Is sanctification an event, a process, or both?

[Gr8grace]

This sounds like something you're added onto the gospel, because those in Acts were told to believe that Jesus was lord and son of GOD who was raised from the dead. That faith justified them. So it seems that you have added something more, i.e., that a faith that eschews works is required to maintain that justification.

You hit the contention, right on the head. This is where the debate will never get settled if we are influenced by the calvin side or the armin side and not the biblical side.

To many will say." It is faith alone and nothing else! But that faith WILL work, if not then you probably are not saved."

And the bible says," It is faith alone in Christ alone and nothing else! And that faith may or may not have works. Because it is up to the believer to be positive or negative to Gods word after salvation, but either way the believer is saved eternally."

Eph 2:10~~King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should (maybe we will, maybe we won't)walk in them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The bible says that believing Jesus is lord and/or son of GOD and has risen from the dead is sufficient to be justified.

Of course, Jesus is God.

then the question begs,

How can you be justified, yet at the same time not justified?

I know, that makes no sense, But in the literal sense, that is what you and everyone else who states our salvation is not secure are proclaiming.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You hit the contention, right on the head. This is where the debate will never get settled if we are influenced by the calvin side or the armin side and not the biblical side.

To many will say." It is faith alone and nothing else! But that faith WILL work, if not then you probably are not saved."

And the bible says," It is faith alone in Christ alone and nothing else! And that faith may or may not have works. Because it is up to the believer to be positive or negative to Gods word after salvation, but either way the believer is saved eternally."

Eph 2:10~~King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should (maybe we will, maybe we won't)walk in them.

I think it goes deeper than that, I do not believe a person can have faith and have absolutely no work, Even james hit on this.

What I think the argument is, what is determined as works.. or what is the defenition of works.

 

[ralph]

Sanctification is a life,christ manifest in flesh.Christ is to be manifested in the life of the believer who has got ahold of the new and living way through the flesh which Jesus opened up for us.Jesus is our forerunner and example,we are to follow in his steps who did no sin and so on.we are to come boldly to the throne to receive grace in time of need,that is help.the more we partake of sancitification the greater our fellowship with Christ Jesus.Jesus dwell in the light we must also dwell in his light.the light of Jesus increases as we are faithful to the truth according to the understanding ding we have and everyone's knowledge is in a different level but every one must be faithful to what they know?

 

[mailmandan]

This sounds like something you're added onto the gospel, because those in Acts were told to believe that Jesus was lord and son of GOD who was raised from the dead. That faith justified them. So it seems that you have added something more, i.e., that a faith that eschews works is required to maintain that justification.

It'a you who has "added" works to the gospel. In Acts 15:7, Peter said ..hear the word of the gospel and believe. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul said - 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.

Your gospel seems to omit that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried.. and "adds" works as a maintenance program. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of all who believe (trust) in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation (Romans 1:16). Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. It's not hard to understand. Just hard for you to ACCEPT.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It'a you who has "added" works to the gospel. In Acts 15:7, Peter said ..hear the word of the gospel and believe. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul said - 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.

Your gospel seems to omit that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried.. and "adds" works as a maintenance program. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of all who believe (trust) in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation (Romans 1:16). Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. It's not hard to understand. Just hard for you to ACCEPT.

OK Christ's death, burial and resurrection are definitely the gospel. That was proclaimed to those in Acts. But they weren't told to believe that he was "the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation" and that they were to place their faith alone in Christ and eschew works. They were simply told to repent and believe. And if they did they were justified.

It's the same for us. Once we believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, we are justified. But you've added that we have to believe a certain way, i.e., what you call "faith alone" in Christ, after justification. "Faith alone" just means the belief that believers cannot do GOD's will by actions. If a believer does believe that he can or must do GOD's will, then he has denied Christ, and his salvation is in danger. This is nothing more than progressive justification.

So it does appear that you don't believe in a one-time justification.

 

[FreeNChrist]

OK Christ's death, burial and resurrection are definitely the gospel. That was proclaimed to those in Acts. But they weren't told to believe that he was "the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation" and that they were to place their faith alone in Christ and eschew works. They were simply told to repent and believe. And if they did they were justified.

It's the same for us. Once we believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, we are justified. But you've added that we have to believe a certain way, i.e., what you call "faith alone" in Christ, after justification. "Faith alone" just means the belief that believers cannot do GOD's will by actions. If a believer does believe that he can or must do GOD's will, then he has denied Christ, and his salvation is in danger. This is nothing more than progressive justification.

So it does appear that you don't believe in a one-time justification.

It's not belief in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ that justifies us, it's belief in the Jesus Christ who died, was buried and rose again to life that justifies us.

