Paul taught opposite to what Jesus said?

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Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#21
When Jesus says, "there's one God..", muslims clap, when He says "..The Father and the son are one..", they frown and attack Paul.

When He says, ..the Father is greater than the son, they clap; when He says "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father..", they frown and attack Paul.

When he says the Father is the one true God, they clap but when He says honor the son even as you honor the Father, they frown and attack Paul.

When He says He came for the lost sheep of Israel, they clap, but when He declares He is the light of world, they frown and attack Paul.

When they are engaged in scriptures and shown the truth, they change and say the scriptures are corrupted.
Well, i'll tell you as a friend, what Jesus taught, is 100% in line with what Paul taught and Paul even expounded further.

I'll explain one thing here, a basic misconception (lie) that forms the most fundamental doctrine for Islam.

ONE GOD

Muslims often attack Paul and Christianity for not adhering to the greatest commandment and basic truth which is ONE GOD.
But what does ONE really mean?
We have at least two meanings:

One as a unit of measure; this simply means 'single unit' and only applies to material things that have a form (definite size/shape/boundaries that we can behold)- boundaries that show clear separation from the next. We can say one orange/one car/one house but we can not say one air or one darkness not unless it is contained in a container that gives it definite shape.
Even the one used in measurement- one kilogram/one kilometer is only applicable because the measurement have boundaries that separate one measure from the next.
This kind of one, does not describe the True God.

One= alone; this kind of one describes God's attribute. Like He alone can save/ He alone is immortal/ He alone is all knowing.
We know God of the bible is immaterial (spirit) and no one has understood/seen His form- therefore the oneness of God as described in the bible is with regards to His attributes. The numbers game doesn't arise at all.

The muslim god has claimed to be a single unit, this is how i know he's a false god/an idol, because if he is a single unit, then he is made of material and has a form (definite shape/size/boundaries), if he is material, then material was never created and hence the material universe was also not created.

How do i know he is a single unit rather than claiming to be alone? in several places he tells muslims 'do not say three..', surely, the three in that statement means three units so they should stick to one unit.

Cheers.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
#23
Paul's teachings were for salvation.
Jesus' teachings were for discipleship.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
#25
Since words can be true or words can be lies, if the scriptures are teaching you that Jesus is God then how can a person be an antichrist if they believe the scriptures teach Jesus is God?
Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

These "MANY" are to "come in Christ's Name" and they will preach that Jesus is truly the Christ, and they "SHALL" deceive many.

Note here Jesus could have warned against Jews, Muslims, Atheists as those who would deceive us but His Didn't. He warned us of a very specific group of people. And the description Jesus gave describes only one people. and that is "Christianity". A hard pill for most to swallow.
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
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#26
Apostles don't take a U turn from the teachings of their masters

Nope they sure dont, they expound on it with many words trying to give a deeper understanding

Jesus...

Matthew 7 : Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"



[/FONT]
Paul...

Romans 2 ..."Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man,
whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?


Beginning with the principle word, and giving expounding insight , deeper understanding of the principle, NEVER omitting or altering any principle set forth By the Lord.But rather giving an understanding to Live By the things Jesus said.
Paul continues in romans 2 " Or despisest thou
the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; <<v 2)

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."


Paul was Not speaking something New, He agian was expounding on things Like this that Jesus spoke forth...

John 5 " For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
Matthew 25 " When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

the righteous Loved One another in deed and truth.


41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did itnot to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."


same thing paul says of Judgement. lol probably Because Jesus is the Judge it would Not be wise to reject the Judges testimony, all 12 apostles received the same Gospel, Paul....by revelation because He didnt follow Jesus when He was on Earth. Paul Never parts from the " Law and Prophets " testimony of Jesus, Nor the Gospel teachings of Jesus. all it really is is another whisper to People " Dont Listen to what Jesus said, He will lead you astray thats Not for you.....understan things this other way" echoes from Eden....we Know the truth and Have it Laid out before us.
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#27
When Jesus says, "there's one God..", muslims clap, when He says "..The Father and the son are one..", they frown and attack Paul.

When He says, ..the Father is greater than the son, they clap; when He says "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father..", they frown and attack Paul.

When he says the Father is the one true God, they clap but when He says honor the son even as you honor the Father, they frown and attack Paul.

When He says He came for the lost sheep of Israel, they clap, but when He declares He is the light of world, they frown and attack Paul.

