Do you agree with the doctrine that says JESUS died spiritually?
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K
I would like to know more about it to, but then again probably not because that sounds like false doctrine.
Jesus could not have died spiritually, for the scriptures say He conquered death.
He did die in the flesh on the cross, for that had to be done to fulfill prophecy for the forgiveness of our sins.
We die in flesh to, but we can overcome spiritual death by putting our faith and obedience in Him.
Jesus could not have died spiritually, for the scriptures say He conquered death.
He did die in the flesh on the cross, for that had to be done to fulfill prophecy for the forgiveness of our sins.
We die in flesh to, but we can overcome spiritual death by putting our faith and obedience in Him.
There is a revived movement about it. A woman in one of our Master's Table food ministries got up and preached it. Unfortunately the servers didn't know it was false doctrine, so they let her rant. That ministry is about feeding the homeless, so the Christians there were not prepared for such things. The center of that false teaching is that Jesus was a co-sinner with all us other sinners. This is popular among addicts, mostly homeless who want to pass the blame of their misery onto God, as though God is forcing them to suffer shame like Jesus did. BAD stuff!
The truth of it is in the Lamb of God. Under the law an innocent lamb was offered up for sin sacrifice, and a
"scape goat" followed. It had to be perfect in every way. Of course, no sheeps' lamb would be a sinner. But it's body and blood was required to atone for sin. Jesus was the absolute perfect Lamb of God, sinless by necessity, acceptable to the Father to deal with sin once and for all, for all believers of the gospel of Christ.
On the cross, like the Jews did of old placing their hands on the scape goat, putting upon it their sins, Father God put our sins upon Jesus. The goat then was let out of the city to wander and supposedly perish with their sins. It wasn't Jesus, or that goat, that was separated from God, but sin was. Since Jesus temporarily "became" sin for all of us on that cross, the Father had to turn His face from Jesus. That didn't last long, for by the time Jesus rose from the grave that was settled with the Father God. I am among those who believe Jesus left those sins in that part of Hades where He preached to the captives there who were eligible to be led out by Jesus. They are the ones who rose from their graves in Matthew 27:51-53 (KJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; [SUP]52 [/SUP] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [SUP]53 [/SUP] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
The truth of it is in the Lamb of God. Under the law an innocent lamb was offered up for sin sacrifice, and a
"scape goat" followed. It had to be perfect in every way. Of course, no sheeps' lamb would be a sinner. But it's body and blood was required to atone for sin. Jesus was the absolute perfect Lamb of God, sinless by necessity, acceptable to the Father to deal with sin once and for all, for all believers of the gospel of Christ.
On the cross, like the Jews did of old placing their hands on the scape goat, putting upon it their sins, Father God put our sins upon Jesus. The goat then was let out of the city to wander and supposedly perish with their sins. It wasn't Jesus, or that goat, that was separated from God, but sin was. Since Jesus temporarily "became" sin for all of us on that cross, the Father had to turn His face from Jesus. That didn't last long, for by the time Jesus rose from the grave that was settled with the Father God. I am among those who believe Jesus left those sins in that part of Hades where He preached to the captives there who were eligible to be led out by Jesus. They are the ones who rose from their graves in Matthew 27:51-53 (KJV)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; [SUP]52 [/SUP] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [SUP]53 [/SUP] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
James spent many words pointing out our part in the spiritual world.
James 2:26 (KJV) [SUP]26 [/SUP] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
[HR][/HR] James 4:5 (KJV) [SUP]5 [/SUP] Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
There are four spirits man has to do with. The spirit given him at creation, that which made man in the likeness of God.
That which is made alive, which is dead because of sin.
That which is of Satan, the spirit of rebellion which rules man while spiritually dead in sin.
That of the indwelling Holy Spirit, the spirit of Christ.
James 2:26 (KJV) [SUP]26 [/SUP] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
[HR][/HR] James 4:5 (KJV) [SUP]5 [/SUP] Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
There are four spirits man has to do with. The spirit given him at creation, that which made man in the likeness of God.
