once again who gets the credit for our salvation.
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You are making claims SeaBass. Didn't you claim that salvation comes by obeying commandments & doing righteousness? You made the statements about inside & outside didn't you? Clarify it for us:
How can anyone then get in? If no one outside of Christ is righteous, and you can't get in until you are righteous, there must no one "in Christ."
How much righteousness does it take to be in Christ?
Answer SeaBass, you are the one making claims on salvation by doing rightousness:
How much work is required to get up to the level of working God's righteousness?
Is once a week on Sunday morning enough?
Can I just wear a patch of wool inside my shirt against my skin,
or do I have to wear the whole wool shirt itchy side in?
Is tithing enough, or do I have to sell all my goods, give them to the poor, and live under a bridge?
How much work is required to get up to the level of working God's righteousness?
Is once a week on Sunday morning enough?
Can I just wear a patch of wool inside my shirt against my skin,
or do I have to wear the whole wool shirt itchy side in?
Is tithing enough, or do I have to sell all my goods, give them to the poor, and live under a bridge?
Now much righteousness do you have to do, SeaBass to be born of God?
Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and you shall be saved.
Believe is the ONLY action of man mentioned in answer to the question.
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. 5
Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and you shall be saved.
Believe is the ONLY action of man mentioned in answer to the question.
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. 5
Dear, dear SeaBass --
if such is the case, we would all go to the Lake of Fire. And there is none that does righteousness, no not one -- that is before a man is saved. Do you really suppose that you will do all of God's righteousness?
And even after a man is regenerated, born again, old things pass away, behold all is new; the Old Man hangs around, and we all sin plenty. In many things we all stumble.
All that is why we must have a Savior.
Eph 2 explains it all so well:
"And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
The dead sinner must be given new life, along with that goes the free gift of eternal life. And we get this guarantee:
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Stubborn persistent willful sin on the part of a Christian results in chastisement, possibly even to the point of physical death that the spirit may be saved. But nothing, but nothing will separate the child of God from that special love in Christ Jesus. King David is an extreme example of sin, but even he did not get to the point that he had to be executed.
Nothing present and nothing in the future can separate the believer from the special love which they have in Christ Jesus. "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
He has paid for all the Christian's sins.
He has redeemed us at the cost of His precious blood.
You surely have heard all this before.
May the Lord open blind eyes to realize how hopeless is a man's case apart from God's grace. May those who trust in their supposed good works, repent of the sin of the Pharisee, self-righteousness. He came not to call the righteous, but sinners.
if such is the case, we would all go to the Lake of Fire. And there is none that does righteousness, no not one -- that is before a man is saved. Do you really suppose that you will do all of God's righteousness?
And even after a man is regenerated, born again, old things pass away, behold all is new; the Old Man hangs around, and we all sin plenty. In many things we all stumble.
All that is why we must have a Savior.
Eph 2 explains it all so well:
"And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
The dead sinner must be given new life, along with that goes the free gift of eternal life. And we get this guarantee:
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Stubborn persistent willful sin on the part of a Christian results in chastisement, possibly even to the point of physical death that the spirit may be saved. But nothing, but nothing will separate the child of God from that special love in Christ Jesus. King David is an extreme example of sin, but even he did not get to the point that he had to be executed.
Nothing present and nothing in the future can separate the believer from the special love which they have in Christ Jesus. "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
He has paid for all the Christian's sins.
He has redeemed us at the cost of His precious blood.
You surely have heard all this before.
May the Lord open blind eyes to realize how hopeless is a man's case apart from God's grace. May those who trust in their supposed good works, repent of the sin of the Pharisee, self-righteousness. He came not to call the righteous, but sinners.
Yes I can and no one can offer a valid EXCUSE as to why they cannot do all that God has commanded. God did not give man commands just so man think he can ignore them or give commands just to hear Himself talk.
Is this the EXCUSE you are offering up that man does not have to keep God's commands?
Christ will not save those that will not obey, Heb 5:9,.....man has no excuse for not obeying.
