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From your understanding? You mean from what you've been told? Because you obviously haven't learned about it. The LDS do not feel the Bible isn't good enough. I'm not going to address this again. I already responded to this in comment number #13 of this thread. I give a link to another thread about Mormons where I address it in greater detail. http://christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=12120 comment number #9
He is no more a brother to Christ than you or me are. They are no more brothers than you or me are brothers. Satan is no more Christ's brother than you or me. In the same way everyone is spirit children of God. You're implying they're like Ryu and Ken the tag team match up or that Satan is Christ's evil twin brother. They're not. This is all the LDS believe and because of that critics which you listen to twist into something it's not.
#
John 20: 17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
#
Rom. 8: 16-17, 21
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
• • •
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
ST MATTHEW
CHAPTER 7
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
EPHESIANS
CHAPTER 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
JAMES
CHAPTER 2
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Salvation comes by grace through faith which is dead without works.
2 Ne. 25: 23 (Book of Mormon)
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
Mosiah 4: 27 (Book of Mormon)
27 And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.
Moro. 7: 47 (Book of Mormon)
47 But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
If someone says they are born again and don't do good works then do they have faith? If they don't have faith are they saved? If there are two people and they both claim to have faith but only one of them is doing good works would they both be saved? Would the one that is not obeying the commandments be saved even though he believes he has been saved? Can you get to heaven with dead faith? Can you be saved by grace if your faith is dead? Faith without works is dead.
You can't earn Salvation by your works. You also can't obtain it by not doing anything. It's still a gift in the end. It would be like someone saying I'll give you a car and I'll fully pay for it but I want to make sure you'll drive it safely. It's still a gift and no matter what you do to show that you are not earning the car. It is still a gift. But if you do not show that you will drive it safely or just ignore it all together and keep driving unsafe then he is not going to give it to you. You're not expected to be a perfect driver in this life but that is what you're striving to become.
So I think that pretty much shows how little you know about Mormons. You say they believe the Bible isn't good enough which is false. You say they believe Satan and Christ are brothers which is a gross misrepresentation of the truth. You say they believe they work their way to heaven which is also false.
The Book of Mormon does not contradict the Bible. Are you implying they teach out of a Satanic Bible?
#
2 Ne. 25: 26 (Book of Mormon)
26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.
Yes, totally of the devil. This must be Satan's master plan to get the LDS to believe in a book that preaches and talks of Christ. He decieves the LDS by getting them to do good works so they don't have time to sit around on a website bashing other faiths.
Their first article of faith is
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost
Their eleventh article of faith states
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Is it so hard for you to let them have that as well?
He is no more a brother to Christ than you or me are. They are no more brothers than you or me are brothers. Satan is no more Christ's brother than you or me. In the same way everyone is spirit children of God. You're implying they're like Ryu and Ken the tag team match up or that Satan is Christ's evil twin brother. They're not. This is all the LDS believe and because of that critics which you listen to twist into something it's not.
#
John 20: 17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
#
Rom. 8: 16-17, 21
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
• • •
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
ST MATTHEW
CHAPTER 7
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
EPHESIANS
CHAPTER 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
JAMES
CHAPTER 2
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Salvation comes by grace through faith which is dead without works.
2 Ne. 25: 23 (Book of Mormon)
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
Mosiah 4: 27 (Book of Mormon)
27 And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.
Moro. 7: 47 (Book of Mormon)
47 But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
If someone says they are born again and don't do good works then do they have faith? If they don't have faith are they saved? If there are two people and they both claim to have faith but only one of them is doing good works would they both be saved? Would the one that is not obeying the commandments be saved even though he believes he has been saved? Can you get to heaven with dead faith? Can you be saved by grace if your faith is dead? Faith without works is dead.
You can't earn Salvation by your works. You also can't obtain it by not doing anything. It's still a gift in the end. It would be like someone saying I'll give you a car and I'll fully pay for it but I want to make sure you'll drive it safely. It's still a gift and no matter what you do to show that you are not earning the car. It is still a gift. But if you do not show that you will drive it safely or just ignore it all together and keep driving unsafe then he is not going to give it to you. You're not expected to be a perfect driver in this life but that is what you're striving to become.
So I think that pretty much shows how little you know about Mormons. You say they believe the Bible isn't good enough which is false. You say they believe Satan and Christ are brothers which is a gross misrepresentation of the truth. You say they believe they work their way to heaven which is also false.
The Book of Mormon does not contradict the Bible. Are you implying they teach out of a Satanic Bible?
#
2 Ne. 25: 26 (Book of Mormon)
26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.
Yes, totally of the devil. This must be Satan's master plan to get the LDS to believe in a book that preaches and talks of Christ. He decieves the LDS by getting them to do good works so they don't have time to sit around on a website bashing other faiths.
Their first article of faith is
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost
Their eleventh article of faith states
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Is it so hard for you to let them have that as well?
