I Thessalonians chapter 1 - end.

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nathan3

Guest
#21
And has far as two bodies are concerned Paul did teach this. And that , there would also be a instant, change, upon Christ return to this earth at the Last Trump I Corinthians 15: 49- end . ( The last trump is the seventh Revelation 11 : 15-17 )


1 Corinthians 15

King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#22
Sorry I cant continue this here, I might talk some in the chat rooms, to give my hands a rest from the keyboard.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#23
Good thing we dont have to guess at these things, because Paul pinned the time, to the last Trump Christ returns in. Christ in Mark 13, gave 7 signs that would take place just prior to His return.

Revelation 1:1 that you quoted, throws some people,
because they dont take into consideration Revelation 1:10.
There are five other NT writers who express the same notion.

The view is not based on just John.

If they expressly had that concern about life after death, where was that written? One thing they were saying; Paul reported, was that some of them did not believe in life after death at all ( 1 Cor 15:12 ).
No, 1Co 15:12 states they did not believe in a resurrection.
No resurrection does not mean the departed saints are not alive with Christ now.

The spirits of all the saints whose bodies have died are alive with Christ now
even without a resurrection of their bodies.

Paul does not state there was no belief in life after death, he states there was no belief in resurrection.

There is no mention of rising from graves in 1st nor 2nd Thessalonians .So I will have to disagree there with you.
What Paul did say, was, that those that have died, are already there,
Read it again.
Its grammatical construction does not allow that.

". . .the dead in Christ will rise first (nb: before the rapture)." (1Th 4:16)

"Will" is future tense.

The resurrection of the saints who had already died at the time of Paul's writing
would not be stated in the future tense, if they were already there, had already risen.

Your presentation of 1 & 2Th and 1Co 15 is based in fatal errors.

1 & 2Th present a rapture of the total number of redeemed at the second coming,

and 1Co 15 does not present immaterial, non-physical resurrection bodies.
 
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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#24
And has far as two bodies are concerned Paul did teach this. And that ,
there would also be a instant, change, upon Christ return to this earth at the Last Trump
I Corinthians 15: 49- end . ( The last trump is the seventh Revelation 11 : 15-17 )
Yes, not all will sleep (die), some will be alive when Jesus returns (1Co 15:51).
Those who are alive when Jesus returns will experience an instant change from their
natural (sinful, weak, corruptible) physical bodies to their
spiritual (sinless/glorious, powerful, incorruptible) physical resurrection bodies.

And those who are not alive, will rise from their graves with resurrection bodies.

Then the total number of the redeemed will ascend to meet Jesus in the clouds of the air
to return to earth with him in a parousia.
 
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Kerry

Guest
#25
Sorry Elin , but biblically thats wrong. Sinners will survive the trib. Not once will you find that all humankind is eradicated. They will be given 100 years to repent and most will. But after the 1,000 year reign, Satan is released again. Why, because children are born that have never been tempted. That would make God unrighteous and He goes out of His way to prove His righteousness. People will go in league with him and try once more to overthrow Jesus. They must be in flesh otherwise this is impossible. They will be defeated and then The father will transfer His headquarters to Earth in a city that 1500 miles wide and 1500 miles long and 1500 miles tall. Thats bible folks.
 
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Kerry

Guest
#26
Anyway, if you could figure it out, which you cannot, Then you would write a book and sell it for 19.99 . But, many would buy it. It's a shame but the gospel is for sale, but wait, there is more, if you act now, they will throw in some miracle water from the rock that moses struck. The fact is the cross, you don't need a book, you don't need details, you just need the cross. Here are the details, you are a sinner and Christ died for you that you may be saved and that cross also justifies you and sanctifies you as long as your faith is in the cross and nothing that you can do(law). Law glorifies flesh, the cross glorifies God.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#27
Sorry Elin , but biblically thats wrong. Sinners will survive the trib. Not once will you find that all humankind is eradicated. They will be given 100 years to repent and most will. But after the 1,000 year reign, Satan is released again. Why, because children are born that have never been tempted. That would make God unrighteous and He goes out of His way to prove His righteousness. People will go in league with him and try once more to overthrow Jesus. They must be in flesh otherwise this is impossible. They will be defeated and then The father will transfer His headquarters to Earth in a city that 1500 miles wide and 1500 miles long and 1500 miles tall. Thats bible folks.
That is all based in uncertain interpretation of unfulfilled symbolic prophetic riddles, which interpretations do not agree with the NT word of God.
 
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Kerry

Guest
#28
Is the cross uncertain interpretation? I guess to many it is. Dang I need a book and some trinket to throw in. I would be rich. But, I am rich and have gold that most know not off.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#29
Is the cross uncertain interpretation? I guess to many it is. Dang I need a book and some trinket to throw in. I would be rich. But, I am rich and have gold that most know not off.
No, the cross is in agreement with the NT.

However, your uncertain interpretations of unfulfilled symbolic prophetic riddles are not.