Those that do the will of the Father enter the kingdom, Mt 7:21.....man has no excuse for not doing the Father's will
Now how much unrighteousness can one do and still be saved?
Is this the EXCUSE you are offering up that man does not have to keep God's commands?
Christ will not save those that will not obey, Heb 5:9,.....man has no excuse for not obeying.
Those that do the will of the Father enter the kingdom, Mt 7:21.....man has no excuse for not doing the Father's will
Now how much unrighteousness can one do and still be saved?
So you are as good as Jesus? Perhaps Jesus could have stayed home and left it all up to you?
Point being that you cannot keep Gods commands. You cannot keep any of God's commands perfectly as God demands. You can only keep them to the best of your ability and that frankly is not good enough. No one apart from Christ has kept them good enough to satisfy God.
Yet you misunderstand that what God wants is believing not resisting. Doing the Father's will is submitting the Christ as your Savior and receiving His righteousness in place of your filthy rags.
If one is saved by grace the question is mute. If one is saved by his own efforts then absolutely none. Why do you resist Gods grace? Why do you make your efforts to be of the same merit as those of Christ?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Point being that you cannot keep Gods commands. You cannot keep any of God's commands perfectly as God demands. You can only keep them to the best of your ability and that frankly is not good enough. No one apart from Christ has kept them good enough to satisfy God.
Yet you misunderstand that what God wants is believing not resisting. Doing the Father's will is submitting the Christ as your Savior and receiving His righteousness in place of your filthy rags.
If one is saved by grace the question is mute. If one is saved by his own efforts then absolutely none. Why do you resist Gods grace? Why do you make your efforts to be of the same merit as those of Christ?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I never said I kept them perfectly. God does not expect sinless perfection but an obedient faith. Since God does not expect sinless perfection, God put into His gospel avenues for the Christian to repent when he does not obey perfectly.
1 Jn 1:7 if the Christian continues to walk in the light, then Christ's blood continues to cleanse away ALL sins keeping the Christian spotless and witout blame, 2 Pet 3:14. BUt this cleansing will never happen without obedience.
Then it was pointless and senseless on God's part to give commands to man knowing full well men cannot obey those commands. But God gave those commands knowing man could obey those commands.
God commanded man to believe. Can man obey that command? If so, then there is no reason man cannot keep God's other commands as the command to repent or the command to be baptized.
You take Isa 64:6 out of context. Isa 64:5 God's helps those that work righteousness and in Acts 10:35 God accepts those that work righteousness, their righteousness obviously is not treated as filthy rags. Whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, 1 Jn 3:10 No way possible one can be of God without doing God's righteousness/obey His commands.
One either is doing righteousness or doing unrighteousness, he is doing one or the other for there is no inbetween.
Atwood wants to argue he does not have to obey/do righteousness to be saved. So if Atwood is not obeying/doing righteousness, then he must be disobedient to God/doing unrighteousness. How many unrighteous people will be saved in their unrighteousness? NONE, 1 Cor 6:9.
Grace will not save one unrighteous person in his unrighteousness. So by trying to do away with doing righteousness to be saved, then Atwood has made it impossible for anyone to be saved.
1 Jn 1:7 if the Christian continues to walk in the light, then Christ's blood continues to cleanse away ALL sins keeping the Christian spotless and witout blame, 2 Pet 3:14. BUt this cleansing will never happen without obedience.
Then it was pointless and senseless on God's part to give commands to man knowing full well men cannot obey those commands. But God gave those commands knowing man could obey those commands.
God commanded man to believe. Can man obey that command? If so, then there is no reason man cannot keep God's other commands as the command to repent or the command to be baptized.
You take Isa 64:6 out of context. Isa 64:5 God's helps those that work righteousness and in Acts 10:35 God accepts those that work righteousness, their righteousness obviously is not treated as filthy rags. Whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, 1 Jn 3:10 No way possible one can be of God without doing God's righteousness/obey His commands.
