In my Post #3 response I listed 7 different passages of scripture where the Messiah Himself spoke words that show distinct differences between Him and His Father. I will now list a few reasons why holding this opinion in light of the scriptures given by inspiration of God to correct our thinking unto the mind of Christ Jesus our Lord, is dangerous to our growth in Him.
2Ti 3:16-17
(16) All scripture
is given by inspiration of God, and
is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17) That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2Co 10:5
(5) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Eph 4:14-16
(14) That we
henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men,
and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head,
even Christ:
(16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, makes increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Reason 1:
I have not been able to find where God our Father is ever revealed in scripture as God our Brother. Christ is our brother and because He created us He is also our Father. God is Father of All, even and especially Father of Christ. We who overcome are revealed to become joint-heirs with Christ and brethren because He, "the Son of man," Himself, likewise took part of the same sinful flesh as the children of Abraham, though He (Christ) was God of all (God the Father being excepted).
Rom 8:16-17
(16) The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
(17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with
him, that we may be also glorified together.
Heb 2:9-17
(9) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he
by the grace of God [please reference red words in John 3:16-18] should taste death for every man.
(10) For it became him, for whom
are all things, and by whom
are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
(11)
For both he that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
(12) Saying,
I will declare your name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church
will I sing praise unto thee.
(13) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again,
Behold I and the children which God has given me.
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are
partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(16) For verily he took not on
him the nature of angels;
but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
(17) Wherefore in all things
it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful
high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Reason 2:
If we truly love and hope in Christ Jesus The Lord of Glory,
we should be ever so careful not to hold opinions that insinuate that the scriptures which record His testimony show Him to be a liar.
For then He could not be without spot or blemish, The Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world. Please refer back to my response in Post #3 and the few additional scriptures below.
Joh 8:13-18
(13) The Pharisees therefore said unto him, You bear record of yourself; your record is not true.
(14) Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself,
yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but you cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
(15) You judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
(16) And yet if I judge, my judgment is true:
for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
(17) It is also written in your law,
that the testimony of two men is true.
(18)
I am one that bear witness of myself, and
the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Joh 15:1-3
(1)
I am the true vine, and
my Father is the husbandman.
(2) Every branch in me that
bears not fruit he takes away: and every
branch that bears fruit,
he purges it,
that it may bring forth more fruit.
(3)
Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Surely Jesus Christ The Son of God did lie in the above statements that make us clean.
Joh 6:43-46
(43) Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
(44) No man can come to me,
except the Father which has sent me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.
(45) It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of the Father,
comes unto me.
(46)
Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is of God,
he has seen the Father.
There are many more scriptures, but if a person doesn't believe that Christ spoke true words concerning His Father then more scripture might not help, but I have labored in faith of Christ that it may help; and so I continue.
Reason 3:
There are multiple places in scripture old testament and new
where the inspired word leads us to envision both The Father and The Son of God in the same place at the same time. Those accounts should be used (I would think) to help establish our faith unless there are scriptures somewhere that clarify these visions to be understood in a different light (Please post them). There are more, but I just list a few from both testaments.
Gen 22:2-8
(2) And he said,
Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom thou love, and get thee into the land of Moriah;
and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
(6) And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid
it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
(7) And Isaac spoke unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here
am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where
is the lamb for a burnt offering?
(8) And Abraham said,
My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
John the baptizer announced the Lamb that God did provide (John 1:29, 36).
Dan 7:13-14
(13) I saw in the night visions, and, behold,
one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
(14) And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion
is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom
that which shall not be destroyed.
Psa 45:6-7
(6)
Your throne, O God, is forever and ever: the sceptre of your kingdom
is a right sceptre.
(7) Thou love righteousness, and hate wickedness:
therefore God,
your God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness above your fellows.
Act 2:29-35
(29) Men
and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
(30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him,
that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
(31) He seeing this before spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
(32)
This Jesus has God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
(33)
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted,
and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost,
he has shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
(34) For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he says himself,
The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou on my right hand,
(35)
Until I make your foes your footstool.
Act 7:52-56
(52) Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of
the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
(53)
Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
(54) When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with
their teeth.
(55) But Stephen, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God,
and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
(56) And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened,
and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Heb 1:8-9
(8)
But unto the Son he says, Your throne, O God,
is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness
is the sceptre of your kingdom.
(9) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity;
therefore God,
even your God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness above your fellows.
Rev 4:2
(2) And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven,
and one sat on the throne.
Rev 5:1, 5
(1) And I saw
in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
(5) And one of the elders says unto me, Weep not: behold,
the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6-10
(6) And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders,
stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
(7)
And he came and took the book out of
the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
(8) And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four
and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
(9)
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof:
for thou were slain, and hast
redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
(10) And hast made us
unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 5:13-14
(13) And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power,
be unto
him that sits upon the throne, and
unto the Lamb forever and ever.
(14) And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four
and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that lives forever and ever.
You will notice in Revelations 4:8, 11 they praise and worship God our Father who is not a man**, and then a new song for the Lamb that was slain and then they worship them both that live forever and ever. **See Num 23:19, 1Sa 15:29, Job 9:32, Hos 11:9**
Many more reasons:
There are many more reasons and some of the most important of which I will most likely start new threads on if the will of God be so.
I pray that this post at least gives food for thought as my only purpose for inquiry is that the body of Christ might be edified, which we as disciplined learners of Him are encouraged to do (Rom 14:19).
Please post scripture as to why you hold this opinion.
One additional question, in light of the below scripture, why would
Jesus Christ our King have to then turn over the Kingdom to
His Father if He didn't exist? The story could have been over with death and hell being swallowed up. And why would the inspired scriptures
make manifest that HE, The Father (
Who Christ said is greater than He is, though
Christ is also God)
is obviously excepted.
1Co 15:24-28
(24) Then
comes the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom
to God, even the Father;
when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
(25)
For he must reign,
till he has put all enemies under his feet.
(26) The last enemy
that shall be destroyed
is death.
(27)
For he has put all things under his feet. But
when he says all things are
put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things
under him.
(28) And when all things shall be subdued
unto him,
then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
As believers in Christ Jesus and God our Father through the revelation of the Holy Spirit
we should not hold opinions that contradict the Gospel message recorded in scripture. There are so many things still to cover but this response is very long already.
Please post scripture as to why you hold this opinion keeping in mind 1 John 2:22-24.
AndTheWordWasGOD