When they are engaged in scriptures and shown the truth, they change and say the scriptures are corrupted.
Well, i'll tell you as a friend, what Jesus taught, is 100% in line with what Paul taught and Paul even expounded further.

I'll explain one thing here, a basic misconception (lie) that forms the most fundamental doctrine for Islam.

ONE GOD

Muslims often attack Paul and Christianity for not adhering to the greatest commandment and basic truth which is ONE GOD.
But what does ONE really mean?
We have at least two meanings:

One as a unit of measure; this simply means 'single unit' and only applies to material things that have a form (definite size/shape/boundaries that we can behold)- boundaries that show clear separation from the next. We can say one orange/one car/one house but we can not say one air or one darkness not unless it is contained in a container that gives it definite shape.
Even the one used in measurement- one kilogram/one kilometer is only applicable because the measurement have boundaries that separate one measure from the next.
This kind of one, does not describe the True God.

One= alone; this kind of one describes God's attribute. Like He alone can save/ He alone is immortal/ He alone is all knowing.
We know God of the bible is immaterial (spirit) and no one has understood/seen His form- therefore the oneness of God as described in the bible is with regards to His attributes. The numbers game doesn't arise at all.

The muslim god has claimed to be a single unit, this is how i know he's a false god/an idol, because if he is a single unit, then he is made of material and has a form (definite shape/size/boundaries), if he is material, then material was never created and hence the material universe was also not created.

How do i know he is a single unit rather than claiming to be alone? in several places he tells muslims 'do not say three..', surely, the three in that statement means three units so they should stick to one unit.

Cheers.

God is a spirit, He cannot be seen. How does God who is a spirit, appear to man who is flesh? God who is spirit has a Son, who is Born and Made of the flesh of Man, yet His Father, is the Holy Spirit of God. even practically speaking

matthew 1 " Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].......[/FONT] behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

the rest of the account is found in Luke.

"God with us" is a reference to the Holy spirit that Fathered and was in Jesus, He is literally the Son of God. He came out from God His spirit, His flesh, is made of Mankind. God is Not a Man scripture is clear about this. the Christ is Not God, Nor is He Man. He is the Mediation, the Only Mediation between God and Man. He is Both the Son of God, who is spirit. and He is the Son of Man, who is flesh and blood.

the doctrine of the Bible, says that Jesus procedded forth from God, was with God before the creation of the World, was Named, before the creation of the World. was slain before the creation of the World, ascended into, and came to us from Heaven, was annointed exclusivesly to preach the year of the Lords favor, to announce the Gospel. the One whom God would call His Son, the One who God promised to send, promised to seat at His right Hand, ......Jesus is the Son of God. God is the Father of Jesus. there is a distinction.

Man can Be temted of evil. God cannot be tempted of evil. Jesus was Led By the spirit, to be tempted of the devil.

Jesus was seen by many, touched By Many, God has Not Been seen but By Jesus, says John, who walked and spoke with Jesus and even saw Him at His transfiguration in His glory. when God showed up and said " This is My Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, Hear Him"


which Peter who was One of the three witnesses of this Later states " Jesus Received Honor and Glory from God the Father when He spoke from Heaven saying " this is My Son in whom i am well pleased" when we were witnesses of this on the Holy Mount..... The Gospel is about the God of Israel, sending His Only Begotten Son, to Be both savior and Lord. God is the spirit, anyone who receives the Holy spirit, then has the presence of God living in them. the same spirit of God that Fathered Jesus, comes to Live in us, " God with us"...is " the spirit with Us" the spirit that is in Christ Jesus, the Son of the Living God. He is One with God, we are One with Him. Father, Son, Holy spitit...in US.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,471
12,942
113
#28
God who is spirit has a Son, who is Born and Made of the flesh of Man, yet His Father, is the Holy Spirit of God...
The Father cannot be the Holy Spirit or the Son
The Son cannot be the Holy Spirit or the Father
The Holy Spirit cannot be the Father or the Son

The triune Godhead is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, ONE GOD ETERNALLY EXISTENT AS THREE PERSONS.

You said "...yet His Father is the Holy Spirit of God". That is not true. God the Father (generally called "God" in the NT), had an ETERNAL Father-Son relationship with God the Word (John 1:1). But He sent the Holy Spirit to give the virgin Mary a SUPERNATURAL CONCEPTION. However, that was not the point at which the Father-Son relationship was established. Jesus was the Son of God from eternity. And He is also God. The Holy Spirit is also God.

