T
So, I go to a pentecostal church that was 'born' like 40 years? ago I believe, or there abouts...
And lately, it has bothered me how Christian churches seem to pop up out of nowhere? and seek new members? and sometimes they get new members, sometimes they steal the appetites of the young with 'worldliness' in the church (such as flashy stages with strobing lights and everything else you can imagine)...
I have to question in America right now, is it true that we need new churches? Where have our ancestors worshipped? And why is this 'not good enough'?
I honestly believe that there have been faithfull Christians in America since its founding. I find it hard to believe that either I am the only sincere Christian or that some other Joe Smoe has found a "New Jesus" to preach that the holy people of old did not already worship, anywhere near me or you--or that the Holy Spirit has let every church of the past be led astray.
My heart has to question rather or not Jesus would like "new churches" everywhere. To be honest the new churches around me seem to be either 'pop' baptist/nondenominational or 'pop' pentecostal/nondenominational who seem to just appeal to people's appetites--meaning the music they want to hear, or people their age, et cetera. Reminds me of Revelations where it says people will look for preachers who preach what their itching ears want to hear.
I think the tension between these churches (which are opening more and more each day)and 'the churches of old' (that are closing at an alarming rate, how do you get a place that has been worshipped at for 100s of years?--perhaps it will take us 100s of year to find out what we are now losing, if our modern churches can stick around that long--which I doubt) may quite possibly lead to a crisis in the church.
What happens when these 'new churches with their neon Jesus' burn out? When they discover that they really have NO ancestors in the past that support the way they live?
As I said before there is a wisdom that only old holy men and old holy women can give to the young, a timeless eternal wisdom that is being lost. A widom that teaches us daily how to live and how to grow old in Christ.
You may say, "But we do not WANT to worship in the way they did in the past!" I hear you, and I hear the folly of youth trying to lead itself. I remember a story where the Lord thrawted the plans of a king who listened to his friends instead of listening to the counsel of the elders who were around him--and he was devastated. I remember how they warned him to lighten the load on their backs, and instead he said his pinky was heavier than his father's hand at the advice of his friends. The people rebelled and the kingdom said, what lot do we have in house of David? I think it was the son of Soloman actually...
I greatly fear that these pop churches are not anything more than self-destructive mechanisms. They largely depend on their charismatic preacher and when said preacher leaves, the church either dries out and dies or dwindles to a very humble number of people faithful to a church that is only perhaps deacades old (I usually see them fizzle out way before the decades mark).
What pop church has ever preached the hard sayings of Jesus? And can you be saved by preaching a neon Jesus?
I find myself continually asking these questions again and again to no avail. I go to the churches and hear some truth in their sermons, but nothing difficult--nothing that demands you 'deny yourself every day.' And if they were honest, they would tell you that they could not draw in the world if they preached that is it not enough that they draw people in their nets and get them to confess Jesus is Lord=saved?!?!
I don't know its baffling to me...do ends justify means in Christianity?!? I honestly don't know anymore? Is it wrong to use worldliness to hook worldly people into the church--then teaching them who Jesus really is??? But I do not even know if they teach who Jesus really is...
And another frightening thought that I know is true, every single church that is out there on its own is like a skiff in the ocean. Not only are they by themselves for storms and doctrines, but also for declaring who is truly a Christian. What I mean is I have no idea who you are reader, but I would wager that 90% of these new churches would say you are not with them (or not a Christian, you need to be rebaptized, redoctrinated, et cetera.). I am wagering this especially if you are in one of these new churches, I have seen just about everything from pastrami to bologna in all the other new churches (of course besides yours, I would laugh at this statement if it did not make me so confused and sad), if you know what I mean...
I honestly think when these new churches collapse as they are forcing the older churches to callapse, it is going to be devastating to the church, when they look for where they were saved or look for that godly austerity that is gone.
Perhaps these new churches will also last 100s of years (I am talking about AMerican churches as they can be no longer than when Columbus and the settlers brought the good news), but even if they do I see the superficial and shallow Christian replacing the Christian that once stood in waters that were 100s of years old.
Is there a New Jesus that needs to be preached in areas that have had churches worshipping the Lord since the gospel first came there? And if not a New Jesus, then why not preach and encourage people to follow the true Jesus in the old churches where our grandparaents got married, where they clung their hands together in prayer for you?
This rant may be sparked by somebody suggesting that I go to a quaker church...which I am greatly considering going to tomorrow. I have been to a modern quaker church that looks a lot like other churches, but I want to go to one of the past quaker churches--where people sit and wait and listen for the Lord to stir them.
I also have pain in seeing the Lutheran church of my high school days dying out, and if 30+ years is not enough to keep a church going...I know that most of these new churches that don't even have a backbone structure (meaning either tested doctrine or bishops and leaders over multiple churches to keep the churches in line) have little chance of crossing the oceans and storms of this world.
How do we solve this? I have no idea but it scares me for all those believers who are weak and just learning to walk--even as Paul was afraid for the churches in his time.
The true church has ALWAYS been more about quality than quantity of its members. When quantity was in the crowds, Jesus preached the hard truth...and then quality believers remained.
