Dogs Returning To Their Vomit

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Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,089
5,429
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#21
thats based on those who love God

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

…. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13, 28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What is it to love him ?

If ye love me, keep my commandments. …He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:15, 21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Actually, it's based on the faithfulness of God...He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ...Philippians 1:6.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,298
26,338
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#22
Right. If a person is Spiritually dead, they're dead. There is no choice to be made. If a person can make a choice, they're not dead, physically or Spiritually.
Jesus said the day is coming and has arrived, when the dead shall hear His voice, and those who hear will live. I have a couple of panels for this but I'm on my phone so don't have access to them right now... it's in John somewhere... So apparently the Dead can hear, and if they couldn't, I suppose we would all be Lost because it is Holy Spirit of God that convicts us of sin, bringing us to repentance in the first place.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,684
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#23
Jesus said the day is coming and has arrived, when the dead shall hear His voice, and those who hear will live. I have a couple of panels for this but I'm on my phone so don't have access to them right now... it's in John somewhere... So apparently the Dead can hear, and if they couldn't, I suppose we would all be Lost because it is Holy Spirit of God that convicts us of sin, bringing us to repentance in the first place.
Ahhh . . . I have found that the Bible reports that a person is Drawn by God, because they cannot draw themselves out of captivity. If a person could release themselves from such captivity, they're not really being held captive. Jesus setting His Children free is what it means to be Spiritually awakened. Gotta have the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ if a person is to wake up, or . . . Live.

Colossians 2:11, 13 NLT - 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. ... 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins."

Colossians 2:9-15 - Provides the most complete description of the Purpose, Work, and Effect of Christ. Process the entire Bible through these Seven glorious verses . . . a person will walk away with an entirely new understanding of the Bible. Jesus died on the cross for us; we all should be willing to study God's Word in a very intense way.

Have a great day, and I hope the phone call was a massive success! :D
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,518
1,416
113
#24
How does one become unsaved? How does one born from above become unborn from above? How is one separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus? Who can pluck one from the hand of the Father or the Son?
I‘d say the Elect will never be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Check these verses out, though, concerning the apostasy of the end times in 2 Thessalonians.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-15
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,721
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#25
John 5:21
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes....\0/...
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,852
5,163
113
#26
Actually, it's based on the faithfulness of God...He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ...Philippians 1:6.
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so then those that are lost brother is that because Gods lack of faithfulness to them ? Why aren’t they saved is it Gods fault for those lost since it’s Gods Will they weren’t saved and never had a chance ?

Doesnt God will that all Men be saved by coming to a knowledge of the truth ? So that they can get free from satans Will ?

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yet Gods Will is for some to be saved and others to be lost because it’s all predetermined we can’t change it …..I love you brother have really enjoyed the discussions over the past couple years !! God loves you and may he bless you indeed !!
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,852
5,163
113
#27
John 5:21
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes....\0/...
“For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.

He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:21-25, 28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,089
5,429
113
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#28
I‘d say the Elect will never be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Check these verses out, though, concerning the apostasy of the end times in 2 Thessalonians.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-15
Good verses.
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,607
551
113
#29
Amplified Bible
Like a dog that returns to his vomit Is a fool who repeats his foolishness.

This is talking about sinners ----who's wicked ways may stop for a time but like a dog who forgets the burden of how his vomiting made him feel the dog returns to his vomit ----so the wicked will return to their sinful ways ----
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,852
5,163
113
#30
“and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,

for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God ( that’s you brother ) may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know that I annoy people with all the scripture alllll the time lol 😂😂😂 I know you weren’t replying to me but really felt the lord lead me to share that verse with you particularly so you understand the motivations of those “Bible thumpers” out here

I’d never oppose you in any way I really genuinely respect and care for you in Christ and I’m old just a fool whoch I’ve confessed and which also is evident the foolishness I repeatedly have mentioned

But I’m limited in any impact I can make in the church rn and even though I’m an old fool I do also really believe the Bible’s words are what lights our path

i apologize brother if I’ve offended you it truly was not my intention.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,089
5,429
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#31
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so then those that are lost brother is that because Gods lack of faithfulness to them ? Why aren’t they saved is it Gods fault for those lost since it’s Gods Will they weren’t saved and never had a chance ?

Doesnt God will that all Men be saved by coming to a knowledge of the truth ? So that they can get free from satans Will ?

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yet Gods Will is for some to be saved and others to be lost because it’s all predetermined we can’t change it …..I love you brother have really enjoyed the discussions over the past couple years !! God loves you and may he bless you indeed !!
The feeling is mutual brother.
You introduced another topic. The first was dealing with security for the believer. I believe those in Christ are eternally secure, but not because left to himself man wouldn't mess things up,but because God is faithful to preserve His children in Christ. I believe when God sets His affections on His own, He does all that is necessary to have an eternal relationship with them. I'm happy to address what it is to be in Christ and all that that entails, and how it relates to what I just shared.
Your last post introduces the concept of God's unwillingness for any to perish, and you imply that I somehow don't believe this. I do believe it. But at the same time, none of this precludes God from coming to one and not another. Do you have a problem that God made a nation out of Israel and dealt with them almost exclusively for a significant portion of history? How was God demonstrating His desire for all to be saved during this time?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,455
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#32
How does one become unsaved? How does one born from above become unborn from above? How is one separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus? Who can pluck one from the hand of the Father or the Son?
By coming to disbelieve Jesus.. By no longer having faith that the Atonement of Jesus covers one's sins..

