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E
Dude you have issues.
So me saying the law HAS A PURPOSE is disdaining it?
You are a pharisee. You prove it with every post you make. You can not answer simple questions You ALWAYS twist and walk in circles.
If your going to try to convince anyone of what you believe, you would be smart to humble yourself and start answering questions. Your continued refusal only goes to PROVE to everyone (who does not follow your ways) that you are not a person to be trusted!
This did not answer my questions and was unresponsive.
If you do not wish to discuss things. WHy don;t you go someplace else. Your continued hesitation to answer simple questions is getting old. You have absolutely no desire to discuss things, All yuo wish to do is PUSH you way, and condemn anyone who does not agree with you as HATING GODS LAW. WHich is a LIE
So me saying the law HAS A PURPOSE is disdaining it?
You are a pharisee. You prove it with every post you make. You can not answer simple questions You ALWAYS twist and walk in circles.
If your going to try to convince anyone of what you believe, you would be smart to humble yourself and start answering questions. Your continued refusal only goes to PROVE to everyone (who does not follow your ways) that you are not a person to be trusted!
This did not answer my questions and was unresponsive.
If you do not wish to discuss things. WHy don;t you go someplace else. Your continued hesitation to answer simple questions is getting old. You have absolutely no desire to discuss things, All yuo wish to do is PUSH you way, and condemn anyone who does not agree with you as HATING GODS LAW. WHich is a LIE
E
Complete/fulfilled means that it has COMPLETED ITS PURPOSE.
Why do you want to say its PURPOSE has not stopped? In saying this, You are admitting you do not believe it was completed or fulfilled.
If I am building a car. The law which is given to COMPLETE and FULFILL the events to build that car is not complete until the car is completely built. Once it is COMPLETE AND FULILLED in ALL ARES, The Laws needed to BUILD THE CAR are NO LONGER NEEDED. The process now goes to the laws of HOW TO MAINTAIN THE CAR, which are DIFFERENT LAWS..
And again, You wander why people question you
Why do you want to say its PURPOSE has not stopped? In saying this, You are admitting you do not believe it was completed or fulfilled.
If I am building a car. The law which is given to COMPLETE and FULFILL the events to build that car is not complete until the car is completely built. Once it is COMPLETE AND FULILLED in ALL ARES, The Laws needed to BUILD THE CAR are NO LONGER NEEDED. The process now goes to the laws of HOW TO MAINTAIN THE CAR, which are DIFFERENT LAWS..
And again, You wander why people question you
E
Hey sis, Thanks for adding this. If you read my posts over the long haul, you will see I agree with this.
It is so sad we not only have to fight the LAWyers, but the PERFECTionists. We have not had many in here, but they have shown up. The arguments get just as heated. (by the way Cobus is one of them, he thinks we have to be perfect before we can be saved.)
Anyway, Glorification is the term that describes the time our positional perfection in Christs matches our sanctificational perfection in the flesh (new bodies)
YES!!
Again YES, And thanks for adding this!!
Right. Turning to Law for how to 'live right' also puts the believer under condemnation, again, because that is all the Law can do; it has no power to perfect anything:
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. (from Heb. 7)
And that's why God rendered Law obsolete as a functioning covenant and introduced a better covenant built on better promises by which we draw near to God. A covenant that does make us perfect in Christ, even while we wait for our flesh to be glorified.
Different streams of belief have different formulas and/or laws that they deem it necessary to hold to; some say Torah observance/pursuance is required to 'stay' saved; others believe that repeated confession and repentance is required to 'stay' saved; others hold to an extra-biblical set of rules of conduct. They are trying to 'do' the work that the Holy Spirit has already done, and continues to do by Grace, if they'd only let Him. Unfortunately, they ignore Grace as the Helper He sent by coming under systems/formulas/laws that God does not require of us:
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (from Gal. 5)
We are such poor substitutes for the work of the Spirit and His Grace. We don't get nearly the results He does, either!
