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Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#41
Mar 1, 2022
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#41
John146 said:
If you were in Christ before the foundation of the world, then there never could have been a time when your were a child of wrath.

Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
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By nature...is the key phrase. All come into the world with a fallen nature. That's why we become partakers of the divine nature and no longer live after the flesh.
Wheat and tares look alot alike, but their ends are very different.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#42
Jul 13, 2021
3,348
496
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#42
FollowerofShiloh said:
Roger adheres to a doctrine called 5 Graces.

But believes God does not give Grace to basically 80% of His OWN Offspring known as His Creation.

Ever heard anything more ridiculous than that? To believe in something that only happens to less than 20% of Creation?

The doctrine literally sounds like a drunk man in a bar trying to preach repentance.
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I do? Really? News to me.
So where does the 80% come from since you know the doctrine that I follow (but which I don't follow)
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#43
Mar 1, 2022
15,400
5,510
113
62
#43
FollowerofShiloh said:
Roger adheres to a doctrine called 5 Graces.

But believes God does not give Grace to basically 80% of His OWN Offspring known as His Creation.

Ever heard anything more ridiculous than that? To believe in something that only happens to less than 20% of Creation?

The doctrine literally sounds like a drunk man in a bar trying to preach repentance.
Click to expand...
Where do you get 80-20?
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#44
Jan 24, 2024
3,189
546
113
#44
rogerg said:
I do? Really? News to me.
So where does the 80% come from since you know the doctrine that I follow (but which I don't follow)
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Only 20% of the worlds population claim to be Christian. By your doctrine that means 20% are elected to be Christian and 80% for hell.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#46
Jul 13, 2021
3,348
496
83
#46
John146 said:
If you were in Christ before the foundation of the world, then there never could have been a time when your were a child of wrath.

Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Click to expand...
Chosen from before the foundation of the world. We all come into this world dead in sin- from Adam and Eve's fall - and remain in it, unless and until becoming born again.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#47
Jul 13, 2021
3,348
496
83
#47
FollowerofShiloh said:
Only 20% of the worlds population claim to be Christian. By your doctrine that means 20% are elected to be Christian and 80% for hell.
Click to expand...
Wrong
You shouldn't just pull stuff out of the air.

[Rev 7:9 KJV] 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#48
Jan 24, 2024
3,189
546
113
#48
rogerg said:
Wrong
You shouldn't just pull stuff out of the air.

[Rev 7:9 KJV] 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
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20% of todays population is 2 billion which is a great multitude.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#49
Jan 13, 2016
16,742
3,555
113
#49
Cameron143 said:
By nature...is the key phrase. All come into the world with a fallen nature. That's why we become partakers of the divine nature and no longer live after the flesh.
Wheat and tares look alot alike, but their ends are very different.
Click to expand...
Impossible to be a child of wrath in Christ.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#50
Jan 13, 2016
16,742
3,555
113
#50
rogerg said:
Chosen from before the foundation of the world. We all come into this world dead in sin- from Adam and Eve's fall - and remain in it, unless and until becoming born again.
Click to expand...
Nope, you were eluding that the elect were in Christ before the foundation of the world.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#53
Mar 1, 2022
15,400
5,510
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#53
FollowerofShiloh said:
Only 20% of the worlds population claim to be Christian. By your doctrine that means 20% are elected to be Christian and 80% for hell.
Click to expand...
Your eschatology leads you to believe that this is all there is. Heaven will be populated with a number that no man can number. How high can you count?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#54
Mar 1, 2022
15,400
5,510
113
62
#54
John146 said:
Impossible to be a child of wrath in Christ.
Click to expand...
They aren't children of wrath. They only appeared to be before they were saves. It says as others in verse 3, not are others.

You may not believe in election as some others do, but this is a horrible proof text for your argument.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#57
Jan 24, 2024
3,189
546
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#57
Cameron143 said:
Your eschatology leads you to believe that this is all there is. Heaven will be populated with a number that no man can number. How high can you count?
Click to expand...
We can count beyond quadrillion which is million to billion to trillion to quadrillion and beyond. I doubt a trillion people ever lived.
 
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