God bless
and may the love and faith that dwelt in the goldly grandparents of the past also dwell in you, even as Paul blessed and was hopeful for Timothy
tony
And lately, it has bothered me how Christian churches seem to pop up out of nowhere? and seek new members? and sometimes they get new members, sometimes they steal the appetites of the young with 'worldliness' in the church (such as flashy stages with strobing lights and everything else you can imagine)...
I have to question in America right now, is it true that we need new churches? Where have our ancestors worshipped? And why is this 'not good enough'?
I honestly believe that there have been faithfull Christians in America since its founding. I find it hard to believe that either I am the only sincere Christian or that some other Joe Smoe has found a "New Jesus" to preach that the holy people of old did not already worship, anywhere near me or you--or that the Holy Spirit has let every church of the past be led astray.
My heart has to question rather or not Jesus would like "new churches" everywhere. To be honest the new churches around me seem to be either 'pop' baptist/nondenominational or 'pop' pentecostal/nondenominational who seem to just appeal to people's appetites--meaning the music they want to hear, or people their age, et cetera. Reminds me of Revelations where it says people will look for preachers who preach what their itching ears want to hear.
I think the tension between these churches (which are opening more and more each day)and 'the churches of old' (that are closing at an alarming rate, how do you get a place that has been worshipped at for 100s of years?--perhaps it will take us 100s of year to find out what we are now losing, if our modern churches can stick around that long--which I doubt) may quite possibly lead to a crisis in the church.
What happens when these 'new churches with their neon Jesus' burn out? When they discover that they really have NO ancestors in the past that support the way they live?
As I said before there is a wisdom that only old holy men and old holy women can give to the young, a timeless eternal wisdom that is being lost. A widom that teaches us daily how to live and how to grow old in Christ.
You may say, "But we do not WANT to worship in the way they did in the past!" I hear you, and I hear the folly of youth trying to lead itself. I remember a story where the Lord thrawted the plans of a king who listened to his friends instead of listening to the counsel of the elders who were around him--and he was devastated. I remember how they warned him to lighten the load on their backs, and instead he said his pinky was heavier than his father's hand at the advice of his friends. The people rebelled and the kingdom said, what lot do we have in house of David? I think it was the son of Soloman actually...
I greatly fear that these pop churches are not anything more than self-destructive mechanisms. They largely depend on their charismatic preacher and when said preacher leaves, the church either dries out and dies or dwindles to a very humble number of people faithful to a church that is only perhaps deacades old (I usually see them fizzle out way before the decades mark).
What pop church has ever preached the hard sayings of Jesus? And can you be saved by preaching a neon Jesus?
I find myself continually asking these questions again and again to no avail. I go to the churches and hear some truth in their sermons, but nothing difficult--nothing that demands you 'deny yourself every day.' And if they were honest, they would tell you that they could not draw in the world if they preached that is it not enough that they draw people in their nets and get them to confess Jesus is Lord=saved?!?!
I don't know its baffling to me...do ends justify means in Christianity?!? I honestly don't know anymore? Is it wrong to use worldliness to hook worldly people into the church--then teaching them who Jesus really is??? But I do not even know if they teach who Jesus really is...
And another frightening thought that I know is true, every single church that is out there on its own is like a skiff in the ocean. Not only are they by themselves for storms and doctrines, but also for declaring who is truly a Christian. What I mean is I have no idea who you are reader, but I would wager that 90% of these new churches would say you are not with them (or not a Christian, you need to be rebaptized, redoctrinated, et cetera.). I am wagering this especially if you are in one of these new churches, I have seen just about everything from pastrami to bologna in all the other new churches (of course besides yours, I would laugh at this statement if it did not make me so confused and sad), if you know what I mean...
I honestly think when these new churches collapse as they are forcing the older churches to callapse, it is going to be devastating to the church, when they look for where they were saved or look for that godly austerity that is gone.
Perhaps these new churches will also last 100s of years (I am talking about AMerican churches as they can be no longer than when Columbus and the settlers brought the good news), but even if they do I see the superficial and shallow Christian replacing the Christian that once stood in waters that were 100s of years old.
Is there a New Jesus that needs to be preached in areas that have had churches worshipping the Lord since the gospel first came there? And if not a New Jesus, then why not preach and encourage people to follow the true Jesus in the old churches where our grandparaents got married, where they clung their hands together in prayer for you?
This rant may be sparked by somebody suggesting that I go to a quaker church...which I am greatly considering going to tomorrow. I have been to a modern quaker church that looks a lot like other churches, but I want to go to one of the past quaker churches--where people sit and wait and listen for the Lord to stir them.
I also have pain in seeing the Lutheran church of my high school days dying out, and if 30+ years is not enough to keep a church going...I know that most of these new churches that don't even have a backbone structure (meaning either tested doctrine or bishops and leaders over multiple churches to keep the churches in line) have little chance of crossing the oceans and storms of this world.
How do we solve this? I have no idea but it scares me for all those believers who are weak and just learning to walk--even as Paul was afraid for the churches in his time.
The true church has ALWAYS been more about quality than quantity of its members. When quantity was in the crowds, Jesus preached the hard truth...and then quality believers remained.
God bless
and may the love and faith that dwelt in the goldly grandparents of the past also dwell in you, even as Paul blessed and was hopeful for Timothy
tony
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