Once Lost Always Lost?

[eternally-gratefull]

I see, thank you for explaining. Though Jesus did say that
some sin was greater than others, so He made a distinction.

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

I hope you do not think James contradicted Jesus..

when it comes to salvation, All sin is equal.

 

[valiant]

As to the general discussion, what is the point of faith if people were elected and are either saved or condemned from birth?

those who are elect believe. That is the channel through which they are saved,

 

[John146]

Believe is a bad word for a Calvinist. Belief is personal. If God chose you to believe, how is it personal? Ultimately, the person had no choice in the matter.

those who are elect believe. That is the channel through which they are saved,

 

[notuptome]

When Adam ate he received the knowledge of good and evil. Man has the ability and therefore the duty to choose. God knows the choice before we do but God does not make the choice for us.

Man uses his self will to choose whom he will follow. If man submits his self will to the will of God man receives grace and is saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Magenta]

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
I hope you do not think James contradicted Jesus..
when it comes to salvation, All sin is equal.

I hope you are not denying that Jesus made a distinction.
It sometimes seems too difficult for others to admit to a simple truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I hope you are not denying that Jesus made a distinction.
It sometimes seems too difficult for others to admit to a simple truth.

So Jesus contradicted James?

Yes I am.

Jesus never made a disctinction that some sin makes us less saved than other sins.

Yes some sins are worse (on society, like murder) but a liar is just as guilty and just as worthy of eternal condemnation as a murderer.

This is what the law states..

 

[WebersHome]

I have never seen a court of law impose the death sentence for
dishonesty.

The Great White Throne event on display at Rev 20:11-15 depicts a degree
of criminal justice severe beyond reason.

†. Rev 21:68 . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and
brimstone, which is the second death.

I would say that execution for dishonesty, by a mode of death akin to a
foundry worker falling into a vat of molten iron, easily qualifies as cruel and
unusual punishment.

The wrath of God is interesting. For example:

†. Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of Christ comes-- cruel; with both wrath and
fierce anger

The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is 'ebrah (eb-raw') which
indicates an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God won't be
weeping big wet crocodile tears while it's slamming the dead at the Great
White Throne event; no, they will be terminated with extreme prejudice; viz:
their judgment will be administered with choler. (cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)

Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals
that inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in
attack. Ferocity is an aspect commonly seen among roaring, snarling lions
savagely attacking prey. There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in
ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality, and blood lust.

"cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of
humane feelings

†. Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation

"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation. It
speaks of someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that they're
actually red in the face.

There are people out there in pews all around the world who have been so
coddled by sappy versions of Christianity that they have no concept of the
magnitude of the lethal tsunami of rage and violence coming their way to
get them.

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[Magenta]

So Jesus contradicted James?
Yes I am.
Jesus never made a disctinction that some sin makes us less saved than other sins.
Yes some sins are worse (on society, like murder) but a liar is just as guilty and just as worthy of eternal condemnation as a murderer.
This is what the law states..

Jesus did make a distinction between sins. Saying that is just
a human idea was why I brought that to the conversation. Here:

I assume he just used a simple example, the bible is clear that the penalty of sin is death, so by God's standard a lie does lead to a death sentence. It's just us humans that try to make some sins so much worse than others

I see, thank you for explaining. Though Jesus did say that
some sin was greater than others, so He made a distinction.

 

[dcontroversal]

It does say the smoke of their torment ascends forever before the throne of God........

 

[DP]

-
†. Rev 20:11-13 . . I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before
the throne, and books were opened; and the dead were judged from the
things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

According to the Bible, the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23) and I suspect
that means death for each sin.

For example; let's say that someone has to answer for 250 acts of
dishonesty. Well; in order to satisfy justice for each of those 250 acts, they
would have to undergo the death penalty 250 times; viz: one death per one
act.

In other words; in order to satisfy justice, the serial liar would have to be
executed and resurrected 250 times. But that is not likely to happen seeing
as how Dan 12:2 and John 5:28-29 testify that there is but one resurrection
allotted per person; which of course serial liars will use up in order to stand
and face justice.

So then, when the serial liar is terminated in the lake of brimstone, they will
have to stay there with a balance of 249 counts of dishonesty on the books
for which they will never have enough lives to give in exchange.