Grace or Law? How Then, Shall We Live?
-JGIG
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. (from Heb. 7)
And that's why God rendered Law obsolete as a functioning covenant and introduced a better covenant built on better promises by which we draw near to God. A covenant that does make us perfect in Christ, even while we wait for our flesh to be glorified.
Different streams of belief have different formulas and/or laws that they deem it necessary to hold to; some say Torah observance/pursuance is required to 'stay' saved; others believe that repeated confession and repentance is required to 'stay' saved; others hold to an extra-biblical set of rules of conduct. They are trying to 'do' the work that the Holy Spirit has already done, and continues to do by Grace, if they'd only let Him. Unfortunately, they ignore Grace as the Helper He sent by coming under systems/formulas/laws that God does not require of us:
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (from Gal. 5)
We are such poor substitutes for the work of the Spirit and His Grace. We don't get nearly the results He does, either!
Grace or Law? How Then, Shall We Live?
-JGIG
Our series in Samuel last night spoke to mephiboseth. Amazing window into Gods grace.
Here yuo have a Son of saul. WHo by all means should have been killed so as to kill the line of kingship (which was always done in those days) He hid (as we try to Hide from God and just imagine he wont find us to condemn us) but David found him. Imagine coming into the throne room, And David calling him by name. KNOWING he was worthy of death. What did he say? "What is your servant that you should look to a DEAD DOG such as I"
What was davids answer? I give yuo the land, and yuo will eat at my table as my sin. This is true grace
Or how about Paul. Who was confronted by Christ himself. A man who killed Christians. Then to come face to face with the one you came against, Imagine what he thought?? "I AM DONE" Yet what Did God do??
I am going to send you to give my message to the gentiles..
Wow!
This is what the law does to us. It makes us understand "We are dead Dogs"
This allows God to show us grace, "I prepair a place for you. And you will eat at my table"
E
He did not leave us to our own devises.
Your problem is, Your trying to follow the device which can do nothing but show your guilt, and condemn you.
We follow the devises which are for children of God. Not for which is to show us our guilt. and LEAD us to Christ.
How can it be a protection which all it can do is kill you? That is not protection. That is devastation.
Never said it was.
The law can not tell us how not to sin, It only tells us what sin is. And how impossible it is to complete or fuflill it
Yep. the Pharisees thought this too. How does it feel to be equal to them?
Your problem is, Your trying to follow the device which can do nothing but show your guilt, and condemn you.
We follow the devises which are for children of God. Not for which is to show us our guilt. and LEAD us to Christ.
How can it be a protection which all it can do is kill you? That is not protection. That is devastation.
Never said it was.
The law can not tell us how not to sin, It only tells us what sin is. And how impossible it is to complete or fuflill it
Yep. the Pharisees thought this too. How does it feel to be equal to them?
E
Yes!
It is like a person who is saved from a horrific death because of something they did.
That person does not ever need to be told that doing that thing is dangerous again, He KNOWS! He is not going to keep on doing the thing which almost killed him.
This is what the law does. It shows us that our sins have caused us to come so close to a horrific death. And Then God comes in and saves us.
Those true saved NEVER have to be told that the things they did which caused them to come so close to eternal death, Because THEY KNOW.
While yes Ibecause they are still so flawed with the flesh) they will continue to make the same mistakes, They do not have to continually be told (by the law) that they are sins. THEY ALREADY KNOW. and have ALREADY been saved from the penalty of doing those things.
God will bring to remembrance what they were saved from when they sin (chastening) they again do not need the law to do this.
Maturity will help us commit those sins less and less. (We come to God as babies no matter how old we are physically, A baby has to Grow. A New child of God will automaticially in one minute become a super Paul like mature Christian. They must grow!
It is like a person who is saved from a horrific death because of something they did.
That person does not ever need to be told that doing that thing is dangerous again, He KNOWS! He is not going to keep on doing the thing which almost killed him.
This is what the law does. It shows us that our sins have caused us to come so close to a horrific death. And Then God comes in and saves us.
Those true saved NEVER have to be told that the things they did which caused them to come so close to eternal death, Because THEY KNOW.
While yes Ibecause they are still so flawed with the flesh) they will continue to make the same mistakes, They do not have to continually be told (by the law) that they are sins. THEY ALREADY KNOW. and have ALREADY been saved from the penalty of doing those things.
God will bring to remembrance what they were saved from when they sin (chastening) they again do not need the law to do this.
Maturity will help us commit those sins less and less. (We come to God as babies no matter how old we are physically, A baby has to Grow. A New child of God will automaticially in one minute become a super Paul like mature Christian. They must grow!
The picture of what a Christian is that is taught by some here is just the opposite of what bible teaches.
According to them, everything is done for them. Christ fulfilled. I just filled my cup with coffee, the cup fulfilled its purpose of holding the coffee so I can use it, just as Christ fulfilled the work of the blood, so now we can throw that out and I better throw out my coffee according to them.
Christ made them perfect, so that is done they say. It is all God sees of them, it blinds God's eyes to any sin the law points out, so they can strut along through life, no need to be humble before the Lord or listen to those awful laws God gives.
The picture God paints of us as we walk in Christ is a lot different. We humbly listen to His guidance and follow Him in all we do, it is a daily walk we are to participate in. We have a goal of the prize of living all of our life as that cleansed person we can be in Christ, but we watch to clean the fleshly desires in us, always looking to Christ and listening to Him to do that.
Christ says that He doesn't hear the arrogant person these people tell us to be, beating their chests in triumph over how they are now perfect in Christ without them lifting a dainty little finger to achieve it. They only use faith, and it is a faith only in part of the word of the Lord for their faith does not require any action. Biblical faith is a faith that makes the laws and God so dependable they can be acted on, but they have been made so perfect, magically, that they need not act. They only need to strut through life telling people how wonderful they are and Christ simply did everything, they didn't have to participate. They eliminated any law through Christ, so nothing stands in the way of that participation in Christ.
According to them, everything is done for them. Christ fulfilled. I just filled my cup with coffee, the cup fulfilled its purpose of holding the coffee so I can use it, just as Christ fulfilled the work of the blood, so now we can throw that out and I better throw out my coffee according to them.
Christ made them perfect, so that is done they say. It is all God sees of them, it blinds God's eyes to any sin the law points out, so they can strut along through life, no need to be humble before the Lord or listen to those awful laws God gives.
The picture God paints of us as we walk in Christ is a lot different. We humbly listen to His guidance and follow Him in all we do, it is a daily walk we are to participate in. We have a goal of the prize of living all of our life as that cleansed person we can be in Christ, but we watch to clean the fleshly desires in us, always looking to Christ and listening to Him to do that.
Christ says that He doesn't hear the arrogant person these people tell us to be, beating their chests in triumph over how they are now perfect in Christ without them lifting a dainty little finger to achieve it. They only use faith, and it is a faith only in part of the word of the Lord for their faith does not require any action. Biblical faith is a faith that makes the laws and God so dependable they can be acted on, but they have been made so perfect, magically, that they need not act. They only need to strut through life telling people how wonderful they are and Christ simply did everything, they didn't have to participate. They eliminated any law through Christ, so nothing stands in the way of that participation in Christ.
E
QUOTED:
By the way, where you wrote “15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.” ….the word “offsprings” is not a correct word, and “offspring” is singular as well as plural in English. It is important to not use erroneous words and phrases when trying to teach someone what Almighty God has said in His Word.
END QUOTE...........
Not exactly sure what you are saying here............but the "promise" was to ALL of Abrams offspring........
That may be what you are saying, not sure, but hope so............for even the Gentiles become an "heir to the promise" by adoption.
