. the 4th empire did not end for a few centuries yet. We still have 4 A which is yet to come.
3. The hardships John spoke of will make the things which occured in 70 ad era look like a picnic. As jesus said, there will be great tribulation such as never been seen before 9 but more importantly. will never be seen after.

I disagree, This tribulation is of the birth pains of the early Church and their persecution from Jewish and Romans. I don't how you can the NT and can't see how they suffered. To say it's going to happen again or be worst in the future is nothing but speculation and your assumption. Although I do think Christians will always see persecution until the Lord comes again, the second Advent.

No. me interpreting scripture with scripture.

Yeah, I claim the same thing EG.

Revelation 3:11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown Your opinion.

Revelation 22:7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

Revelation 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me,

Revelation 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.” Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

Unless you think Jesus came in the first century, You must realise quickly may not be as you think. the same word is used in all cases, including yours.

EG, their multiple meanings when God/Jesus says "He's coming" 1. coming in judgment, 2. coming to the believer upon Salvation, 3. coming with a reward (2 and 3 are similar) , and 4. coming as in the consummation of world, 2nd Advent, physical appearing. I'm sorry you can't see that and properly discern between them.

May be, Does not mean I am wrong

doesn't mean your right either. It's ok man, we all want to be right.

Well that does not mean I am wrong.

There was the kingdom of iron. AND the kingdom of iron and clay. They were not the same, nore did the have the same characteristics. The rome of Christ time did NOT FIT the rome of Iron and clay



lol. the OT prophets wrote of things which would not occur for 100's of years. and maybe 1000s of years.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Don't hold yourself back. Your preventing yourself from looking at ALL possible interpretations.

I have considered it, I sorta held your position before, but now reject it.

Yeah, thats why God had to explain to him.. I think John understood more than you think he did also, including that fact that many or not all the things spoken to him could not happen in his day.

Like what?

 

[Bookends]

Not to be restored as the City of God, or contain the glory she once had. Cities are often rebuild after destruction. We'll just have to wait and see, brother. I admire your persistence but I'm growing weary of this atm...I'll catch you later. When we met up later I'll gladdy admit to be wrong if it turns out that way, and laugh about it.[/QUOTE

lol. Not to be restored ever.. Now who is twisting and spiritualising??

When Jesus said my Kingdom is not of this world, doesn't that mean anything to you?