Explain these 2 verses.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
F

forsha

Guest
#21
Christ is able to save every man (Heb 2:9) but cannot without man doing his own part in salvation.

So it is the sense that Christ died for every man that Christ is the Saviour of the world, but man must do his part in believing to actually be saved. If man does not do his part in believing, he will be lost but that is not a failure on Christ's part for He still died for every man, it's a failure on the part of man.
He died for only those that God gave him, John 6:39. The natural man, void of the Holy Spirit, will not, and indeed can not, discern spiritually things. Christ's offering for the sins of those that God gave him was not offered to man for his acceptance, but to God for his acceptance.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#22
Perhaps this analogy will fail on some level, but think of it like this:

If a cure for terminal cancer was found and somebody with terminal cancer refused the cure, then they would die of cancer. Similarly, although a cure for sin has been provided through Christ's redemptive work, if somebody refuses the same, then they will die in their sins.
So, God wants all mankind to be saved eternally, but he does not get his wants because man stops him from doing so. Is that what you are saying? Dan 4:35 - God has his way with the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of earth, and none can stay his hand. It is alarming that man wants, so bad, to take the credit for his own salvation instead of giving the honor and praise to God for his grace to the depraved man.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#23
Christ is able to save every man (Heb 2:9) but cannot without man doing his own part in salvation.

So it is the sense that Christ died for every man that Christ is the Saviour of the world, but man must do his part in believing to actually be saved. If man does not do his part in believing, he will be lost but that is not a failure on Christ's part for He still died for every man, it's a failure on the part of man.
The "every man" in Heb 2:9, is restricted to only those that God gave to his Son (John 6:39).
 
F

forsha

Guest
#24
One thing to keep in mind is that the Lord will not violate a persons will. Nobody is forced into salvation. We also always have to remember that salvation is not simply a clearing away of sin, but more importantly it is a "relationship with God", not unlike the love relationship between a husband and wife. Even at the end of this age there will be a divine wedding between redeemed man and Christ.

The bible can be seen as a divine romance, where God is romancing man, verses forcing man into this relationship. Yes, there is scripture that allows one to make an argument that we are chosen and predestinated and thus we have no say in the matter. Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because we are "chosen" that we forfeit our free will. What kind of loving relationship would it be if we were all forced into it with no regard for our own will.
It will always amaze me how far man will go to claim the praise and honor for his eternal salvation and not give God the praise and honor. Dan 4:35, God has his way with the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#25
I believe the intent here is that Jesus death on the cross paid the penalty for SIN---ALL SIN.

Each person, to benefit from this payment, must confess and repent of his/her sin and acknowledge Jesus as Lord (owner) of their life.

The only thing that can send a person to Hell is rejecting Jesus' provision for their sin and His claims on their life.
If Jesus truly died for the sins of all mankind, which I do not believe, and washed them as white as snow, how could that paid for sin keep him from heaven, so, did Jesus die for the sins of all people and his blood was not effective enough to cover the sins? John 6:39, says that Jesus died only for those that God gave him, and all of them will live with him in heaven, without the loss of even one. Jesus's offering on the cross was not an offering to man, but an offering to God.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#26
The bible speaks of GOd's will in various ways:

1) decretive will, this is where what God decrees will for certain come about as God decreed the world/universe into existence and nothing could stop what God decrees.

2) God's permissive will speaks about the things God permits/allows to happen

3) God's preceptive will, as used in 2 Pet 3:9 which shows what God desires/wishes men will do. If God decreed all men be saved then all men would for certain be saved, but God did not decree that. God WISHES all men would use their free will and choose to come to repentance and be saved. God does not always get what He desires/wishes with men, Mt 23:37.
You are misunderstanding 1 Cor 2:14. The natural man (as we all were) will not, and indeed, can not discern spiritually things, so, man in that state, will not use his free will to choose to come to repentance and be saved.
 
F

forsha

Guest
#27
The bible speaks of GOd's will in various ways:

1) decretive will, this is where what God decrees will for certain come about as God decreed the world/universe into existence and nothing could stop what God decrees.

2) God's permissive will speaks about the things God permits/allows to happen

3) God's preceptive will, as used in 2 Pet 3:9 which shows what God desires/wishes men will do. If God decreed all men be saved then all men would for certain be saved, but God did not decree that. God WISHES all men would use their free will and choose to come to repentance and be saved. God does not always get what He desires/wishes with men, Mt 23:37.
In 2 Pet 3:9, Peter is speaking to his brethren who have obtained like precious faith (2 Pet 1:1). Peter is giving a warning, including himself, by saying "us-ward", when they sin, to repent from that sin, so they will not lose(perish) there fellowship with God.