Please Interpret Matthew 5:38-48

[mpaper345]

The truth is everything is in God's hands,and nothing can happen unless God allows it,which they could not touch Jesus until the time came.

That is why God said do not go against the government,for although that government might not do right sometimes,that government cannot rule,unless God allows it,so to go against the government is to go against God.

So if nothing can happen,unless God allows it,and someone attacks you,and you fight back,it would be wrong,for if someone attacked you,it could only happen because God allowed it,and if God allowed it,then who are we to fight against it.

Jesus said we are to turn the other cheek,to illustrate the point of no physical violence.

Be harmless as doves,and but wise as serpents.

Do not worry about what they can do to the body,but can do no more,but fear God,and do His will,for He can punish worse than that.

Resist evil,which is spiritual.

Resist not evil,which is physical.

Jesus told the disciple in the garden,when he cut off the high priest's servants ear,to put up the sword,for he that uses the sword shall perish with the sword.

When the world fights against the saints,in the beast kingdom,God warns the saints to not fight back,for however they fight back,it will come back on them,for they are fighting for their beliefs,like the world fights for their beliefs,so how are the saints different if they act like them.

The truth is the saints have to be different than the world that physically fights defending what they believe,and nothing can happen unless God allows it,and Jesus,and the Bible tells us not to fight back when attacked,for it will work out how God allows it to work out.

And some saints are not doing right with God,and if not do they have His protection,and if a person does have God's protection,you got to go sometime,and being persecuted is a witness to them that they will not fight back,and not deny Christ.

The message of the Bible is when verbally assaulted,or physically assaulted,do not fight back,according to the flesh,verbally,or physically.

But I understand that can be hard,for one it is a blow to our ego,for we have to allow a 97 lbs. pencil neck geek,dog us out when we weigh 300 lbs,and can bench press 700 lbs.,and a lot of weight with each body part,or are a good fighter,but that is thinking according to the flesh,for we have to take it,and also we want to defend our body,and loved ones,but we have to let God take care of it.

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

 

[sharkwhales]

Are there places where Christians can fight (or even use deadly force, as with veterans), or not? If so, where do we draw the line, since either yes or not could be risky answers here? What does "turn the other cheek" actually mean, and to what degree are we to tolerate abuse before we are permitted to make a whip of chords ourselves?

we can turn the other cheek when the harm is only to ourselves and our private possessions.

we cannot force others to turn their cheek, we cannot force our children to turn their cheek, it's our duty to protect them.

in the same sense that it would be wrong for a father to use this verse to justify letting someone abuse his child, it's wrong for a public servant to allow violence against those he's meant to protect, or for any member of a group to allow his group to be victimized because of his view on violence toward himself.

essentially, you may turn the other cheek when it's on your own behalf, but you can't choose it on others' behalf and abandon them for your own moral high ground.

it's similar to giving an offering, you don't give an offering on someone else's behalf, you only have a right to do it on yours. if someone's robbing you, you don't have to press charges, but if you're an attorney general you have to press charges on behalf of the people even if you personally would overlook a robbery against yourself.

political views built on verses are often a corruption of those verses, because God didnt give us scripture to build a theocracy on it. these are personal choices to be made from the heart, not to be forced on those around us or made on others' behalf. similar to charity, yes it's good, but it's not good to force others to do it, unless it is a pragmatic measure to combat something effecting all of society.

 

[sharkwhales]

I would also go further than that to say there are times when it isn't right to give to someone whatever they ask. To give a homeless person money so they can get a drink and hurt themselves? No.

There are times when it isn't right to allow someone to hurt you. To allow an abusive spouse to beat you up when your kids are watching and they need you to save them out of that situation -- that's not the time.

Ecclesiastes 3 says there is a time for everything. What we need to do is be open to giving and open to laying down our lives when it is what the Holy Spirit is guiding us to do. Doing it out of our own ethics and high-mindedness or 'enlightenment' is not holy and doesn't accomplish God's intention.

But it is a good principle to understand, the more grace and mercy we give to others, the more we are positioned to receive it from God, and then we can give even more to people and it's a powerful force in the spirit realm for the expansion of the kingdom of God.

perhaps another way to say it is that, our personal safety, security, and prosperity is established by seeking the kingdom of God first, instead of seeking justice and survival our own way.