 

[mailmandan]

OK Christ's death, burial and resurrection are definitely the gospel. That was proclaimed to those in Acts. But they weren't told to believe that he was "the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation" and that they were to place their faith alone in Christ and eschew works. They were simply told to repent and believe. And if they did they were justified.

At least you finally admit that Christ's death, burial and resurrection is definitely the gospel. What do you think it means to BELIEVE the gospel? Simply believe that Christ's death, burial and resurrection "happened?" Even the demons believe that and they are not saved. To BELIEVE the gospel not only means to believe that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" but we must also trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. *This is where you blow it and trust in works for salvation instead. When we repent and believe the gospel, we change our mind and trust in Christ alone for salvation. Galatians 2:16 - ..know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. Faith in Jesus Christ "plus what else?" Plus nothing else. Faith in Jesus Christ ALONE.

It's the same for us. Once we believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, we are justified. But you've added that we have to believe a certain way, i.e., what you call "faith alone" in Christ, after justification.

We do need to believe a certain way and it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. The word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance" in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

"Faith alone" just means the belief that believers cannot do GOD's will by actions.

Faith (in Christ) alone for salvation means that believers are trusting in Christ alone for salvation and not in their works (Ephesians 2:8,9). What a genuine believer means by salvation "through faith in Christ alone" and what James means by "faith only or alone" - empty profession of faith/dead faith that is barren of works (James 2:14) is NOT the same message. Don't let the word "alone" fool you. Whoops. Too late.

If a believer does believe that he can or must do GOD's will, then he has denied Christ, and his salvation is in danger. This is nothing more than progressive justification.

Those who believe in Him (Christ) for salvation have done the will of the Father in receiving salvation (John 6:40). Salvation is not in danger for genuine believers.

So it does appear that you don't believe in a one-time justification.

Justification is a one time event. Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. *Not to be confused with ongoing sanctification.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

At least you finally admit that Christ's death, burial and resurrection is definitely the gospel. What do you think it means to BELIEVE the gospel? Simply believe that Christ's death, burial and resurrection "happened?" Even the demons believe that and they are not saved. To BELIEVE the gospel not only means to believe that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" but we must also trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. *This is where you blow it and trust in works for salvation instead. When we repent and believe the gospel, we change our mind and trust in Christ alone for salvation. Galatians 2:16 - ..know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. [/B]Faith in Jesus Christ "plus what else?" Plus nothing else. Faith in Jesus Christ ALONE. .

No, you're entirely wrong about this. I challenge you to find me one instance of what you said in the book of Acts. All of the apostles simply told people to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and their sins would be forgiven. That is the faith that justifies.

James said that the devils believe that GOD is one, not that they believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. So that point you made is a mischaracterization and non-issue.

 

[mailmandan]

No, you're entirely wrong about this. I challenge you to find me one instance of what you said in the book of Acts. All of the apostles simply told people to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and their sins would be forgiven. That is the faith that justifies.

It's you who is entirely wrong about this. You still cannot grasp this DEEPER belief/faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in works for salvation. Again, to BELIEVE in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ goes beyond merely believing "that it happened." Even the demons believe that. I already thoroughly explained this in post #88, but the truth went over your head.

James said that the devils believe that GOD is one, not that they believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. So that point you made is a mischaracterization and non-issue.

The demons certainly believe that "there is one God" and that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. ​My point has clearly been made, even though you continue to miss it.

The word translated "believe" is from the greek word pisteuō which means to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to *entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).*

The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation*; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Again, the word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19 or also include trust and reliance in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It's you who is entirely wrong about this. You still cannot grasp this DEEPER belief/faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in works for salvation. Again, to BELIEVE in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ goes beyond merely believing "that it happened." Even the demons believe that. I already thoroughly explained this in post #88, but the truth went over your head.

The demons certainly believe that "there is one God" and that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. ​My point has clearly been made, even though you continue to miss it.

The word translated "believe" is from the greek word pisteuō which means to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to *entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).*

The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation*; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Again, the word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19 or also include trust and reliance in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31.

Did you give up on my challenge already? You're just trying to rationalize what the scriptures say.

 

[mailmandan]

Did you give up on my challenge already? You're just trying to rationalize what the scriptures say.

The challenge is for you to understand what it truly means to believe in Him/believe the gospel/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43; 15:7: 16:31: 20:21).

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The challenge is for you to understand what it truly means to believe in Him/believe the gospel/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43; 15:7: 16:31: 20:21).

So you have failed the challenge. I knew it. You cannot make be what isn't.

 

[mailmandan]

So you have failed the challenge. I knew it. You cannot make be what isn't.

I have already thoroughly shared the truth with you and proved my argument in multiple posts, but unfortunately, the truth continues to go right over your head. Once again, it's you who has failed to understand what it truly means to believe in Him/believe the gospel/believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43; 15:7; 16:31: 20:21) so your challenge is no challenge at all.