==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==

Rev 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened:and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
KJV

Your version leaves out that "book of life" being used also. If those were all immediately already assigned to perish, there would be no reason to compare them with that "book of life".

The "dead" in that time mean the "resurrection of damnation" of John 5:28-29. They are spiritually dead, still being liable to perish in the lake of fire. They are not literally dead in graves not having been resurrected. They are the nations shown earlier in Rev.20 during Christ's thousand years reign.

 

[DP]

I assume he just used a simple example, the bible is clear that the penalty of sin is death, so by God's standard a lie does lead to a death sentence. It's just us humans that try to make some sins so much worse than others

As to the general discussion, what is the point of faith if people were elected and are either saved or condemned from birth?

To know what God deems as punishment for breaking His laws, one first has to understand His laws given through Moses back in the OT, for like Apostle John said, sin is the transgression of the law.

I really doubt there's that many here that familiar with God's laws and judgments back in the OT, so lot of this argument here is moot. Just say anyone without Christ's Blood shed on the cross to cover their sins is doomed to perish in the lake of fire, and be done with it.

 

[WebersHome]

Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love.

There are people locked up in hell right now, even as we speak, for whom
His grace, His mercy, and His love are not everlasting. They are permanent
outcasts who have only full-body immersion is flaming sulfur to look forward
to; and a number of them can't be trusted to tell the truth.

†. Rev 21:8 . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and
brimstone, which is the second death.

†. Rev 21:27 . . No one who practices lying, shall ever come into [the holy
city, the New Jerusalem] but only those whose names are written in the
Lamb's book of life.

Q: What are some examples of dishonesty?

A: Deceit, dissembling, fraud, falsehood, half truths, plagiarism, cheating,
Ponzi schemes, white lies, bald faced lies, fibs, forgery, pretenses, smoke
and mirrors, impersonation, insincerity, hypocrisy, red herrings, double
dealing, double speak, spinning, clever sophistry, fake ID's, broken promises,
and treachery; et al.

Dissembling can be defined as concealing your true thoughts and feelings by
giving people the impression that you think and/or feel other than what you
really think and/or feel.

Dissembling is a very common form of dishonesty and I suspect that it's going
to send a pretty good number of otherwise decent folk straight to hell right along
with the likes of Bernie Madoff.

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[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Q: What are some examples of dishonesty?

A: Deceit, dissembling, fraud, falsehood, half truths, plagiarism, cheating,
Ponzi schemes, white lies, bald faced lies, fibs, forgery, pretenses, smoke
and mirrors, impersonation, insincerity, hypocrisy, red herrings, double
dealing, double speak, spinning, clever sophistry, fake ID's, broken promises,
and treachery; et al.

Dissembling can be defined as concealing your true thoughts and feelings by
giving people the impression that you think and/or feel other than what you
really think and/or feel.

Dissembling is a very common form of dishonesty and I suspect that it's going
to send a pretty good number of otherwise decent folk straight to hell right along
with the likes of Bernie Madoff.

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That's a bit extreme

You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, because my time is not yet completed. And [when Jesus] had said these [things], he remained in Galilee. But when his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not openly, but (as it were) in secret. John 7:8-10​

 

[WebersHome]

You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, because my time is
not yet completed. And [when Jesus] had said these [things], he remained
in Galilee. But when his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went
up, not openly, but (as it were) in secret. John 7:8-10

How is your quote related to dissembling as per post #32?

=====================================

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How is your quote related to dissembling as per post #32?

=====================================

Because what you described and what Jesus did sound very much alike.

 

[WebersHome]

Because what you described and what Jesus did sound very much
alike.

I cannot be held responsible for what my comments "sound like" to people.

But you need to be aware that genuine dissembling is an evil.

†. Prov 26:24-26 . . A malicious man disguises himself with his lips, but in
his heart he harbors deceit. Though his speech is charming, do not believe
him, for seven abominations fill his heart. His malice may be concealed by
deception, but his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.

You know, one of the things I look forward to observing at the Great White
Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 is that people's secrets will be
exposed. In other words: I'm finally going to find out who my real friends
were and those who were pretending to be my friend the meanwhile sticking
knives in my back.

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