 

[abcdef]

Hi Elijah19,

In Jn 2:13-17 Jesus loved Israel and the people He chased out at the temple. He was being very merciful considering that the temple had been turned into a stable with manure and stench everywhere. I suppose that if you went to church to worship and the building was filled was manure you too might be a little upset. He wouldn't be so merciful 35 yrs later when the Romans destroyed the temple.
It was all about the money, not God and His love. Who let those people do these things? The temple priests who were supposed to keep the temple sacred. Jesus could have withdrawn all the blessings of God on them right there, but He didn't, He wanted them to change their ways. God is always loving, but sometimes we make it harder for Him, these people were insulting God. What they did is something that enemies would do to insult the gods of a conquered people, make their temple a dung heap.

 

[BollWeevil]

What concerns me is that Christians are overrun in other countries and have become extinct.

I'm not aware of Christians having become extinct. Of course some areas and countries have more hatred toward and killings of Christians. Christians have been overrun since the first century. Christianity has not become extinct neither did Christians when so many were killed at the beginning of the movement; first 3-4 centuries. The vast majority of the early Christians did not fight back and were not violent when persecuted. God did not spare the disciples when He could have. He allowed them to be killed prematurely when they could have continued to spread the gospel even longer to more people. There are more Christians today than 1800 years ago. Will Christians die, yes? God tells us we will be persecuted and Christ warned the disciples. Are we not disciples of Jesus. Yes it's terrible that Christians are persecuted and murdered; however violence is not the way Jesus taught His people to live

 

[BollWeevil]

I would also go further than that to say there are times when it isn't right to give to someone whatever they ask. To give a homeless person money so they can get a drink and hurt themselves? No.

There are times when it isn't right to allow someone to hurt you. To allow an abusive spouse to beat you up when your kids are watching and they need you to save them out of that situation -- that's not the time.

Ecclesiastes 3 says there is a time for everything. What we need to do is be open to giving and open to laying down our lives when it is what the Holy Spirit is guiding us to do. Doing it out of our own ethics and high-mindedness or 'enlightenment' is not holy and doesn't accomplish God's intention.

But it is a good principle to understand, the more grace and mercy we give to others, the more we are positioned to receive it from God, and then we can give even more to people and it's a powerful force in the spirit realm for the expansion of the kingdom of God.

perhaps another way to say it is that, our personal safety, security, and prosperity is established by seeking the kingdom of God first, instead of seeking justice and survival our own way.

"I would also go further than that to say there are times when it isn't right to give to someone whatever they ask. To give a homeless person money so they can get a drink and hurt themselves? No".

Luke 6:27-36 “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.

Very clear what Jesus is saying. Also He is not saying what to give. One does not have to give money, I hardly ever do. Give food, gas, hotel room, pay bills, whatever they are in need of. I have personally observed too much judgement by Christians when it comes to people asking for something, and helping them. Give a homeless person a bath, a place to sleep, help in getting them back on their feet, pay for addiction help. Again, I see Jesus being clear not just in this verse but in His whole ministry to always help others, especially if they ask you for something (we are called to be servants just as Jesus was) . Even if you did give just money have you not done your part in helping them? It's not up to us to judge their heart as to what they intend to do with the money. Who are we to deny someone because we are arrogant enough to know what someone else will do. We can judge the fruit (action) of someone, not the heart.

I do appreciate your words stated below.
"But it is a good principle to understand, the more grace and mercy we give to others, the more we are positioned to receive it from God, and then we can give even more to people and it's a powerful force in the spirit realm for the expansion of the kingdom of God.

perhaps another way to say it is that, our personal safety, security, and prosperity is established by seeking the kingdom of God first, instead of seeking justice and survival our own way."

 

[Embankment]

As is the lesson of Matt 5.
Jesus is teaching us the power and absolute nature of the law. Because under the law we have no no way or no one to redeem us for our sin. Therefore we must live life perfectly and without sin to please God. If someone steals from us we must not resist him because to resist is anger and anger is hate and hate is murder. We are in violation of the Law.
Jesus being God and sinless can interpret mans motives such as the situation with the money changers.

After the cross. We are redeemed followers of God.
We now have the freedom to interpret situations because the Holy Spirit guides us. We are forgiven people and not under penalty of the law.

 

[garee]

I would offer what we are informed of in Mathew 10:15-17.

A peaceful dove will not start anything but a serpent will not allow anyone step on its head with out trying to defend. Christ desires we live for him .Dead men cannot share the gospel.

If someone steals from us we have the local authority to handle the matter.

Vengeance belongs to Him.

Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; Mathew 10:15-17

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

This, however, seemed to contradict John 2:15 where Jesus drives out the money changers at the temple in rage with a whip of chords.

Please be aware that Jesus used the whip on the animals, not on people. Whipping people would be so contrary to his nature.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

What Matthew 5.38-48 means is that, instead of we lost time fighting against the wicked, we ought to stay faithful in Christ along with the enemies that the Eternal has placed in our lives to love with His love (Matthew 5:44, 45).

 

[MattforJesus]

I know many people believe that they can fight against people in certain situations, and it is hard for us to take a beating without wanting to fight back, and even more harder to not fight if our loved ones, or our nation is attacked.

But it is all in God's hands, and nothing can happen unless God allows it, and the saints have to be different than the world in love, so we have to not fight verbally, and not fight physically, to be different than the world that fights verbally, and physically, to be called the children of God.

Good thing we can repent of our sins, for we might fight back verbally, or physically, but we are not supposed to do that and if we do it is a sin.

I do not believe that anything will happen to a saint if God has a purpose for them for they must accomplish that purpose, like they could not lay a hand on Jesus until the time came.

And there is many hypocrites that does not allow the Spirit to lead them so they may have opposition against them and God does not prevent it.

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

We are to resist evil spiritually.

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

Jas 5:6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

But we do not resist evil physically.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

No nation can rule, or have any kind of dominion on earth, unless God allows it, and what He allows we cannot go against and be right with God.

Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

God is in control, and nothing can happen unless God allows it, so we do not avenge ourselves, but we let God take care of the situation how He sees fit.

Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?

God does not justify war in the New Testament among the saints, for He does not operate that way in the New Testament, which He operated that way in the Old Testament to protect Israel, because they are His people, which a Gentile becomes a Jew inward, and part of the commonwealth of Israel when saved, and Jesus was to come through Israel to provide salvation.

And also God had to keep the nations and kingdoms from getting too out of hand of spreading their falsehood influencing many people, and being physically cruel, which an example is Babylon, which is actually the greatest Gentile kingdom ever, which is represented as gold, and rode on eagle's wings, the revelation of God, and from then on the kingdoms became more and more inferior.

Which king Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged the God of Israel as the greatest God of the gods, and proclaimed throughout his kingdom that everyone acknowledge the God of Israel, and if anyone said anything amiss about the God of Israel would be cut in pieces, and his house made a dunghill.

The king believed that until the day he died, but when his son took the throne he took the vessels out of the temple of God, and drank out of them praising false gods, so God stripped the kingdom from Babylon, which means the eagle's wings were plucked, and gave the kingdom to the Medes and Persians.

Babylon then stood up on the feet as a man, which means Babylon represents the kingdom of man, for the more you know and blow it the harder you fall.

Which the Bible says that Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and the Roman Empire, have not fallen yet until Jesus put them down, and their ways all show up at the beast kingdom, for as long as their ways are on earth they have not fallen, which Babylon represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man, which the beast kingdom has the spirit of Babylon for it is the kingdom of man, and Medo-Persia represents physical cruelty as they try to take away everyone that opposes their kingdom, and Greece represents human wisdom, and the Roman Empire represents pushing for power, world domination, which when the nations come together they will devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces.

So all 4 kingdoms are at the beast kingdom, for it is the kingdom of man in it's entirety, and does not acknowledge a personal God, which no kingdom in the past has been the kingdom of man in it's entirety, so it is over for human dominion on earth, and Jesus will defeat the world.

We are not to fight physically because it is all in God's hands, and in His control, and nothing can happen unless God allows it, so if opposition to you there is no need to fight, for if it happens God is allowing it, and they could not touch Jesus until the time came, so God can also keep opposition from coming against you.

And as far as nation, no nation can rule unless God allows it, so if their nation is attacked there is no need for the Christians to fight, for God will determine the outcome, or allow what He will allow, for if He wants that country to stand, it will stand, and if He wants that country to fall, it will fall, which does not mean God does it Himself, but allows the evil spirits to influence them to war, which at the beast kingdom the devils will deceive all people who do not love God to follow the beast kingdom, which they will war against everyone that goes against their kingdom, for it time for God to end this sin business on earth.

God is in control, and nothing can happen unless He allows it to happen, so there is no need to fight verbally, or physically, for whatever happens will happen, and if you fight verbally, or physically, you do not want to be going against God, and He will handle it according to how He sees fit.