One either is doing righteousness or doing unrighteousness, he is doing one or the other for there is no inbetween.
Atwood wants to argue he does not have to obey/do righteousness to be saved. So if Atwood is not obeying/doing righteousness, then he must be disobedient to God/doing unrighteousness. How many unrighteous people will be saved in their unrighteousness? NONE, 1 Cor 6:9.
Grace will not save one unrighteous person in his unrighteousness. So by trying to do away with doing righteousness to be saved, then Atwood has made it impossible for anyone to be saved.
God in fact demands it.
This is the only way a man gets saved. You cannot make yourself righteous enough for God to save you. You are saved as a vile sinner or you are not saved. This is the wonder of God's grace. That God would love enough for Christ to die for us while we were estranged from Him. We were most unlovable yet God sent His only begotten Son to die for us.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
This is the only way a man gets saved. You cannot make yourself righteous enough for God to save you. You are saved as a vile sinner or you are not saved. This is the wonder of God's grace. That God would love enough for Christ to die for us while we were estranged from Him. We were most unlovable yet God sent His only begotten Son to die for us.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
P
how much 'unrighteousness' can one do and still be saved?
lots, thank God in Christ Jesus!
we must have a very shallow concept of sin, and what an affront it is to our God,
to think it's about us and what we do or don't do.
to not realize just how awful we really are.
and how desperately we need God's grace every minute of every day.
we are totally incapable of living up to the perfect standard of God's Law.
why did the Lord Jesus come full of grace and truth?
why did He suffer the life and death He did if we're so competent?
our sin runs deeper than we can know.
even as saved people, we need forgiveness.
the only way to deal with our sin is to run to God for grace.
we ask Him to forgive the sins we don't even see!
it will never be about what we do.
it will eternally be about the Lord Jesus and what He has done. ♥
lots, thank God in Christ Jesus!
we must have a very shallow concept of sin, and what an affront it is to our God,
to think it's about us and what we do or don't do.
to not realize just how awful we really are.
and how desperately we need God's grace every minute of every day.
we are totally incapable of living up to the perfect standard of God's Law.
why did the Lord Jesus come full of grace and truth?
why did He suffer the life and death He did if we're so competent?
our sin runs deeper than we can know.
even as saved people, we need forgiveness.
the only way to deal with our sin is to run to God for grace.
we ask Him to forgive the sins we don't even see!
it will never be about what we do.
it will eternally be about the Lord Jesus and what He has done. ♥
how much 'unrighteousness' can one do and still be saved?
lots, thank God in Christ Jesus!
we must have a very shallow concept of sin, and what an affront it is to our God,
to think it's about us and what we do or don't do.
to not realize just how awful we really are.
and how desperately we need God's grace every minute of every day.
we are totally incapable of living up to the perfect standard of God's Law.
why did the Lord Jesus come full of grace and truth?
why did He suffer the life and death He did if we're so competent?
our sin runs deeper than we can know.
even as saved people, we need forgiveness.
the only way to deal with our sin is to run to God for grace.
we ask Him to forgive the sins we don't even see!
it will never be about what we do.
it will eternally be about the Lord Jesus and what He has done. ♥
lots, thank God in Christ Jesus!
we must have a very shallow concept of sin, and what an affront it is to our God,
to think it's about us and what we do or don't do.
to not realize just how awful we really are.
and how desperately we need God's grace every minute of every day.
we are totally incapable of living up to the perfect standard of God's Law.
why did the Lord Jesus come full of grace and truth?
why did He suffer the life and death He did if we're so competent?
our sin runs deeper than we can know.
even as saved people, we need forgiveness.
the only way to deal with our sin is to run to God for grace.
we ask Him to forgive the sins we don't even see!
it will never be about what we do.
it will eternally be about the Lord Jesus and what He has done. ♥
1 Cor 6:9-11
So if one does not obey, he is unrighteous/lost,
If one obeys he will be accused by some of trying to earn salvation.
So what's a man to do, obey or disobey?
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