That which is made alive, which is dead because of sin.
That which is of Satan, the spirit of rebellion which rules man while spiritually dead in sin.
That of the indwelling Holy Spirit, the spirit of Christ.
P
Saddens me to see that you don't understand the cross. Christ didn't die on the cross spiritually, that is ridiculous! Why did He die, EG? You don't understand that? He died to redeem our souls, not His. What was it about His death that did that, EG? His blood being shed. He paid the price for our souls, not His, and He did it with His blood, not His spirit. I am not going to sit here and go thru the myriad of verses that explain that, but I would certainly encourage you to study up on the subject.
Fixed it for you. Mercy, EG, that is such a basic grammar mistake. And I'll tell you this also my friend, it's rare that I don't think when I post.
Fixed it for you. Mercy, EG, that is such a basic grammar mistake. And I'll tell you this also my friend, it's rare that I don't think when I post.
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J
Would have to be that fool to argue with that!
Hmm, says I,
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
So, that we've established these verses, I would simply like somebody to show any place in the Bible where it states any spirit died.
Hmm, says I,
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
So, that we've established these verses, I would simply like somebody to show any place in the Bible where it states any spirit died.
Interesting reading here:
Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
I have heard of the JESUS died spiritually doctrine but I don't really know much about it can anyone fill me in on this doctrine?
I know that the bible says that we are weak because of the flesh and I know that Paul said who shall deliver me from the body of this death.
Eternally-grateful replied:
the penalty of sin is spiritual death, We are born dead, and must be born again
in order for Jesus to take our penalty on himself. he must suffer that same death, or he did not make the payment for sin.
Dcon.......says:
Quote Originally Posted by Jabberjaw View Post
According to your theology sinners go to heaven, do you believe someone that sins is spiritually dead? do you believe that spiritually dead people will go to heaven? You must reject that or claim Christ and the cross were not necessary, you cannot do both.
Dcon's response:
I suggest you study the bible as your theology is like a fish out of water.....here let me clue you in
1. The spirit that is born AGAIN of God does not sin, is eternally secure in Jesus, goes to heaven upon death and will be brought back to get a BODY THAT IS CHANGED and one LIKE UNTO JESUS after HIS resurrection!
Another one from Dcon..........
Quote Originally Posted by p_rehbein View Post
So, D........
you admit that you are not sinless? Good.........now, when you "occasionally" sin, what do you do about it?
Dcon's response.....
Yes I believe a person who has become a partaker in Christ and received the Holy Spirit is saved...eternally sealed and secure in Christ as it is the spirit that is born again, eternally secure in Christ, does not sin and cannot fall.....and for those who argue...it is BOUND IN A BODY of SIN that is not subject unto the law of God and neither can be. The SPIRIT is willing, but the flesh is weak....Sealed by the spirit, in the Father's hand and in the Son's hand and Ecclesiastes chapter 3 states clearly...
WHATSOEVER GOD does it is ETERNAL...nothing added, nothing taken away from it and GOD does it this so men will FEAR him!
I do what I am supposed to do Paul....it is my SPIRIT that has been born again, does NOT SIN and is eternally secure before the Father based upon the perfect faith and justification of JESUS, BUT when I fail and SIN because of my BODY that is SOLD UNDER SIN, is not SUBJECT unto the LAW of God and cannot be I go to the FATHER dia CHRIST and seeks forgiveness...HAVING NEVER lost my ETERNAL, EVERLASTING SALVATION through the whole process!
Quote Originally Posted by seed_time_harvest View Post
I have heard of the JESUS died spiritually doctrine but I don't really know much about it can anyone fill me in on this doctrine?
I know that the bible says that we are weak because of the flesh and I know that Paul said who shall deliver me from the body of this death.