I know it is hard to not fight back, especially according to the pride of our flesh that we do not want to be put down like that, and want revenge, and in a nation that is motivated by selfishness, arrogance, and self exaltation, for that makes it more difficult.

Joh 2:13 And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,
Joh 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
Joh 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;
Joh 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

Jesus was a pacifist, and as a sinless man He could not hurt anyone, could not lay a hand on anyone, or threaten them.

But people will say what about the cords, and the whipping.

What about the cords and the whipping, for there were animals in the temple, and He wanted to get everyone out of the temple that had to do with selling merchandise contrary to how God meant the temple to operate, which is a house of prayer.

I believe the cords were meant to chase out the animals of the temple, and the overthrowing of the tables, and pouring out of the money, were for the chasing out of the people, for their purpose for being in the temple was thwarted so they would leave.

Which overthrowing the tables, and pouring out the money, has nothing to do with threatening, or physical harm of the people.

So in summary, quit your fighting for it is of the flesh, and not of the Spirit.

Dost thou not understandest.

But it is hard to not fight back at times, and if I did not fight back what I will think about more than the physical hurt is it would hurt my pride to take a beating, and at least not try to win the fight, for who does that guy think he is, or in the aggressive nation that America is, who does that woman think she is, for it may be a woman trying to kick the crap out of you, which would be worse to take a beating.

Sure you might take a beating, but then the shame will be terrible, and the insults terrible, and a lot of people do not want that.

Stupid flesh.

 

[theanointedsinner]

what if someone punch you in the face
and you fell on your knees, would you think that being on your knees is the perfect position to pray for your enemies

or, wonder if you should turn the other cheek and let them punch the other sides ...

I think it's better to pray for your enemies, that Jesus is just giving an illustration just like "plank in eye"

 

[Embankment]

what if someone punch you in the face
and you fell on your knees, would you think that being on your knees is the perfect position to pray for your enemies

or, wonder if you should turn the other cheek and let them punch the other sides ...

I think it's better to pray for your enemies, that Jesus is just giving an illustration just like "plank in eye"

This is much much deeper than an illustration. Jesus is explaining the expectations of the father. We are to be perfect and without any hint of sin or sinful intent. We are to be perfect as the father is perfect or risk eternal damnation.

That is until Jesus paid for our sins at the cross.

 

[BollWeevil]

so we have to not fight verbally, and not fight physically,

I appreciate your thoughts and completely agree with you God does not want us to fight physically. We do have scripture and many examples of Jesus and Christians "fighting" verbally. We are told our sword (Spiritual) is the word. I see the word as the principles' of Jesus: His life, message, actions. We use His principles to reason with people. We have numerous examples, Stephen before he was killed, Paul and other apostles spoke firmly arguing the gospel many times. This is how we confront evil people.

Ephesians 6:10-20 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Acts 5:27-29 When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them, saying, “We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men."

2 Corinthians 3:12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech,

1 Thessalonians 5:14 We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly,
"Admonish" means to encourage by reprimand in a firm way. There are more verses speaking about admonishing.

Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

Acts 19:8 And he entered the synagogue and continued speaking out boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.

Acts 9:27 But Barnabas took hold of him and brought him to the apostles and described to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had talked to him, and how at Damascus he had spoken out boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 And he was with them, moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking out boldly in the name of the Lord. 29 And he was talking and arguing with the Hellenistic Jews ...

Acts 13:46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first

Romans 15:15 But I have written very boldly to you on some points so as to remind you again...


I realize many of these passages are not confronting evil; however we see many times where Jesus and the disciples did speak strongly to people who were in the wrong.

Of course there is a right way to fight evil verbally
Ephesians 4:15 but speaking the truth in love

 

[50C1AL0N3]

We must not leave out wisdom and discernment.
Ecclesiastes says there's a time to kill. When the apostle cut off the high priest ear Christ told him to sheath his sword, not throw it away.
If it's down to a life for a life (or some detrimental action) and a Christian takes a life the spirit and righteousness of God will either comfort or call for repentance. Only the individual and God knows where heart is and core intent from. Was it in malice or fear.
You could hit someone with a car and accidentally kill someone. Wheather you're a killer or a murderer is in your heart and the Holy Spirit within you to know.
Moses took the life of an Egyptian and God chose him to be thee major prophet of the Bible.
In the end it is God that justifies and condemns.
I know if taking the life of someone was necessary (to me) to protect myself or someone I loved, I would, but I already know by doing other henious sins that wheather it was in self defense or not, I would be repenting. I