Are you serious? Are you honestly serious? Do you have amnesia or attention deficit disorder? Look in comment number #8 IN THIS THREAD. You're calling me a liar? Also it's Mormon not Morman and I am not one.
"I've done this before!!! I am telling you it is HARD though. They have been so brainwashed. It is very sad. "
C
ok, i am sorry for this misunderstanding, i was not calling the mormon doctrine satanic i was simply drawing a parallel, saying that using two contradicting sources would be similar to a christian who studiers from a satanic bible or any bible from another religion because the two would contradict each other, and i am not at all denying the right of people to worship what they please, you could worship a rock if you wanted to but according to my faith i am to tell you of your wrongs or your blood will be on my hands (Ezekiel 3)
regardless of all of the things i said earlier, i know that God does not lie, if he says something is going to happen IT WILL
and from my research i have found many prophecies that Mr. Joseph Smith has told that have not come to pass, for example:
This prophecy comes directly from Doctrine & Covenants Section 84, the introduction of which states:
Hebrews 13:8 says Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever if this is true why would he change what he said? However, Mr.Joseph Smith changed the LDS doctrine a couple times through ''revelations'', that i know of and there are probably more instances that i dont know of
i am sorry if this is offensive to you, but it shouldnt be because i am using one of the books you use as a reference
God Bless,
cmacneill
regardless of all of the things i said earlier, i know that God does not lie, if he says something is going to happen IT WILL
and from my research i have found many prophecies that Mr. Joseph Smith has told that have not come to pass, for example:
President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. . . . it was the will of God that they should be ordained to the ministry and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh — even fifty six years should wind up the scene. (History of the Church, Vol. 2, page 182).
This prophecy was spoken by Joseph Smith in 1835, and recorded by Oliver Cowdery. The fifty-six years were passed by 1891.
I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished (History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 394).
Joseph Smith made this prophecy in May 6, 1843. However, the United States Government did not redress any of the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri, and now over 150 years later, the U.S. Government still stands.
This prophecy comes directly from Doctrine & Covenants Section 84, the introduction of which states:
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, September 22 and 23, 1832. HC 1:286-295.
1. A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2. Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3. Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4. Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri due to persecution and a temple was never built on the "temple lot" in the lifetime of Joseph Smith or within the generation of his contemporaries.1. A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2. Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3. Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4. Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
Hebrews 13:8 says Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever if this is true why would he change what he said? However, Mr.Joseph Smith changed the LDS doctrine a couple times through ''revelations'', that i know of and there are probably more instances that i dont know of
i am sorry if this is offensive to you, but it shouldnt be because i am using one of the books you use as a reference
God Bless,
cmacneill
Sigh. I already answered all of your questions from your last post. Do you acknowledge them as being true? No you do not. Instead you just list more questions from websites. I'm not going to answer question after question after question. If I answer these questions what then? Would you just pull more questions from another site? Would it change your opinion at all or would you still feel the need to go after the LDS faith? I don't know if there is really any point. If you have so much time to go look up questions from websites that criticize and do not like the LDS faith, why not go to LDS sites that actually teach what they believe? There are even apologetic sites, which I've already named in the other thread about Mormons, that would answer most if not all of your questions. Why do you continue going to those who are non LDS to find your answers?
#11
"If you want to sincerely learn about what the LDS church teaches go to the LDS church main site http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vg...001f5e340aRCRD
You could also go to LDS apologetic sites. http://www.fairlds.org/ or http://en.fairmormon.org/50_Answers There are many others if you would have taken two seconds to look."
#11
"If you want to sincerely learn about what the LDS church teaches go to the LDS church main site http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vg...001f5e340aRCRD
You could also go to LDS apologetic sites. http://www.fairlds.org/ or http://en.fairmormon.org/50_Answers There are many others if you would have taken two seconds to look."
C
i can only respond with what my friend jjkg said in the thread ''Mormon shut down''
he said what i could not make clear, the big difference between Mormonism and Christianity boils down to Christ, there are many differences between the Mormon version and Christian version of Jesus and even if you can explain away the differences, the fact is still that their is a difference. that cannot be denied. my question is, how can things be different and still both be correct? the answer is it is impossible! at first glance, they both look similar but when dig a little deeper you can see that there are obvious differences. these differences are major enough to even call us different religions
and therefore cannot be denied. i personally have chosen to follow the Jesus as portrayed by the bible, the book that God himself wrote through people
God bless,
cmacneill
he said what i could not make clear, the big difference between Mormonism and Christianity boils down to Christ, there are many differences between the Mormon version and Christian version of Jesus and even if you can explain away the differences, the fact is still that their is a difference. that cannot be denied. my question is, how can things be different and still both be correct? the answer is it is impossible! at first glance, they both look similar but when dig a little deeper you can see that there are obvious differences. these differences are major enough to even call us different religions
and therefore cannot be denied. i personally have chosen to follow the Jesus as portrayed by the bible, the book that God himself wrote through people
God bless,
cmacneill