Eternally-grateful replied:
the penalty of sin is spiritual death, We are born dead, and must be born again
in order for Jesus to take our penalty on himself. he must suffer that same death, or he did not make the payment for sin.
Dcon.......says:
Quote Originally Posted by Jabberjaw View Post
According to your theology sinners go to heaven, do you believe someone that sins is spiritually dead? do you believe that spiritually dead people will go to heaven? You must reject that or claim Christ and the cross were not necessary, you cannot do both.
Dcon's response:
I suggest you study the bible as your theology is like a fish out of water.....here let me clue you in
1. The spirit that is born AGAIN of God does not sin, is eternally secure in Jesus, goes to heaven upon death and will be brought back to get a BODY THAT IS CHANGED and one LIKE UNTO JESUS after HIS resurrection!
Another one from Dcon..........
Quote Originally Posted by p_rehbein View Post
So, D........
you admit that you are not sinless? Good.........now, when you "occasionally" sin, what do you do about it?
Dcon's response.....
Yes I believe a person who has become a partaker in Christ and received the Holy Spirit is saved...eternally sealed and secure in Christ as it is the spirit that is born again, eternally secure in Christ, does not sin and cannot fall.....and for those who argue...it is BOUND IN A BODY of SIN that is not subject unto the law of God and neither can be. The SPIRIT is willing, but the flesh is weak....Sealed by the spirit, in the Father's hand and in the Son's hand and Ecclesiastes chapter 3 states clearly...
WHATSOEVER GOD does it is ETERNAL...nothing added, nothing taken away from it and GOD does it this so men will FEAR him!
I do what I am supposed to do Paul....it is my SPIRIT that has been born again, does NOT SIN and is eternally secure before the Father based upon the perfect faith and justification of JESUS, BUT when I fail and SIN because of my BODY that is SOLD UNDER SIN, is not SUBJECT unto the LAW of God and cannot be I go to the FATHER dia CHRIST and seeks forgiveness...HAVING NEVER lost my ETERNAL, EVERLASTING SALVATION through the whole process!
E
And how did he do this? what was required for him to redeem our souls? was it not to suffer what our punishment is?
What is rediculous is the fact you have no clue what redemption means.
Study? sounds like your the one who needs to study.
Before I came to Christ, I was separated from God, Spiritually dead, unable to have a relationship with God because of sin in my life.
If I died spiritually because of my sin, Jesus would die spiritually when my sin was placed on his body. That is why God the father and HS forsook (literally turned their back) on him, because they are UNABLE TO LOOK ON SIN.
What is rediculous is the fact you have no clue what redemption means.
Study? sounds like your the one who needs to study.
Before I came to Christ, I was separated from God, Spiritually dead, unable to have a relationship with God because of sin in my life.
If I died spiritually because of my sin, Jesus would die spiritually when my sin was placed on his body. That is why God the father and HS forsook (literally turned their back) on him, because they are UNABLE TO LOOK ON SIN.
E
No..............simple enough..........
Being "reborn," a "new man" simply means a "radical change" in ones life/heart/spirit.
(gonna watch the comments close here..........because they will show much to many......AND they will be recorded for future "blow-back!"
)
Being "reborn," a "new man" simply means a "radical change" in ones life/heart/spirit.
(gonna watch the comments close here..........because they will show much to many......AND they will be recorded for future "blow-back!"
)
hm, not sure what super spiritual religious book you study
But my bible says I was dead in sin, and HE made alive in Christ.
it is actually quite simple, if people get out of Gods way and listen to thim.
Okay . . . I may be stupid here but Christ actually died - he actually shed his blood for the remission of our sins. He actually rose from the dead after 3 days in the grave . . . or else I have no hope.
Am I missing something?
Hope this doesn't go to far to fast for me to catch up - I have to get to bed - have to be up at 2:30am in the morning to get ready for work.
Am I missing something?
Hope this doesn't go to far to fast for me to catch up - I have to get to bed - have to be up at 2:30am in the morning to get ready for work.