Question about the New Heaven and the New Earth

[Trax]

Well, there is that whole thing at the beginning of Revelation where it says these things will happen SOON, and the time is near.
Yet I cannot understand why people think all this stuff happens over 2000 years later.

Well, just read what it says and don't mentally change words in your mind, to make it say
something different. Allow me to explain:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which
must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Now, when you read the word "servants", did you automaticlly and mentally interpret that word as "church"
or "christian"? That's not what it says. It says "to show servants things which must shortly happen."
Enoch and Elijah were servants of God. Paul and Peter were servants of God. So which servants
are being pointed out here? It tells you in Rev just who these servants are.
Rev 7:3-4 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed
the servants of our God in their foreheads. (4) And I heard the number of them
which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all
the tribes of the children of Israel.
There are your servants, which by the way, the things in Rev, WILL shortly come to pass
for them. Rev 1:1 says nothing about Christians or the church, but servants.
Rev does give you a group of servants in chapter 7. Those guys are in the midst of it
all. Rev was written so those 144,000 will know what they are about to go through and have
to deal with. (Anti-christ, false prophet, the temple, the mark, God's wrath, etc...)
They going to need special help and God gave them a book. Otherwise they going to be
some more confused about it all. Just getting sealed, new followers of Jesus, up against
the anti-christ and false prophet. Yeah, they going to need help.

 

[mark54]

Ill say it for the third time.
1 this site like other sites get the wide variety of the church in general...nothing different here just more openness
2 Noone really anywhere preaches the Gospel saying Jesus is God so pray that....thats just your bone in the throat.
3 you would get the same thing you get online if you ran around all the churches all over the world with the same

Um, sorry Abiding, your reasoning and conclusions make no sense.
It is not an issue for the ministers in the Trinitarian churches in Britain(and I doubt for many elsewhere), any honest person knows it is nearly always an internet thing.
I repeat, the ministers understand the spiritual reality, would be ministers(people who think they know) on the internet do not

 

[Ariel82]

correction Abiding, most ministers won't push the point unless the person wants to teach or hold leadership positions in church and still hold to doctrine that contradicts the church's doctrine of faith. otherwise they leave it to God to show them the error of their ways.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Keep in mind that John uses "a thousand" and not 1000.

thousand in greek means uncertain affinity(unknown amount of time)

 

[Ariel82]

Well, just read what it says and don't mentally change words in your mind, to make it say
something different. Allow me to explain:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which
must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Now, when you read the word "servants", did you automaticlly and mentally interpret that word as "church"
or "christian"? That's not what it says. It says "to show servants things which must shortly happen."
Enoch and Elijah were servants of God. Paul and Peter were servants of God. So which servants
are being pointed out here? It tells you in Rev just who these servants are.
Rev 7:3-4 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed
the servants of our God in their foreheads. (4) And I heard the number of them
which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all
the tribes of the children of Israel.
There are your servants, which by the way, the things in Rev, WILL shortly come to pass
for them. Rev 1:1 says nothing about Christians or the church, but servants.
Rev does give you a group of servants in chapter 7. Those guys are in the midst of it
all. Rev was written so those 144,000 will know what they are about to go through and have
to deal with. (Anti-christ, false prophet, the temple, the mark, God's wrath, etc...)
They going to need special help and God gave them a book. Otherwise they going to be
some more confused about it all. Just getting sealed, new followers of Jesus, up against
the anti-christ and false prophet. Yeah, they going to need help.

yep and those 144,000 were in the GENERATION that Jesus was born into..

you have the 120 in the upper room in acts. add to it 3000, etc.

 

[Trax]

Keep in mind that John uses "a thousand" and not 1000.

thousand in greek means uncertain affinity(unknown amount of time)

From Adam to Jesus was approx 4000 years
From the cross to Jesus return is looking like approx 2000 years (Half of the 4000)
Jesus reign, well, if the trend continues, approx 1000 years

Why do you think the time is cut in half each time? For the ends of the world to come to Jerusalem
and worship God, at the Temple, was time consuming. When Jesus died on the cross, His blood
cleansed the temple. Now the priest, temple and God, go to the ends of the earth. More
efficient. More people can be reached in half the time. When He returns, and satan bound for 1000
years, and His priest are all over the world and Him in Jerusalem...no one can say, "Prove God
exist." We can say, "ok, follow me". The efficiency is cut in half again.

 

[Tintin]

Elizabeth, please share your line of thinking and how you came to those conclusions.

 

[Trax]

yep and those 144,000 were in the GENERATION that Jesus was born into..

you have the 120 in the upper room in acts. add to it 3000, etc.

No, those guys haven't been sealed yet. Read it: Rev 7:2-3 And I saw another angel ascending from
the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom
it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, (3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees,
till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Do you know why an angel was sent to seal those 144,000? Because no one was left on the earth to
preach to them. Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number,
of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb,
clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
The church isn't there any more. God is going to have to send an angel to seal these guys.
An angel told Cornelius to send for Peter to hear Peter preach. But those 144,000, the rapture
removed all the believers. Angels are sent to seal those 144,000.

 

[Abiding]

really could you give some examples?

Hope some is enuf im lazy:

Isaiah 34:4 All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled u like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. 5 My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed. fulfilled 730bc

Isaiah
24 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.[SUP]4 [/SUP]The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
(this was about the invasion of Israel by Nebuchadnezzar}


Nahum 1:1-5


1 The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God is jealous, and the Lord revengeth; the Lord revengeth, and is furious; the Lord will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the Lord hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.( the subject of this judgment is Ninevah)

 

[Abiding]

Im all for a brand new earth and heaven. Im only saying that in prophetic language
all through scripture it isnt literal.

Peter also said the earth was destroyed in the flood.

 

[Ariel82]

so these scriptures would mean?

[h=3]Revelation 22[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

22 And he showed me a pure[SUP][a][/SUP] river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. [SUP]2 [/SUP]In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. [SUP]5 [/SUP]There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

both an entirely new creation and a renewal of the existing creation are possible and permitted by scripture...

personally i believe that the existing creation will be more or less reformed and restored to original perfection...mainly because of the verse that says 'all creation groans' in waiting for this moment...and i can't imagine all creation suicidally longing for its own final annihilation...

 

[Oceanne]

There are two schools of thought: one is that this earth will be recommissioned and restructered. Then there are those that believe that God will totally wipe this world out and make a brand new earth.
I believe the heaven will be totally new--but what what about the New Earth?

Ezekiel 47:1-12 "Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar. 2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side. 3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles. 4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins. 5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over. 6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river. 7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other. 8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. 9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. 10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. 11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt. 12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine."

Rev. 22:2 "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

If there is to be a new earth then why in Ez. is it mentionned that the waters will be healed. Some do view this as being the nations being saved, so is it literal or spiritual? Or maybe both? Looking at Rev. 22:2 I think it is literal, that's my view.