Is Christ Divided?

[BLC]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The word of God asks a question in (Amos 3:3), 'Can two walk together unless they be agreed'? In relationship to the household and family of God, how can we walk together unless we be agreed? Can a man walk with God if they are not agreed? What does it mean to have agreement? What does it mean to agree with God?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Can anyone explain the agreement in the following verse and how it applies to believers?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1John 5:8 'And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one'.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Does the trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit agree in one? [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And what about; 2Cor 6:16, '[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And what [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]agreement [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people'. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul wrote to the church at Corinth concerning many matters that were causing strife and division. In (1Cor 1:10) Paul writes this; 'Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment'.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]How about this portion of scripture; Phil 2:1-5 'If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus'. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We are saved and cleansed of sin because we agree that Jesus Christ shed His blood and sacrificed His life for our sins and the sins of the world. If some of us did not agree that Christ did that for us, then we would be in unbelief, not cleansed of sin, not having the salvation of Christ and without receiving the Holy Spirit of God. We would be separated from one another, because we do not agree and that is unbelief. Now, if we agree about the cross, the blood and salvation that is provided by the Lamb of God, how much more should we agree on the doctrine of Christ and every word of God that has been left us. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We are told to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Should we only agree on the gospel and neglect the doctrine of Christ? Jesus said that the scripture can not be broken (John 10:35). We were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, how much more shall we be saved by His life (Rom 5:10). His life is the word that He speaks to us, which is Spirit and life (John 6:63). We hide that word in our heart that we might not sin against God (Psalm 119:11). Every word of God is pure (Prov 30:5).[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If I believe that Christ is coming back, for His bride (the church) before the seven year tribulation and you believe He is coming after the tribulation, we do not agree and we are divided in our mind, our understanding and in our hearts. I would be looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to come back to take us up at any time, but you would be looking for the tribulation first, not knowing exactly when that seven years started and have to go through the wrath of God's tribulation upon the earth. Has God not delivered us from the wrath to come (1Thes 1:10)? It is not the mind of Christ that we be divided. Division will always cause strife. Where there is strife, there is confusion and every evil work (James 3:16). God is not the author of confusion (1Cor 14:33).[/FONT]

 

[BLC]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The word of God asks a question in (Amos 3:3), 'Can two walk together unless they be agreed'? In relationship to the household and family of God, how can we walk together unless we be agreed? Can a man walk with God if they are not agreed? What does it mean to have agreement? What does it mean to agree with God?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Can anyone explain the agreement in the following verse and how it applies to believers?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1John 5:8 'And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one'.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Does the trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit agree in one? [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]And what about; 2Cor 6:16, '[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]And what [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]agreement [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people'. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul wrote to the church at Corinth concerning many matters that were causing strife and division. In (1Cor 1:10) Paul writes this; 'Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment'.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]How about this portion of scripture; Phil 2:1-5 'If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus'. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We are saved and cleansed of sin because we agree that Jesus Christ shed His blood and sacrificed His life for our sins and the sins of the world. If some of us did not agree that Christ did that for us, then we would be in unbelief, not cleansed of sin, not having the salvation of Christ and without receiving the Holy Spirit of God. We would be separated from one another, because we do not agree and that is unbelief. Now, if we agree about the cross, the blood and salvation that is provided by the Lamb of God, how much more should we agree on the doctrine of Christ and every word of God that has been left us. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We are told to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4). [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Should we only agree on the gospel and neglect the doctrine of Christ? Jesus said that the scripture can not be broken (John 10:35). We were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, how much more shall we be saved by His life (Rom 5:10). His life is the word that He speaks to us, which is Spirit and life (John 6:63). We hide that word in our heart that we might not sin against God (Psalm 119:11). Every word of God is pure (Prov 30:5).[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If I believe that Christ is coming back, for His bride (the church) before the seven year tribulation and you believe He is coming after the tribulation, we do not agree and we are divided in our mind, our understanding and in our hearts. I would be looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to come back to take us up at any time, but you would be looking for the tribulation first, not knowing exactly when that seven years started and have to go through the wrath of God's tribulation upon the earth. Has God not delivered us from the wrath to come (1Thes 1:10)? It is not the mind of Christ that we be divided. Division will always cause strife. Where there is strife, there is confusion and every evil work (James 3:16). God is not the author of confusion (1Cor 14:33).[/FONT]

This has been bumped up, because I would like to know what people think of division in terms of what the scripture teach and in the body of Christ, the church. Many have viewed the various threads that convey much division in thinking, understanding and in conviction. Do we think that when Christ sent the disciples out by two's, that they went out with division in their heart and mind concerning the things of Christ and the doctrine which He taught them? Please speak up and express your godly conviction on this, it is so important.