No one can pluck you from the Lords Hand.. But You.. Yourself can cast away your salvation by rejecting the things that once had you saved..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,455
3,503
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#33
Sorry but this is a faulty interpretation.

We are SHEEP not dogs and pigs.

We don’t become sheep and then morph into a pig or dog.

Those people had the KNOWLEDGE of Jesus Christ but were never truly born again.
They where saved because as it says in the passage They where once clean escaped..

{18} For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
15,089
5,429
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#34
By coming to disbelieve Jesus.. By no longer having faith that the Atonement of Jesus covers one's sins..

No one can pluck you from the Lords Hand.. But You.. Yourself can cast away your salvation by rejecting the things that once had you saved..
Wouldn't that be you plucking yourself out of Jesus' hand? Didn't he say no one can do this? Isn't the individual himself included in no one?
Also, Romans 8 says nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ? Wouldn't that mean someone would have to take themselves out of Christ? Being in Christ is something God does and is a spiritual activity, right? If you can't put yourself into Christ, how is it one can take themselves out?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,455
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113
#35
I see. So you're saying that these people received the Circumcision of Christ, but then they made the decision to become evil, and the Curse of the Lord was reapplied, thus such a person, a dog, returns to their own vomit?
You're using a few religous jargon terms here "" Circuncision of Christ"" and ""Curse of the Lord"" It's best to try and speak using plain speech sometimes because often religious jargon means one thing to one person and means something different to another person..

I am saying that a person can believe Jesus and accept the Atonement of the LORD Jesus and be in a state of salvation.. But later come to disbelieve Jesus and no longer believe that the atonement of Jesus pays the penalty for their sins.. They can fall away to disbelief.. Or they can fall away to deceptive false doctrines..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,455
3,503
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#36
Wouldn't that be you plucking yourself out of Jesus' hand? Didn't he say no one can do this? Isn't the individual himself included in no one?
Also, Romans 8 says nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ? Wouldn't that mean someone would have to take themselves out of Christ? Being in Christ is something God does and is a spiritual activity, right? If you can't put yourself into Christ, how is it one can take themselves out?
Plucking out implies a third party doing it... Like satan plucking you out.. The scriptures are stating no one else can pluck you out..
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,994
8,696
113
#37
They where saved because as it says in the passage They where once clean escaped..

{18} For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
Yes. Like the guys that were cleaned of demons yet weren't filled with the Holy Spirit, and then tons more demons inhabited them BECAUSE they were clean, but empty.

An empty vessel is hardly better than a dirty one.

We not only have to be cleaned, BUT also filled, and sealed, with the Holy Spirit.

That's becoming a born again child of God. Or sheep if you will.

Remember a DOG and PIG go back to it's vomit. Not a dog that became a sheep and then became a dog or pig again.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,071
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#38
Ok, so this is the first time I've ever cared to think deeply about this passage. I'm wondering what ya'll think of what I think this is about:

2 Peter 2:22 KJV - 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I think, and I could surely be wrong here, that this passage is stating that those who claim to be Pure, Righteous, and Holy, yet are fake, will prove that they have not been Transformed by Christ, for these dogs return to their own vomit. If they had transformed into a New Creation, it would be impossible for the New Life to return to the vomit of something it no longer is. Ultimately, this process is pointing to the Circumcision of Christ . . . the fulcrum of our Faith.
Those who are truly born of God are partakers of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4) They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,737
838
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#39
You are posting a verse in isolation.. You cannot build your View of the Word of God based on isolated verses.. you need to read things in context.. which means finding out where this passage starts and reading the entire portion of scripture:: In context:::

(2 Peter 2:17-22) "These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. {18} For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. {19} While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. {20} For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. {21} For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. {22} But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

This passage is talking about people who where once saved but who fell under the influence of false preachers.. Messengers masquerading as being from The LORD but who where spreading doctrines of demons.. Doctrines so false that they undermine the saving Gospel truth that once had these people escaped from the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ...
So you're saying it means that some that Jesus took up in His hands were snatched out of them by false teachers? Is that really what you think it means?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,071
13,083
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#40
Amplified Bible
Like a dog that returns to his vomit Is a fool who repeats his foolishness.

This is talking about sinners ----who's wicked ways may stop for a time but like a dog who forgets the burden of how his vomiting made him feel the dog returns to his vomit ----so the wicked will return to their sinful ways ----
That just goes to show you that moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration.