Moral Implications of Atheism

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Nick01

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
26
48
#61
Out right unjustified murder is considered a taboo upon universal morals. There are universal morals, as evident by the code of Hammurabi, the Tang code, and Kouroukan Fouga. These are examples of written codes, doubtlessly moral taboos existed in societies without them where individuals exist, morals exist, where groups of individuals exist, societies form, and where these socities form the agreed upon morals are coded into law (though often with the king or warlord throwing in a few laws to justify or demand allegiance to the powers that be).
You do realise all those codes are different from each other in many respects, right? As I have said already, it is largely immaterial whether societies have had legal codes (though certainly not all have ever had distinct, immutable codes of that kind). It makes particular sense if legal codes serve the needs of the privileged and elite - they are privileging their own status and survival, and making others play along. So it is true there is an idea of morality may be universal, but the actual moral codes are not.

For instance, would you agree with the Hammurabi that theft, criminal negligence, assisting escaped slaves, disorderly conduct, multiple marriages, or being a 'bad wife' (the latter punishable by drowning) are justified killings. Why or why not?

Also, to say unjustified murder is a taboo is a truism - murder is by definition unjustified, hence why killing in self defence is not generally considered murder in our contemporary legal code. What matters is what is considered justified death. That differs significantly, and calls into question any real appeal to an authentic, universal, intrinsic moral-immoral narrative. It's determined entirely by context, and that being true, the only rational way to ultimately validate one's opinion is by force.

Keep in mind various species function differently, we don't see individuals within hives of ants (the workers at least) murdering each other at random.
Yep, because they all are the children of the same queen ant, and the workers themselves can't reproduce. So only one genetic set per hive, basically. Ants from other hives will fight each other to bloody, bloody death.

Might doesn't mean right in my opinion, wars very often are meaningless struggles over where the line gets drawn on the map, perhaps it both parties were a bit more logical, they may have spent their efforts on improving their own civilizations.
Again, this is all opinion. You still haven't established an actual rational foundation for "might not equalling right", for "meaningless struggles", or "improving your own civilisation". It's all in the eye of the beholder, right, because there is no purpose to life, it's all about surviving as long as you can as you see fit, producing offspring, and constructing your own meaning as you go. Nietzsche was right on the money on that front - if God is dead, we must create a new meaning.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#62
While there are worldviews which align against theism, such as paganism, atheism is diametrically opposed to theism and visa versa.

The word 'atheism' originated in the late 16th century (French atheism) (Greek atheos) from a- 'without' + theos 'god.'

Atheism translates directly as a (without) theos (god).

The origin of theism comes from the late 17th century (Greek theos) 'god' + ism.

Atheism and theism directly contrast with each other.

Furthermore, the metaphysical worldview of Marxism is atheism applied as state atheism.


Atheism is not the same as antitheism.
 
G

Grey

Guest
#63
Or state enforced atheism, to me thats no better than enforced theism, religion is the choice of the individual.
 
G

Grey

Guest
#64
You do realise all those codes are different from each other in many respects, right? As I have said already, it is largely immaterial whether societies have had legal codes (though certainly not all have ever had distinct, immutable codes of that kind). It makes particular sense if legal codes serve the needs of the privileged and elite - they are privileging their own status and survival, and making others play along. So it is true there is an idea of morality may be universal, but the actual moral codes are not.

For instance, would you agree with the Hammurabi that theft, criminal negligence, assisting escaped slaves, disorderly conduct, multiple marriages, or being a 'bad wife' (the latter punishable by drowning) are justified killings. Why or why not?

Also, to say unjustified murder is a taboo is a truism - murder is by definition unjustified, hence why killing in self defence is not generally considered murder in our contemporary legal code. What matters is what is considered justified death. That differs significantly, and calls into question any real appeal to an authentic, universal, intrinsic moral-immoral narrative. It's determined entirely by context, and that being true, the only rational way to ultimately validate one's opinion is by force.



Yep, because they all are the children of the same queen ant, and the workers themselves can't reproduce. So only one genetic set per hive, basically. Ants from other hives will fight each other to bloody, bloody death.



Again, this is all opinion. You still haven't established an actual rational foundation for "might not equalling right", for "meaningless struggles", or "improving your own civilisation". It's all in the eye of the beholder, right, because there is no purpose to life, it's all about surviving as long as you can as you see fit, producing offspring, and constructing your own meaning as you go. Nietzsche was right on the money on that front - if God is dead, we must create a new meaning.
Believe me this is alllll opinion. Indeed the codes were vastly different, but theft and murder (despite having different punishments) is still a crime.

The ants remind me a bit of feudal europe.

The rest is speculation.(on my behalf)
 

Nick01

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
26
48
#65
Believe me this is alllll opinion. Indeed the codes were vastly different, but theft and murder (despite having different punishments) is still a crime.

The ants remind me a bit of feudal europe.

The rest is speculation.(on my behalf)
Cool. Then we're agreed, at the very least, that there's no rational basis to a secular ethic, especially Western secular ethics. It's either learned arbitrary behaviour from the last several hundred years, or its simply context driven individual opinion, or a combination of the two. Therefore, there's no basis to argue for or against any action on moral grounds, because others can simply disagree with you.

Re: ants, apart from the one reproducer per hive thing, I guess you could say that.