 

[thefightinglamb]

So, you are asking "how can Christians claim unity if their minds seem to be divided on certain issues?"

The first example in the church that I know of is either trying to decide who should replace Judas Iscariat (this was easily resolved by drawing lots, which Proverbs says can and does settle the matter without offending a brother)...

The second was only resolved after 'much discussion' on circumcision...so were they of one mind or not??? Hmmm...

The third instance in the Bible is even more troubling to me--when Paul and Barnabas separate, read Acts 15: 36-41.

And after some days, Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us return and visit the brothers in every city where we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are." Now Barnabas wanted to take with them John called Mark. But Paul thought best not to take with them one who had withdrawn from them in Pamphilia and had not gone with them to the work. And there arose a sharp disagreement, so that they separated from each other. Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus, but Paul chose Silas and departed, having been commanded by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

It seems this is where denomination may have begun atleast spiritually...anyway, how can he who wrote that the church is to be of one mind have insisted on his mind and not agreed with taking John Mark for the SAKE of unity??? It is puzzling...

But now to directly deal with what you are talking about...most of the disagreements on this site I think stem from beliefs that are not essential to Christianity...For example, if the rapture occurs pre or after or in the tribulation matters little in the scheme of things...if you are waiting for the Lord...for if either side is wrong they will just continue waiting, watching, and praying until he comes...

Its the same with a lot of other 'controversial' topics even OSAS...Those who are saved will be saved, and its not the belif in or not in this doctrine that will save you but Jesus Christ...

I could go further, yes, there are siome topics I feel that are essential that may go against scripture that should not be tolerated...but only when it clearly stands against God and the 'unction' of the Holy Spirit...

I hope this helps...I said earlier in this post it is confusing how even this one (Paul) who sought unity also would have 'sharp disagreements' in the body that would even cause a 'separation.'

God bless
tony

 

[BLC]

There must be others that have something to say. There are those of you that are biting your tongue. That is not a good thing because it might start to bleed. Just kidding! Some of you have excellent wisdom and have some very good things that you could contribute on this. Don't be afraid of sharing what God has given you, because we are one body, with many members.

 

[BLC]

Do some of you think that if we talk about this subject that it would turn into something negative and get out of hand? That may happen with any subject that concerns the issues of the heart. We are individuals that have gone through life and have been exposed to a diverse number of things in life, giving each one a different history and makeup and decision making process. How we process information and understand knowledge is not always the same because of our diversity and the capacity we have through our experiences in life. No one understands that better then the one who made us.

Psalms 103:14 'For He knows our frame and remembers that we are but dust'.

Psalms 139:1-4 'O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether'.

Because He knows us so intimately, there is nothing that we can't put before Him in our conversations. We don't have to argue but rather contribute our portion that we have from God. Every portion is important and each one is necessary to make up the whole. It is better that we keep our words few and not be so lengthy. We are members one of another and will be that way for eternity.

 

[Baruch]

I believe that due to Bible translations, believers are fainting out of thirst for the word of God. I believe that false prophets have come in as Jesus has prophesied that it would happen to such an extent just before His appearing... that only a few will find the faith. It is written that the falling away of the faith must occur first and it has. Across all the denomenations in 1994, the "Promise Keepers'" movement and the "holy laughter" movement went nationwide as reported by the 700 Club as they were endorsing these movements as being for Jesus Christ or of God, but God has informed me that He had sent two plumblines across the nation to see whom will depart from faith to resort to their own power or/ and chase after other "gods".