By the way, where you wrote “15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.” ….the word “offsprings” is not a correct word, and “offspring” is singular as well as plural in English. It is important to not use erroneous words and phrases when trying to teach someone what Almighty God has said in His Word.
END QUOTE...........
Not exactly sure what you are saying here............but the "promise" was to ALL of Abrams offspring........
That may be what you are saying, not sure, but hope so............for even the Gentiles become an "heir to the promise" by adoption.
E
E G If you will remember, I put you on ignore. I can see that you posted something, but I'm not reading it. May God Bless You, and have a nice day.
I will still expose your legalistic view.
You dont have to answer (you never did anyway) So it does not matter, What matters is that everyone else sees your hypocracy and lies.
E
Red.
No one is teaching licentiousness. How can you sit there and read what people write and continue to claim that?
It was asked many times. (and yet unanswered) If we are looking toward the spirit. How can we sin? If we are loving our neighbor. how can we sin against them? If we are loving God. How can we sin against him?
Your example did not make sense.
The cup has not fulfilled its purpose until the coffe has been drink. But then it must be used again so it really has never fulfilled its purpose.
No one is teaching licentiousness. How can you sit there and read what people write and continue to claim that?
It was asked many times. (and yet unanswered) If we are looking toward the spirit. How can we sin? If we are loving our neighbor. how can we sin against them? If we are loving God. How can we sin against him?
Your example did not make sense.
The cup has not fulfilled its purpose until the coffe has been drink. But then it must be used again so it really has never fulfilled its purpose.
Romans 9:6-9 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Hebrew names mean attributes of character when God changes names. We can see this with Abram to Abraham, Simon to Peter, Jacob to Israel, and in Sarai to Sarah. We can also understand even better when Jesus exhorts us to ask anything in His name, and then He will hear, meaning within the confines of all of His character. We can also understand better the new name that we will receive as prophesied in Revelation.
Revelation 2:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
There is good reason investigate the new name of Sarah that God gave to Sarai.
Genesis 17:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
8297=Sarai= dominative, and maintainer, saw-rah-*ee. “Yad” is the 10[SUP]th[/SUP] letter in the Hebrew alphabet, pronounced “*ee.” It represents a hard working person that gives, and maintains recourses, describing “Sarai” as a good wife, mindful of Abram’s needs. The priority of “works.”
8283=Sarah=to prevail, to be strong and free, a mistress, as a lady princess, a queen, saw-rah. If you will notice, the “*ee” no longer applies to the new name that God gave to Sarah. “**Hey” is the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] letter in the Hebrew alphabet, pronounced “**ah” (as in halleluiah). It represents revelation of being given something obvious, as in this case a “blessing” as the priority.
Some people have had questions about a woman able to conceive a child is a confirmation of salvation. I would heartily disagree with that thought because it comes from what I would describe as a person that listened to another person and not to the Word of God. I that case it is obvious that the Old Testament is seen with carnal eyes, and not by teh Spirit of God. We should direct our attention to the understanding that it has everything to do with the New Testament church, having a new name to conceive people into a new birth via Jesus Christ. We should also incorporate the concept of spiritual circumcision of the heart, written in the Mosaic Law. These things have everything to do with the New Testament church that is the bride of Christ. Paul claims this concept as a “mystery”. See Ephesians 5:21-33
Praying in the name of Jesus is not just mouthing the phrase “In Jesus name amen.” If it comes out of our mouth as a repetitious habit, it means absolutely nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Hebrew names mean attributes of character when God changes names. We can see this with Abram to Abraham, Simon to Peter, Jacob to Israel, and in Sarai to Sarah. We can also understand even better when Jesus exhorts us to ask anything in His name, and then He will hear, meaning within the confines of all of His character. We can also understand better the new name that we will receive as prophesied in Revelation.
Revelation 2:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
There is good reason investigate the new name of Sarah that God gave to Sarai.