People calling themselves Christians will say that they do not believe in the Trinity and neither do they believe in the Deity of Christ. Yet they call themselves Christians. That cannot be, since it is God our Savior who died for our sins at Calvary,
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#29
God is a spirit, He cannot be seen. How does God who is a spirit, appear to man who is flesh? God who is spirit has a Son, who is Born and Made of the flesh of Man, yet His Father, is the Holy Spirit of God. even practically speaking

matthew 1 " Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost........ behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

the rest of the account is found in Luke.

"God with us" is a reference to the Holy spirit that Fathered and was in Jesus, He is literally the Son of God. He came out from God His spirit, His flesh, is made of Mankind. God is Not a Man scripture is clear about this. the Christ is Not God, Nor is He Man. He is the Mediation, the Only Mediation between God and Man. He is Both the Son of God, who is spirit. and He is the Son of Man, who is flesh and blood.

the doctrine of the Bible, says that Jesus procedded forth from God, was with God before the creation of the World, was Named, before the creation of the World. was slain before the creation of the World, ascended into, and came to us from Heaven, was annointed exclusivesly to preach the year of the Lords favor, to announce the Gospel. the One whom God would call His Son, the One who God promised to send, promised to seat at His right Hand, ......Jesus is the Son of God. God is the Father of Jesus. there is a distinction.

Man can Be temted of evil. God cannot be tempted of evil. Jesus was Led By the spirit, to be tempted of the devil.

Jesus was seen by many, touched By Many, God has Not Been seen but By Jesus, says John, who walked and spoke with Jesus and even saw Him at His transfiguration in His glory. when God showed up and said " This is My Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, Hear Him"


which Peter who was One of the three witnesses of this Later states " Jesus Received Honor and Glory from God the Father when He spoke from Heaven saying " this is My Son in whom i am well pleased" when we were witnesses of this on the Holy Mount..... The Gospel is about the God of Israel, sending His Only Begotten Son, to Be both savior and Lord. God is the spirit, anyone who receives the Holy spirit, then has the presence of God living in them. the same spirit of God that Fathered Jesus, comes to Live in us, " God with us"...is " the spirit with Us" the spirit that is in Christ Jesus, the Son of the Living God. He is One with God, we are One with Him. Father, Son, Holy spitit...in US.
You are right and wrong so generally wrong because right and wrong don't go hand in hand.

If the Holy spirit is the Father, then how come:

Rom 8:15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

The Father/Son/Holy spirit are ONE.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#30
The Father cannot be the Holy Spirit or the Son
The Son cannot be the Holy Spirit or the Father
The Holy Spirit cannot be the Father or the Son

The triune Godhead is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, ONE GOD ETERNALLY EXISTENT AS THREE PERSONS.

You said "...yet His Father is the Holy Spirit of God". That is not true. God the Father (generally called "God" in the NT), had an ETERNAL Father-Son relationship with God the Word (John 1:1). But He sent the Holy Spirit to give the virgin Mary a SUPERNATURAL CONCEPTION. However, that was not the point at which the Father-Son relationship was established. Jesus was the Son of God from eternity. And He is also God. The Holy Spirit is also God.

People calling themselves Christians will say that they do not believe in the Trinity and neither do they believe in the Deity of Christ. Yet they call themselves Christians. That cannot be, since it is God our Savior who died for our sins at Calvary,
Wrong, there are no scriptures that say:

The Father cannot be the Holy Spirit or the Son
The Son cannot be the Holy Spirit or the Father
The Holy Spirit cannot be the Father or the Son

These are sayings of the church fathers.
The Father/Son/Holy spirit are ONE (they are authorities of God) and you need to learn what this means.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#31
Can you clarify the points in the video. Why is it such that Pauls teaching are opposite to what Jesus taught?

https://youtu.be/3DY-t_Fwxv0
Ah we got a stirrer here........Show me where in Scripture it tells us this....Since all scripture is inspire and I do mean all, do your really think Paul could get away with something like that.....SO, now that that has been removed, the only other option, Believing in the WORD of GOD where so far it is obvious you do not.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
41
48
#32
God is the Father, Jesus is the word of God, and the Holy Spirit is the action behind the spoken word that brought all things into existence.. That is what the books of acts is all about, the works of the Holy Spirit,and in acts, you can see all that came into reality by the works of the Holy Spirit.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
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#33
JOHN 1-2-3.
In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God.

The Same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by Him=Jesus; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

those who 'deny' Paul, deny Christ, plain and simple...
 
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