How can such an influence occur? A small leaven... leavens a whole lump. The commitment to follow Christ as the response to the altar call to do if a believer was not sure he or she was saved is the rallying cry of the Graham's Crusade and from it.. as if that yoke of religious guantlet to save oneself by keeping that commitment to follow Christ.. wasn't enough... the comes along the Promise Keeper's program that boasts of obtaining righteousness of being a good father and good husband by keeping those 7 promises of the PK program added to the mountainous climb of finishing His work by the flesh and thus labouring in unbelief. And for the small leaven that allowed the holy laughter movement to be present hrough all the denomenations, the Nicene Creed... which was done in ecumenical format... an agreement for unity that had sown the seed of the smallest leaven... by including the Holy Spirit into the worship place which scripturally, the Holy Spirit does not seek that nor does God the Father wishes it so for the only way to honour God the Father is through the Son for that si how we shall be judged (John 5:22-23 & John 14:6) ... the only way to glorify God the Father is through the Son... ( John 13:31-32 & John 17:1-5) and the irony of all this is.. the Holy Spirit in us.. being God seeks to testify and glorify the Son as well... (John 15:26 & John 16:13-14 ) thus as we are led by the Spirit of God... so shall we be doing what the Holy Spirit in us is doing thus we come to the Father through the worship of the Son IN spirit and IN truth and thereby honouring and glorifying the Father in Heaven as we glorify the Son with the Holy Spirit in us for the name of Jesus is above every other name ( Philippians 2:9-11). But sadly, the broadening of the way of the Nicene Creed and then soon, the unscriptural hymnals.. singling out a stanza to address and worship the Holy Spirit and even a whole hymnal can be dedicated just to the Holy Spirit as believers get in the mindset of reliving Pentecost over again..... is it any mystery then in how seducing spirits came in, taking the sleeping churches by the storm in 1994 as they all fail to test the spirits as they were supposed to in 1 John 4:1-7?

Sorry to say, but the like-mindedness is not present even when these ecumenical movemenst are gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles across the denomenations as the only thing that was gloried.. was the name of the movement.. and not Jesus Christ the Lord. PK worshipped Him in vain, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men while holy laughter movement is a fulfillment of the prophetic warning in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 as it spurs onto even more movements of the "spirit" of varying dramatic flair, exalting the leader as the cause for that movment of the "spirit" as well.

Trace it back... prune it back... to get to the faith, one has to prune away the commitment to Christ.. the "I will" of man to declare the faith of the "He will" of God in Christ Jesus Our Lord. Trace it back.. prune it back.. narrow the way back to the straight gate from those that would broaden it to the Holy Spirit in the worship place when He is in us, pointing us to Jesus Christ, our first love.. the Bridegroom.. the Son By Whom we can get to know God the Father by. Both of these is the requirement to be witnesses of Him and not serving anything else in his name for the name of Jesus has to be above every other name... no ifs.. no buts.. no .. we did say his name.... you cannot honour man nor spirit for both the real indwelling Holy Spirit and the faithful witness seeks to testify of the Son and thereby glorify the Son so that the Father in Heaven may be glorified. We either honour the Son to honour the Father or.. by honouring someone else.. we are no longer honouring the Father.

So as we read the prayer in John 17th chapter, I notice it is addressed to the Father for this accomplishment of this unity. It was not a commandment given to the believers, but to keep the faith which is the good fight. 2 Timothy 4:1-9

But with the Word of God changed in the meanings of His words, how can anyone defend the faith as a famine is in the land? Amos 8:11

Even when using the King James bible which holds the actual meaning of God's words, if believers will not adhere to that correction if it be found on Jesus Chrsi whereas the other versions has it on man or the "spirit", then believers will faint for the Word of God as the falling away of the faith has occurred to such an extent that judgment must fall on the House of God to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake. Only then.. after being left behind.. will the foolish virgins will have that oil for their lamps to shine as a witness of what christ has done and the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living as Esau did for a meal.. will know that they are still sons for what He has done as Jesus will finish His work even in those left behind at the rapture event for God the Father shall scourge every child He receives so that they may be partakers of His holiness as Hebrews 12 th chapter & 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 declares in detail for surely, just as Christ taught excimmunication.. so will the wayward Gentile churches be done in like manner to the destruction of the flesh and the dead works that deny Him as being able, shall be put to the dust.

Unity in these perilous times would be a disasterous now, but I take comfort that God the Father shall answer that prayer in John 17th chapter when the elect are gathered and then there shall be unity in the House of the Lord for the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Yea.. look up.. for our redemption draweth nigh..... even so.. Come Lord Jesus.. Come.. Amen.

 

[MahogonySnail]

But in order to have unity, we may have to give up some of our doctrines that aren't well established (such as pre tribulation) and acknowledge the validity and possibility of being true, the other alternatives. Because I find it to be hypocritical for example for a pre-trib believer or even a OSAS believer to be saying that everyone must believe in the pre-tribulation and OSAS otherwise there can be no unity. And vice versa for post-trib believers. Unity means you probably will have to give up something and the other person gives up something and you find the common ground on what you can agree on and work towards that.