Genesis 17:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
8297=Sarai= dominative, and maintainer, saw-rah-*ee. “Yad” is the 10[SUP]th[/SUP] letter in the Hebrew alphabet, pronounced “*ee.” It represents a hard working person that gives, and maintains recourses, describing “Sarai” as a good wife, mindful of Abram’s needs. The priority of “works.”
8283=Sarah=to prevail, to be strong and free, a mistress, as a lady princess, a queen, saw-rah. If you will notice, the “*ee” no longer applies to the new name that God gave to Sarah. “**Hey” is the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] letter in the Hebrew alphabet, pronounced “**ah” (as in halleluiah). It represents revelation of being given something obvious, as in this case a “blessing” as the priority.
Some people have had questions about a woman able to conceive a child is a confirmation of salvation. I would heartily disagree with that thought because it comes from what I would describe as a person that listened to another person and not to the Word of God. I that case it is obvious that the Old Testament is seen with carnal eyes, and not by teh Spirit of God. We should direct our attention to the understanding that it has everything to do with the New Testament church, having a new name to conceive people into a new birth via Jesus Christ. We should also incorporate the concept of spiritual circumcision of the heart, written in the Mosaic Law. These things have everything to do with the New Testament church that is the bride of Christ. Paul claims this concept as a “mystery”. See Ephesians 5:21-33
Praying in the name of Jesus is not just mouthing the phrase “In Jesus name amen.” If it comes out of our mouth as a repetitious habit, it means absolutely nothing.
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So now that you have all this knowing inside of you, and you are going to grow, what kind of food are you giving yourself to grow on? You have dumped the word you say for Christ got rid of it, and your body still is part flesh along with the spirit you have achieved through Christ, just what kind of food are you going to put in you for growth? Your spirit in Christ still has the fleshly body to contend with, but you decided to toss out any way to handle that. Your spirit is going to starve to death and all you will be left with is your pride in yourself, telling us how saintly you are and how God doesn't see any of your flesh.
E
1. I am not going to feed on the food which can not fill me, and can only kill me (the law)
2. I am going to feed on the food which can truly feed me. The ones that shows me, God made me for a reason. He gave me people to serve. What does god want me to do to serve them.
lol. How did I do that?
The law handles sin one way, DEATH (For cursed is the one who does not follow ALL words written in this law.)
why would I want to feed my flesh with what can only kill me? When I can feed it with what gives me life. And shows me HOW to LOVE..
2. I am going to feed on the food which can truly feed me. The ones that shows me, God made me for a reason. He gave me people to serve. What does god want me to do to serve them.
lol. How did I do that?
The law handles sin one way, DEATH (For cursed is the one who does not follow ALL words written in this law.)
why would I want to feed my flesh with what can only kill me? When I can feed it with what gives me life. And shows me HOW to LOVE..
There is purpose in example, and it is revealed by God through Paul, referring to the law that led to the Passover and escape from the captivity of Egypt representing the world's values. If a person is hard hearted, could it be that God has done this because of the nature that this individual portrays? I think Paul had great insight to the attributes of God when he said in Romans 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"
And the seed takes root for a time, and then withers and dies in the stony ground.
Romans 9:13-15 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Exodus 33:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Romans 9:16-24 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Exodus 9:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.
Romans 9:18-20 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Isaiah 29:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16[/SUP]Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Romans 9:21-24 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (Paul mentions vessels for temple worship made by hands, and he gives us insight to the Spiritual meaning of the physical)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
And the seed takes root for a time, and then withers and dies in the stony ground.
Romans 9:13-15 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Exodus 33:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Romans 9:16-24 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Exodus 9:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth.
Romans 9:18-20 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Isaiah 29:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16[/SUP]Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Romans 9:21-24 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (Paul mentions vessels for temple worship made by hands, and he gives us insight to the Spiritual meaning of the physical)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?